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Condundrum - Keep what I have or upgrade?


EndersShadow

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Room gain will help for sure but with just one or two 15's not enough to warrant changing your driver. Like I said between your budget, which of course everyone has, and your size limitations you're screwed. Putting the HST in the same cab would just get you more ouput which might help but you said you already shake things upstairs so not sure that would be useful. IF you can do a bigger box with a tune of 17-18hz that would probably be a good step up but other then that I think all the options you have would be lateral. Honestly, I'd wait till the wife gave approval for two and then decide what to get.

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Room gain will help for sure but with just one or two 15's not enough to warrant changing your driver. Like I said between your budget, which of course everyone has, and your size limitations you're screwed. Putting the HST in the same cab would just get you more ouput which might help but you said you already shake things upstairs so not sure that would be useful. IF you can do a bigger box with a tune of 17-18hz that would probably be a good step up but other then that I think all the options you have would be lateral. Honestly, I'd wait till the wife gave approval for two and then decide what to get.

I figured going from ported to sealed would reduce some output higher up but below port tune (21hz) net me some decent gains which is kinda what I was looking for....

 

My mains do feature a 8" driver and they are rated to dig deep. So I could make up some of that loss with the mains. Right now my AVR is the limiting factor since its auto-calibration just isn't up to snuff compared to most stuff.

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Right around the port tune and a couple hz below it the ported will win by around 6db or so but at 30hz and up they should be equal or close enough not to notice a difference. Below 18hz or so yes the sealed will have more output but not enough to warrant the transition. On a one to one basis yes sealed goes lower than ported but what no one ever mentions is at what level. A single 15 simply will simply not move enough air for you to notice. Unless your room is small which it is not. I love sealed subs. I'll never use ported again in any room, but in your case you're looking for lower output which will be too low for you to notice unless it's nearfield. 

 

Look at PSA, RA, and SVS subs and you'll see that the ported subs still have more output even below tune till almost 10hz. You need a good bit of SPL to feel below 15hz and one sealed sub will simply not do it. That's why I suggest sticking with what you have till your wife says get what you want and then explore your options.

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No way to put a sub behind that recliner? You could fit a pretty good sized DO sub where that end table is in the corner by the hallway as well. The sub would still function well as a table. You could put a nice walnut or cherry top on it.

 

Basically when space is limited you need tons of excursion and a lot of amplifier to make some of it back. If you could cram a DO 15 where that end table is and another where your current sub is I think you'd be pretty well set.

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No way to put a sub behind that recliner? You could fit a pretty good sized DO sub where that end table is in the corner by the hallway as well. The sub would still function well as a table. You could put a nice walnut or cherry top on it.

 

Basically when space is limited you need tons of excursion and a lot of amplifier to make some of it back. If you could cram a DO 15 where that end table is and another where your current sub is I think you'd be pretty well set.

 

The recliner is a no go for sure.  The end table is something I may have a go at getting again as the one we have is just an endtable, as far as I know there is no real special significance to it...

 

However 2 DO HST-15's + amp(s) are way beyond my budget.  Your talking 1800 in drivers alone, and not to mention I'd need to keep them off the wall a bit and away from furniture since each one can move 4".  Then add in a 2 year old + a soon to be newborn and your adding a high likelyhood of poking drivers. 

 

At max I think I'd be pushing it to get 2 3-4 cubic foot sealed 15 or 18" drivers in my setup.  One to replace the end table, one in the current location I'm using.  Otherwise I could maybe go DO in the same location my current sub is, but again then I'd be talking about opportunities to poke drivers, or I'd have to have one downfire and another fire into the ceiling which would look weird.

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Ok so I'm now debating going for 2 HST-15's.... I'm going to try and buy both and then build the first, and then the second (to replace the end table).

 

My budget CANNOT reach to 4 (2 x DO) so thats not an option really.  And I'm thinking that I should go with 2 independent subs rather than one DO sub (box size cant change so 2 x 3 cubic feet trumps 1 x 3 cubic feet).  That way I can help even out the response, though I'm sure SPL wise I will pay for the difference with a few less db, which I am honestly fine with (at least my head says that should be ok)....

 

What I'm thinking is to build 2 3 cubic foot sealed downfiring boxes.  I'm not sure if I need them to be 1.5" thick or can just do 3/4 thick and a double baffle..... My HOPE is that I can do that and then just buy 2 DIYSoundGroup 3 cubic foot boxes because then all the work and cutting is done for me.  They I just need to finish one to look like an endtable.  Additionally one of my co-workers husbands is a cabinet maker, so I might be able to have him make me 2 boxes and help me finish the one to look like an end table.  But at 90 bucks shipped for a pre-made enclosure, its hard to beat that price.

 

I also talked to Crown about their XLS amps and the subsonic/highpass filter I've been reading about.  They told me there is a rolloff starting at 20hz that is a 18db per octave.  They also mentioned this is kinda a industry standard for pro amps.... So I now have a couple questions

 

1. Am I correct in thinking this means the output RMS wise is down 18db from 20hz to 10hz?  If so how would I model that in WinISD, or do I even need to.

2. Should I just try to instead of a pro-amp, secure another Dayton SA1000 amp and run one sub per amp (1000 watts @ 4 ohms)?

 

And lastly I have some concerns about the HST driver in a sealed box.  Do I need to worry about them walking around on me?  My thought was to install feet of some sort that can then take a set of spikes (Dayton DSS3) to couple it to the floor.  Here is what I am thinking about but I want some thoughts.

 

I am going to make these downfiring.  My thought process is to build some sort of hollow section at the top, into which I will put plastic ziploc bags filled with play sand.  This top section will be totally enclosed and glued/sealed to make sure nothing leaks, but it will add a significant amount of mass to the enclosure to make sure it wont move around.  Then another piece of MDF will go over the top of it to close it off.  I figure about a 1 or 2" section filled with sand should do a very good job at making sure the enclosure doesnt bounce.

 

1. It this a good idea, have you seen it done before (and links to it please)?

2. Do I need to add additional mass?

 

And my last thought which I'm 90% going to go with is to wire the enclosures to accept both bananna/spade connections AND speak-on.  My main question is I see there is a 2 pin and a 4 pin chassic connector... which should I use and why?  Additionally can I tie those in line with the RCA connections as well or do I need to run them independent of the RCA connections?

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  • 1 month later...

Ok, so I've been looking long and hard and long and hard, and long and hard on the HT-18 v HST-15.  Here is what I am thinking.

 

The HT-18 while nice and a better driver that can dig deeper than my existing HT-15 in a ported box, simply doesn't to ENOUGH do really justify buying just one, so I'd need 2 at least.  Now duals give me a VERY nice output in WinISD, but compared to the HST-15 they are lacking.

 

So I'm likely just going to buy the BEST driver I can which is the HST-15.  I looked at the HST-18 and its got more SPL up high buy not really much down low than the 15".  Also I'd need some SERIOUS power for the 18 and I cant get there just now.  The 18 is also 100 more so for duals I'd be 200 over what I wanted to spend anyway. 

 

The HST-15 (wired @ 4 ohms) in a 3 cubic foot box with 800 watts of power from my Dayton SA-1000 with the bass boost on (Q=1.4 +3db @ 25 hz) and another boost using the PEQ (Q = 1 +6 db @ 18hz) gives me a REALLY nice boost, and is a MUCH better SPL over my current sub once you hit 20hz (~10db) and once you go above 20hz there is still a VERY nice increase in headroom.  Additionally is WinISD is to be believed I've almost maxed out the XMax of the drivers 35mm of travel.  I know there is more there, but you also need more wattage than I can give to get there....

 

But I'm open to thoughts on if the HST-18 is the better option, its just that I'm barely tickling the driver at 1000 watts excursion wise and at some point I cant pull any more power from my wall, and I think the HST-18 would bring me to that point lol...

 

Now the Dayton amp is a stop-gap as I will be looking for a nicely priced Crest Pro-Lite DSP 5.0.  It provides AMPLE headroom for that driver at 4 ohms as I'd prefer to not wire it for a 2 ohm load so the amp isn't super taxed.  The Crest will also allow me to run DUALS as well, however I may need a MiniDSP 2x4 balanced if the Crest PEQ doesnt do enough for me. 

 

Then at some point in the future I will look at adding another HST-15 as an endtable...

 

Thoughts?  Should I just go big and get the HST-18 over the 15?

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The only real reason to get the HST15 over the HST18 is because of size. If you have a super tight space restriction then opt for the 15. If you can afford (financially and space) the HST18 then get it as it does everything as good as the 15 but with more output across the board.

 

Its not "super" tight space wise as it is the difference between a 3 cubic foot box and a 4 cubic foot box as compared to my 4 cubic foot ported box I have now.  The issue as mentioned is the financial part of coming up with the extra 100 bucks......

 

Right now here is how WinISD shows my room.  I only graphed up to 300hz for now and I'm working on dialing in those nasty peaks above 100hz...

 

As you can see the sub response is right on point with what it should be at the main listening position, but being ported it drops like a rock below 21hz (port tune).  The HST should allow me to bring that up considerably....

 

351F7F31-3479-419C-94B0-8D82FF738726.jpg

 

Here are some graphs of the three.  Existing sub in Green, HST-15 in Blue, HT-18 in Orange... HST-18 not graphed but its just got more above 20hz than the HST-15.

 

SPL

F00456A8-7355-4668-B692-28CCA3E1F354.png

 

Excursion

A05D2D67-CE7F-4D63-ADC1-A9A531730D76.png

 

Amp load

41BF8F49-BC49-4A16-AD56-2B4FCA2A9E71.jpg

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If you can fit it the 18 is the right choice IMO. Yes it takes a lot more power to utilize all of its excursion potential but if you aren't running it at maximum it'll be nice and clean with lower distortion than the 15 and very safe with no chance of bottoming. The extra capability will be there if you ever get a bigger amp down the road.

 

My 2 cents.

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If you can fit it the 18 is the right choice IMO. Yes it takes a lot more power to utilize all of its excursion potential but if you aren't running it at maximum it'll be nice and clean with lower distortion than the 15 and very safe with no chance of bottoming. The extra capability will be there if you ever get a bigger amp down the road.

My 2 cents.

That's a very good point. However I'm honestly not sure I will ever run the HST-15 at full volume to begin with, I'm simply modeling it with the most my amp can give it.

 

However as mentioned it would provide piece of mind know I can't bottom the driver before I'd clip the amp.....

 

Dang it guys lol... I walked back from the edge and now I'm back at it about to jump off lol...

 

Also didn't realize we you are in KY. I drive through their often on my way to Chattanooga to visit family.

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