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Amplifier Comparison SpeakerPower SP2-12000 and Powersoft K20-DSP-Aesop

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Whole new SP website today.

I think new is slightly charitable frankly! It remains a pretty terrible circa 2000 website.

 

What is the difference between the DP and HT models? Is it just that HT means the different front end? Is it a DSP? Any impact on performance (eg rolloff)? I couldn't see specifics on that.

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I think new is slightly charitable frankly! It remains a pretty terrible circa 2000 website.

 

What is the difference between the DP and HT models? Is it just that HT means the different front end? Is it a DSP? Any impact on performance (eg rolloff)? I couldn't see specifics on that.

 

The "HT" version looks to have typical controls you'd find on a consumer grade sub amp.  Things like gain, crossover, delay, etc.

 

On the "DP" version I think you're limited to just gain knobs for each channel. 

 

EDIT:  The "HT" version also has the standard 15A plug and RCA inputs.  Pictures of each here:

 

http://www.speakerpower.net/rack-mount-models.html

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And guess who I had lunch with on Friday to find out all about the new gear.  Definitely excited by the new offerings and even better since he has introduced the HT series, which are less expensive than the Pro series.

post-2747-0-69621800-1458101106_thumb.jpg

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he has introduced the HT series, which are less expensive than the Pro series.

 

? The HT is $50 more according to http://www.speakerpower.net/order.html

 

I don't really understand the point of the different connections on the HT model nor the point of the serial connection on the DP model. The price difference is essentially nil so it seems to have complicated the line up for no obvious reason as far as I can see.

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Looks like you are correct in relation to the rack mount versions.  However, the HT version of the plate amps is cheaper than the pro version, which is what I use along with Reaction, JTR, Seaton, PSA, etc.  So there is definitely an advantage there.

 

SpeakerPower is primarily a company focused on providing amps to OEMs.  OEMs will have access to the internal DSP, which is where the serial port comes into play.  A non-OEM user will not get access to the internal DSP. 

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I think new is slightly charitable frankly! It remains a pretty terrible circa 2000 website.

 

What is the difference between the DP and HT models? Is it just that HT means the different front end? Is it a DSP? Any impact on performance (eg rolloff)? I couldn't see specifics on that.

Yea but its WAY better than the 1995 web site it replaced! Actually it is a work in progress and more info will be added soooon. 

 

The DP has no DSP, just a dataport connection to the QSC Qsys DSp. The HT has knobs for HT specific functions implemented in the DSP.

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Looks like you are correct in relation to the rack mount versions.  However, the HT version of the plate amps is cheaper than the pro version, which is what I use along with Reaction, JTR, Seaton, PSA, etc.  So there is definitely an advantage there.

 

SpeakerPower is primarily a company focused on providing amps to OEMs.  OEMs will have access to the internal DSP, which is where the serial port comes into play.  A non-OEM user will not get access to the internal DSP. 

Right on all counts. Regarding the price difference, it amazing how many HT features you can add in when you not paying for very heavy and expensive Powercon connectors and such that HT does not care about.

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Yea but its WAY better than the 1995 web site it replaced! Actually it is a work in progress and more info will be added soooon.

 

The DP has no DSP, just a dataport connection to the QSC Qsys DSp. The HT has knobs for HT specific functions implemented in the DSP.

Progress is good :)

 

Is there any (performance) downside to the DSP or is it identical to the DP? I guess that means is the HT implemented on the same platform but with some dials that provide a fixed set of functions?

 

Similarly does the dataport connection mean anyone buying a DP model has access to those functions? IIRC the dsp used to be the OEM only bit.

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Hi Brian,

 

Can you explain what's going on in this picture:
3163684_orig.jpg

Why are there four sets of amplified outputs for a 2 channel amp?  Or is this a 4 channel amp?

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Hi Brian,

 

Can you explain what's going on in this picture:

3163684_orig.jpg

Why are there four sets of amplified outputs for a 2 channel amp?  Or is this a 4 channel amp?

 

Depending on the amplification modules used, the rack mount amps can be configured to handle many more channels than even 4.  For an 8,000w or 12.000w amp, it would be dual channels using the SpeakerPower designed modules providing 2 x 4,000w (120V at 2 ohm) or 2 x 6000w (240V at 2 ohm).  If it used the smaller ICE modules, it could be configured with multiple channels of 350w or 700w modules.  Hopefully there will even be a more powerful module than 700w available soon.  I definitely look forward to the options. :)

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Josh, I'm seriously jealous of the power cord that came with your SP2-12K...

 

My first SP2-12K came with a 14/3 cable with a NEMA-15 plug (15A)...

 

My second SP2-12K I just received today came with another 14/3 cable, but this time with the L6-20 (20A)...

 

I just ordered another Tripp Lite L6-30 10AWG cable to replace the 14awg like I did with the first amp.

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Hey man what can I say?

 

I'm glad Brian is expanding his lineup and is able to drop prices a little as well. The amp I have is a loaner, although I do have a need for another ballsy amp for the band space so I'll probably end up buying it. I can see why he is offering the HT oriented models but I'll stick with balanced connections, speakons and a powercon cable.

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I admit that I'm also sad to see the Speakon connectors go, and the DSP features are throw away to me.  But I realize not everyone feels this way.  Actually, the delay knob will be an excellent feature for more typical home users who don't have or want the complexity of an outboard DSP unit.

 

The drop in price is a big plus to me because what I am contemplating will require a lot of different amps.  Now what I'd really like to see is a single channel plate amp to fill the gap between the SP1-700 and the SP1-2400.  It appears there is a 2 channel plate amp available with 2 X 700W, the SP2-1400, but unless it's bridgeable or else one can safely run one channel of each voice coil in a DVC driver, it's not really useful to me.  Its footprint is also too big for the subs I'm planning.  Haha!

Edited by SME

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I admit that I'm also sad to see the Speakon connectors go, and the DSP features are throw away to me.  But I realize not everyone feels this way.  Actually, the delay knob will be an excellent feature for more typical home users who don't have or want the complexity of an outboard DSP unit.

 

The drop in price is a big plus to me because what I am contemplating will require a lot of different amps.  Now what I'd really like to see is a single channel plate amp to fill the gap between the SP1-700 and the SP1-2400.  It appears there is a 2 channel plate amp available with 2 X 700W, the SP2-1400, but unless it's bridgeable or else one can safely run one channel of each voice coil in a DVC driver, it's not really useful to me.  Its footprint is also too big for the subs I'm planning.  Haha!

 

The SP2-1400 is not bridgeable but can run a dual voice coil driver with one 700W amp per coil. The footprint is about 11 x 11". Your cabinet is smaller than that? What dimensions would fit?

 

Later this year I will have a 1200W amp with the same feature set. It will probably be the same width as the SP1-700; 7.2" and taller, about 14" vs 10.75"

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The SP2-1400 is not bridgeable but can run a dual voice coil driver with one 700W amp per coil. The footprint is about 11 x 11". Your cabinet is smaller than that? What dimensions would fit?

 

Later this year I will have a 1200W amp with the same feature set. It will probably be the same width as the SP1-700; 7.2" and taller, about 14" vs 10.75"

 

Thanks for the reply!  I'm thinking of building a very shallow enclosure only 9" or so deep for a 15" driver.  The purpose is to squeeze it between the rear wall and sofa.  The face opposite the driver can't accommodate the amp because of the extra clearance needed for cables and connections.  So I have to install the amp on the side, which is only 9" wide.  The bigger, taller, but narrower amps work fine.

 

Will that 1200W amp be rated at 1200W into 4 ohm?  Or will that be a 2 ohm rating?  I should probably not base my design on an amp that isn't on the market yet, but this 1200W amp sounds like a perfect fit.

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Back on this topic...I'm resurrecting this thread as there is some new data. I recently tested the RF T3S2-19 driver in the 4.5ft sealed cab and also the 24" cube dual 21-Ipal sealed cab both with half of the SP2-12000, so effectively the 6000w SP1-6000 Torpedo plate into 2ohm nominal. I thought it would be good to see what type of headroom and performance these could provide as an "active" type system with one of the most powerful plate amplifiers on the market similar to what could be sold as a high end consumer turn key sealed system. Both can be compared to the tests last year with the K20.

 

The short of it is that a SP-6000 produces more sustained power into impedances roughly 2 to 3 ohms or lower than the bridged K20. The K20 isn't really rated into bridged loadings lower than 4ohms of course but it operates decently just with reduced power limitations. The max long term testing shows the difference in the sustained power well. The 6000 amp was run all of the way until the clip light was heavily illuminated throughout the sweep into both systems. The burst testing also showed some differences. The K20 did not start to show advantage over the single 6000 amp into these loads until the shorter duration bursts higher in frequency or in the areas where the impedance was high. As previously shown the Speakerpower / Torpedo amps produce much more sustained power into low impedance loads. They can also short term burst a similar amount or more into low frequencies and low impedances than the K series. The K10/K20 amps have a ton of voltage potential and will operate into low impedances but they really perform their best into 4ohm stereo/8ohm bridged or higher where they can use the high voltage rails to their potential and not be current limited as much.

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Excellent stuff, Josh!

 

It's fun to start seeing one system compared to itself with different amps. Sometimes the results can make one system look like something entirely different! The T3 system, for example. The original test makes it look like a HE uber woofer will screaming top end and drooping low end. The new test makes it look like a smoother 'subwoofer' type response. (I know there is a lot more to it than that, just keeping it simple)

 

Very cool. Wonder how the MAUL will graph out with the SP amps. If you do that one too, I mean.

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FWIW, the spec sheet on the SP1-6k and SP2-12k call out the max voltage (no current) as 126V.  Where impedance drops low enough, this maximum will droop a bit.  At 2 ohm, rated power of 6 kW is achieved with 109.5 V.  I think the long-term output compression magnitude plot illustrates current limiting in the SP2-12k.

 

Any idea why the "Basic Response" measurements for the T3S2-19 are about 1.5 dB higher across the board using the SP1-6k vs. the K20?  Is this just due to variation in environmental parameters or other random variation?  It would be good to know this because many of the results have the SP1-6k beating the K20 by about 1.5-2 dB.  If it's a margin of error thing, than we can't really say that the SP1-6k is really winning anywhere in these measurements.  Not that tying the K20 for low frequency performance at a fraction of the price is somehow a failure for the SP1-6k.

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I find it amazing that such power can be got out of amps in such little boxes   :blink:

 

If I had the cash then I would probably pick one up - mainly because my heavy-iron CV5000 is driving me slowly insane with fan noise, and the fact that I'm not looking forward to having to move house with it :lol: lol

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FWIW, the spec sheet on the SP1-6k and SP2-12k call out the max voltage (no current) as 126V.  Where impedance drops low enough, this maximum will droop a bit.  At 2 ohm, rated power of 6 kW is achieved with 109.5 V.  I think the long-term output compression magnitude plot illustrates current limiting in the SP2-12k.

 

Any idea why the "Basic Response" measurements for the T3S2-19 are about 1.5 dB higher across the board using the SP1-6k vs. the K20?  Is this just due to variation in environmental parameters or other random variation?  It would be good to know this because many of the results have the SP1-6k beating the K20 by about 1.5-2 dB.  If it's a margin of error thing, than we can't really say that the SP1-6k is really winning anywhere in these measurements.  Not that tying the K20 for low frequency performance at a fraction of the price is somehow a failure for the SP1-6k.

 

That sounds right for the SP2-12K voltages. I see that the specs say 126v maximum with no load but 2000w rating into 8 ohms requires 126.5v. I thought that it may be a bit higher than this something around 135-150v short term. Guess not.

 

Good question. I've been scratching my head over this. There is some margin for error for sure in the atmospheric conditions, calibrator  and actual voltage applied. I'd say +/-0.5dB sounds realistic. The weather was different on the test days. I had thought that perhaps the older test was on a hotter day but I looked at it and the opposite was true. The impedance curve suggests that the suspension of the driver has loosened up and broken in significantly. That's unsurprising due to the first test being on a fresh basically unused driver. I'd only done a free air break in at Fs to check for excursion noise, proper functioning etc and then pulled parameters and impedance prior to testing it. It has spent the last 11 months or so in the back of my Jeep run off a PDX.1000 after the first high power test so it has been used a lot more by now. A loosening of the suspension could account for some increase in the bass sensitivity of possibly 1dB down at 10Hz. That's part of it and the rest is likely 0.5db of voltage or calibration error and atmospheric conditions.

 

Another thing I remembered is that the K20 and SP-12000 I have on hand have differing polarities. Look at the notch in the original measurement up near 180Hz which has now turned into a hump in response on the SP amp measurement. I find that even more baffling than the sensitivity increase and it is related to the differing polarity I think.

 

If you look at the 21-Ipal retest the sensitivity there is almost bang on but we still see some odd reversals of notches and humps in the response.

 

As far as the amp comparison made...I would definitely not go so far as to equate a concrete SPL difference to it but I think the general trend still shows through especially when considering the older same day tests in my room conducted before. The 6000 module produces more sustained LF power into low impedances and the K20 does better with brief dynamic signals and higher impedances. I think that general statement holds from looking at the max long term, CEA-2010 and max output bursts. The maximum burst output (not the passing distortion limited results) is pretty telling in that regard. The shifting down of the impedance peak increases the LF efficiency and we appear to see an increase in CEA-2010 burst output below 25Hz for both systems due to reduced distortion but no increase or less of an increase in the case of the T3 in the maximum burst output in the deep bass.

 

I need to retest with both amps on the same day to eliminate some of this error potential but that poses issues of its own.

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I find it amazing that such power can be got out of amps in such little boxes   :blink:

 

If I had the cash then I would probably pick one up - mainly because my heavy-iron CV5000 is driving me slowly insane with fan noise, and the fact that I'm not looking forward to having to move house with it :lol: lol

 

I'm using two of these: https://www.amazon.com/Noctua-NF-F12-PWM-Cooling-Fan/dp/B00650P2ZC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1473874503&sr=8-1&keywords=noctua+120mm

 

EDIT: WHOOPS! It was actually these ones, MemX. Hope you didn't order just yet.

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BEZKX8Y/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

HUUUUGGGGEEE drop is fan noise.

 

Will obviously not cool as well as the stock fans though.

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