Bossobass Mini GTG Thread

[BeastAudio]

There is an actual DJ or artist of some sort that calls himself martyparty. He came through asheville a while back apparently but I didn't know about it. I would have gone just for the name

[Electrodynamic]

I don't think diyspeakerguy was saying Nick's driver's can't perform. He didn't like that Nick declared the HS24 the highest displacement sub in the world. He cited the jackhammer as being more Vd. There's also the Fostex FW800HS and maybe more, I dunno. But I didn't really follow along, nor do I care. When it comes to buying subs I just buy the one that fits my needs, not what a manufacturer's says about it.

 

Have you seen the thread about the 24? Maybe it's been cleaned up after Beast and DIY got into it one night.

 

The Fostex is no where near the same displacement as the HS-24. Published Sd and Xmax of the two are: Fostex 32"= 923450 vs SI 24" = 7453033. But even then, someone snooped around and saw a few words that got their panties in a twist and proceeded to troll the bejesus out of a particular driver because there is one non-verified example in the world that takes a nuclear power plant to drive and an engine hoist to lift. Or he's just pissy because his LMS's aren't the big boy on the block anymore. Either way I found his posts to be pretty funny - it takes a lot of dedication, and time, to troll that hard.

 

On the note of me being on AVS only for the HT's - I've been a member of AVS for a long time...much longer than the HT series has been out. That forum used to be decent but lately the amount of trolling going on over anything that's not a Marty Sub is pretty intense and severely negative. Fortunately for me I've decided to stay off that forum and let the negative attitude continue without me seeing it. I've got better things to do with my time like being around my 3 year old son, building kick-ass subwoofers, racing enduro-karts, fishing, etc. All of the latter are much better than dealing with choice members on AVS. 

[BeastAudio]

That's why I check the DIY section about once a month...otherwise I have my subscribed threads of member's I know and respect, including most of the guys here....and I stick to those almost exclusively now. 

[Bossobass Dave]

Wow! That looks like a great time for all. You guys on the east coast have all the fun.

 

 

Ok, that looks ridiculously awesome. Far as I can tell in the video, that surround looks really well-behaved; I'd not have expected that. The thing that irks me about drivers with the parabolic surrounds like the LMS-U is that the surround seems to lag behind the cone's movement and I would've expected that huge honkin' thing to be even more out of phase in movement, but that looks good in slow-mo. How'd it look in person?

 

 

 

 

 

What would those be called anyways? With the Ravens and the Raptors, would these then be the Teratorns? (In keeping with Bosso's bird names and the Pelagornis sandersi was found in the Carolinas, afterall.)

 

Of course, recreating a gathering like this...

 

 

with those might end up looking more like this.

 

 

Thanks for the great post and yes... speaking for myself... it was indeed a great time.

 

I've been working on a new design for 8 months, off and on, strictly for the 18" - 24" monster drivers. Nick may very well be the first to sport one and it will be a memorable demo.

 

The cylinder approach has merit, but in our extremely extensive WAF tests, there is a 5 cubic foot limit, beyond which the thumbs quickly begin to point down. A modified box version can be larger with less height. There is a tradeoff of larger footprint for less height.

 

This one will be another looker in a long line of subwoofers that just look cool.

 

Stay tuned...

[Bossobass Dave]

I redid the animated excursion gif of the hst-15 with new frames from one of the vids of HULK:

 

 

That's about the coolest excursion animation of all time.

[lukeamdman]

I’ll start off by saying my wife gets on my case all the time for that “serious” expression that seems to be on my face all the time.  People frequently think I’m angry or grouchy…I just need to smile more!! 

 

It was great having such a knowledgeable crowd there.  I always learn a ton at these things, and this was no exception. 

 

The GTG was awesome, simple as that.  I don’t think I even gave Dave a weeks’ notice, and in just a few days he managed to double the subs and amps in his system…

 

The duo of Raptor III systems exceeded my expectations, and those A14K amps are incredible.  The cheap Sanway “clones” I’ve had in the past were power houses, so it’s no surprise that ones with more capacitance/bigger power supply/better cooling would be even better.  I was really surprised we didn’t trip a breaker with two of those on a single 30A 120v circuit!  The fit/finish of the subs is excellent and far beyond anything I’ve ever built.  I simply make huge and ugly boxes and slap duratex on them, the complete opposite of these subs!

 

The excursion capability on those HST-15s is insane.  We witnessed what looked to be 4” of peak-to-peak excursion.  I’ve seen the LMS 5400 driven to xmech many times, and these were moving farther.   What a beast of a driver.   

 

I finally see what everyone is talking about with the single digit stuff, BUT, I still maintain that the room, mostly whether you’re on a concrete floor or not, is still a major factor in whether that’s worth chasing.  Bottom line, a concrete floor will never resonate at 7hz like Dave’s floor does, and without that tactile feedback for low frequencies from the floor, it can be a completely different experience even with the same set of subs at the same SPL levels.

 

I experienced single digits at Brandon’s place while on a concrete floor, and also in my theater with quad sealed LMS 5400 subs in the past, and hands down Dave’s theater in a loft on a suspended floor had WAY more tactile feel below 10hz.  It’s not even close. 

 

I maintain that if I had Dave’s room, I’d have sealed subs too.  There’s no way I’d go another route that would remove that tactile response down low.   However, for my room, I think I’ve made the right choice.  Without the resonating floor, I’ve traded the low end response where it doesn’t matter with higher efficiency and SPL from 15hz and up. 

 

I really couldn’t find any shortcoming with Dave’s subs.  Plenty of SPL with great dynamics combined with low distortion.  Hard to do any better than that, bravo!

 

I’m sure I’ll make it out there again.  Thanks for such a warm welcome!

[dominguez1]

Damn...wish I was there to witness the Dave's Jurrasic HT...raptors running wild with unbridled energy, swallowing any doubts along their rampage, and ripping the single digits. Throw in some driver porn to make it a perfect night!!!

 

Great stuff guys!!!

 

I need me some raptors................

[Diogenes]

Take that rendering and cut the enclosure heights in half or even make them 1/4 as tall. You don't have to shoot for a perfect Qtc alignment when you have EQ. If the driver is capable of accepting the boost from an EQ you can use a smaller enclosure and get the desired results. My DO HS-24 enclosures will not be that tall by any means. And being 24" drivers the sonotube is going to have to be at least 28" or 30" in diameter so the volume will be here. 7 to 8 ft^3 per driver is all I need. 

 

PS: Nice name for the subwoofer system. 

 

I'll admit, they would be a bit tall if you wanted to set a drink down on the glass top.    Besides, why settle for four 24"s when you can stack them Raptor system style and get eight?   That particular rendering assumes 28" sonotube so they'd still fit through standard indoor doors without tearing the frame out, but I wasn't exactly trying for realistic in something drawn up in a few minutes. All you need and power to burn. That's going to be awesome. Thanks, a sub with a 24" frame receiving the name of a bird with a 24' wingspan seemed appropriate.

 

 

I think you guys are just paying attention to threads and posters that I can actively ignore without using the ignore feature.

 

There's an "Ignore" feature? Wish I had known that. It'd only take about a half-dozen names on such a list to make the DIY section there moderately tolerable again. Of course, there'd be a huge decrease in traffic visible to me if I did that.

 

I don't think diyspeakerguy was saying Nick's driver's can't perform. He didn't like that Nick declared the HS24 the highest displacement sub in the world. He cited the jackhammer as being more Vd. There's also the Fostex FW800HS and maybe more, I dunno. But I didn't really follow along, nor do I care. When it comes to buying subs I just buy the one that fits my needs, not what a manufacturer's says about it.

 

 

I'm just going to say that if you look around, you'll see that this is pretty much his schtick. He bounces around forum to forum doing everything he can to undermine the reputation of a few companies he's taken to hating, which are most always those with any ties to Dan Wiggins and his XBL^2 tech including Stereo Integrity. (Dan must've run over his dog or something to trigger his jihad, but whatever it was, he's still at it as strong as ever.) Over the years, folks who are truly knowledgable about driver design have tried to engage him in discussion making for some really informative threads (mostly over at DIYAudio), but there's no discussion in him. He's slippery about it, almost seeming to engage in debate, but it's unidirectional and all he's done is coopted the jargon and arguments becoming a bit of a driver design philosophaster. That he brought it to AVS with such intensity as of late was a surprise, but he must've been happy to find a new target and a few wishing to be better informed or wish to appear to be more so than the masses latching onto his position.

 

He's one best just to ignore these days. In the past, the discussions he'd trigger used to be good for learning something new, but they've become pretty shrill and one note anymore and besides, "I learned long ago never to wrestle with a pig..."

 

 

Thanks for the great post and yes... speaking for myself... it was indeed a great time.

 

I've been working on a new design for 8 months, off and on, strictly for the 18" - 24" monster drivers. Nick may very well be the first to sport one and it will be a memorable demo.

 

The cylinder approach has merit, but in our extremely extensive WAF tests, there is a 5 cubic foot limit, beyond which the thumbs quickly begin to point down. A modified box version can be larger with less height. There is a tradeoff of larger footprint for less height.

 

This one will be another looker in a long line of subwoofers that just look cool.

 

Stay tuned...

 

Thanks. That will be very cool. It's about time he can enjoy one of his flagship creations. Can't wait to see what you come up with. Those drivers don't even need a box to look cool, to be honest, but a fine cabinet does enhance the effect.

[Electrodynamic]

I'll admit, they would be a bit tall if you wanted to set a drink down on the glass top.    Besides, why settle for four 24"s when you can stack them Raptor system style and get eight?   That particular rendering assumes 28" sonotube so they'd still fit through standard indoor doors without tearing the frame out, but I wasn't exactly trying for realistic in something drawn up in a few minutes. All you need and power to burn. That's going to be awesome. Thanks, a sub with a 24" frame receiving the name of a bird with a 24' wingspan seemed appropriate.

 

 

 

There's an "Ignore" feature? Wish I had known that. It'd only take about a half-dozen names on such a list to make the DIY section there moderately tolerable again. Of course, there'd be a huge decrease in traffic visible to me if I did that.

 

 

 

I'm just going to say that if you look around, you'll see that this is pretty much his schtick. He bounces around forum to forum doing everything he can to undermine the reputation of a few companies he's taken to hating, which are most always those with any ties to Dan Wiggins and his XBL^2 tech including Stereo Integrity. (Dan must've run over his dog or something to trigger his jihad, but whatever it was, he's still at it as strong as ever.) Over the years, folks who are truly knowledgable about driver design have tried to engage him in discussion making for some really informative threads (mostly over at DIYAudio), but there's no discussion in him. He's slippery about it, almost seeming to engage in debate, but it's unidirectional and all he's done is coopted the jargon and arguments becoming a bit of a driver design philosophaster. That he brought it to AVS with such intensity as of late was a surprise, but he must've been happy to find a new target and a few wishing to be better informed or wish to appear to be more so than the masses latching onto his position.

 

He's one best just to ignore these days. In the past, the discussions he'd trigger used to be good for learning something new, but they've become pretty shrill and one note anymore and besides, "I learned long ago never to wrestle with a pig..."

 

 

 

Thanks. That will be very cool. It's about time he can enjoy one of his flagship creations. Can't wait to see what you come up with. Those drivers don't even need a box to look cool, to be honest, but a fine cabinet does enhance the effect.

 

LOL!

 

I screen shot the part in bold and just saved it to three different storage devices for safe keeping. That just made my night. 

[16hz lover]

NIck's Dad finally joined the forum.

 

   I want to thank Dave, Paul. Virginia, and Tim for having us down to their great house.  I really needed to hear Dave's HT room setup, and finally see his outstanding subwoofers.  I first got to the top of the stairs and upon entering the HT room, noticed that it was painted the gray color that I've selected for my own stereo room along with the light gray trim.  The whole finely decorated room was just fun to be in. After having the worst year of my life this year, it was great therapy to hear Dave's subs deliver chest-pounding, clean subwoofage.   And have it measured by top-notch equipment which eliminates all the BS and subjective opinions by the arm-chair, micro-analyzing, acoustical wannabe engineers on the forums( most of them don't even own subwoofers, we all know who I'm talking about).

  It was also fun once again to see the son of my dreams have his great subs be scrutinized and measured by the experts, and then receiving unanimous praise on the success of his design. The younger generation usually surpasses their parents best efforts, and this is the case here.  I had a 24" Hartley subwoofer driver when Nick was first getting started.(it had a whopping 5mm of travel...lol)

   Dave, thank Virginia again for all the great food ( I needed that slice of Key Lime Pie like I needed another hole in my head).  And I'll look forward to getting together with you again, and thank you for the invitation come down there with Nick.  It was great to talk to the rest of the guys there too, we had some great conversations going on.

 

Marty

[Bossobass Dave]

NIck's Dad finally joined the forum.

 

   I want to thank Dave, Paul. Virginia, and Tim for having us down to their great house.  I really needed to hear Dave's HT room setup, and finally see his outstanding subwoofers.  I first got to the top of the stairs and upon entering the HT room, noticed that it was painted the gray color that I've selected for my own stereo room along with the light gray trim.  The whole finely decorated room was just fun to be in. After having the worst year of my life this year, it was great therapy to hear Dave's subs deliver chest-pounding, clean subwoofage.   And have it measured by top-notch equipment which eliminates all the BS and subjective opinions by the arm-chair, micro-analyzing, acoustical wannabe engineers on the forums( most of them don't even own subwoofers, we all know who I'm talking about).

  It was also fun once again to see the son of my dreams have his great subs be scrutinized and measured by the experts, and then receiving unanimous praise on the success of his design. The younger generation usually surpasses their parents best efforts, and this is the case here.  I had a 24" Hartley subwoofer driver when Nick was first getting started.(it had a whopping 5mm of travel...lol)

   Dave, thank Virginia again for all the great food ( I needed that slice of Key Lime Pie like I needed another hole in my head).  And I'll look forward to getting together with you again, and thank you for the invitation come down there with Nick.  It was great to talk to the rest of the guys there too, we had some great conversations going on.

 

Marty

 

OK, so this ^^^ is my favorite post in the thread.

 

Marty, you won't believe this but I just came back to the computer after listening to the CD you brought down as a gift. Gifts are always appreciated because I rarely receive any. This one was especially appreciated. George Duke and Stanley Clarke. Way thanks, my friend.

 

Virginia said thanks and thanks for the conversation as well. She enjoyed meeting you.

 

I popped in a favorite disc, MC SACD of Gaucho by Steely Dan. I was using the Raptor SI for low end and had the MVL cranked above reference level.

 

I've played that disc through roughly 17 subwoofers loaded with some 70 or so different 10", 12", 15" and 18" drivers over the past dozen years. The Raptor SI is pretty amazing. I guess it's current placement could be described as near field. It's just under 2M from the main LP. Effortless for music and that skin tight sealed-done-right presentation.

 

Yeah, you got every right to be proud.

 

Thanks again for showing up to the little party. It was great fun and good to see you out and about. Stay tuned for my formal review of the Raptor SI, middle of  next week...

[tuxedocivic]

I didn't follow the HS24 thread and I wouldn't bother keeping up with that drama anyways. I just saw it differently, but I don't know the whole story that's for sure. Sorry.

[Shredhead]

NIck's Dad finally joined the forum.

Woo Hoo!  Welcome to the databass 16Hz.

[lukeamdman]

PS: Click this text for a link to the Spies album my dad and I were talking about during the meet. IMO not fun music but for bass it is definitely worth purchasing. Kind of window-washing acid jazz style music but if you have a potent subwoofer system this album is a must have. 

I ordered this, so I really hope it's the right thing!

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spies-Music-of-Espionage-New-Music-/331471589306?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d2d3f0fba

[Electrodynamic]

I ordered this, so I really hope it's the right thing!

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spies-Music-of-Espionage-New-Music-/331471589306?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d2d3f0fba

 

Yep, that's the one. 

[BeastAudio]

I'll admit, they would be a bit tall if you wanted to set a drink down on the glass top.    Besides, why settle for four 24"s when you can stack them Raptor system style and get eight?   That particular rendering assumes 28" sonotube so they'd still fit through standard indoor doors without tearing the frame out, but I wasn't exactly trying for realistic in something drawn up in a few minutes. All you need and power to burn. That's going to be awesome. Thanks, a sub with a 24" frame receiving the name of a bird with a 24' wingspan seemed appropriate.

 

 

 

There's an "Ignore" feature? Wish I had known that. It'd only take about a half-dozen names on such a list to make the DIY section there moderately tolerable again. Of course, there'd be a huge decrease in traffic visible to me if I did that.

 

 

 

I'm just going to say that if you look around, you'll see that this is pretty much his schtick. He bounces around forum to forum doing everything he can to undermine the reputation of a few companies he's taken to hating, which are most always those with any ties to Dan Wiggins and his XBL^2 tech including Stereo Integrity. (Dan must've run over his dog or something to trigger his jihad, but whatever it was, he's still at it as strong as ever.) Over the years, folks who are truly knowledgable about driver design have tried to engage him in discussion making for some really informative threads (mostly over at DIYAudio), but there's no discussion in him. He's slippery about it, almost seeming to engage in debate, but it's unidirectional and all he's done is coopted the jargon and arguments becoming a bit of a driver design philosophaster. That he brought it to AVS with such intensity as of late was a surprise, but he must've been happy to find a new target and a few wishing to be better informed or wish to appear to be more so than the masses latching onto his position.

 

He's one best just to ignore these days. In the past, the discussions he'd trigger used to be good for learning something new, but they've become pretty shrill and one note anymore and besides, "I learned long ago never to wrestle with a pig..."

 

 

 

Thanks. That will be very cool. It's about time he can enjoy one of his flagship creations. Can't wait to see what you come up with. Those drivers don't even need a box to look cool, to be honest, but a fine cabinet does enhance the effect.

 

 

I poked the bear a little bit which didn't help Btw, I might have missed it, or just forgotten, but what is your handle on AVS? 

[carp]

Comon honestly, probably not "a lot".  There is a lot of hateful negativity on that site and some really creative nice people -who are mostly here as well.  You have to admit that things have changed quite a bit in the past few years at AVS and not for the better.  I'm not hating, just saying too. 

I have had the opposite opinion of AVS in the past few years.  I've been on there sine 2003 but it's only been in the past 5 years or so that the hobby has exploded for me and all of that is because of AVS.  In the past 5 years I've met so many great guys here in Kansas City and become close friends many of them.  I've also attended numerous out of town GTG's and have seen/heard some incredible rooms/speakers/subs and have met all kinds of great people - some of whom are on this thread.  

 

Without avs I'd still be listening to a sh*tty system and have no idea what could be.  Hmmm wait a minute.... I'd have a hell of a lot more money too though....    

 

So for me the fact that I sometimes have to wade through a BS thread with some fun haters pales in comparison to all the good that has come from the site.

[Bossobass Dave]

For me, HT forums were about the learning curve. AVS was just one of a dozen forums I was a member of 15 years ago.

 

Back then, truthfully, no one knew what bass management was or how it worked. Ported subs tuned to 25 Hz were the hot ticket and without things like HPF protection, the word "clack" was very common. No one had a sealed subwoofer and tar and feathers were the cure of the day for anyone who mentioned the possibility.

 

Ed Mullen, Ilkka, Seaton, Wiggins, etc., plowed through the jungle to rough in a road to general knowledge of the state of the art. Lots of theory, testing and test methodology and just plain building subs and posting the results.

 

The ID sub guys back then never ventured into the DIY stuff and ridiculed any DIYer who ventured into the ID sub forums and dared mention build a sub yourself.

 

Debates raged and mostly no one ran to the mods whining like little girls and that's where the facts slowly emerged. Thank goodness for that. I shudder to think what HT would be like if we all had to buy a 25 Hz 1 x 12" ported subwoofer.

 

I've attended many meets across the US and AVS played a shared part in them. Many of the original forums are gone (The Spot, AVTalk, AV123) or have evolved to focus on other aspects of HT like mains speakers (HT Guide), IB subs (The Cult), digital formats BR, movie reviews, etc, etc.

 

I settled in at AVS for lack of wanting to burn so much of my day forum hopping. Most members, in my experience with all of it, post one-liners, happy to let others blaze trails building and testing and debating. The building and testing and debating the results stuff was EXTREMELY time consuming.

 

Since Bott sold AVS, IMO, anyone who contends the place has gotten better (more cutting-edge, etc.) suffers from amnesia.

 

Anyway, GTGs were never spawned by any particular forum. Guys built cool shit and invited other guys who might be interested in checking it out. Whether the organizing hub is AVS or FB is irrelevant, IMO. I'm just glad people wanted to open their homes to others for that sort of thing. It's always been great fun for me and the guys who've moved on as well as the guys who took their spots in the queue are all cool as ice in my experience.

 

This one was no exception.

[Bossobass Dave]

I redid the animated excursion gif of the hst-15 with new frames from one of the vids of HULK:

 

 

That's about the coolest excursion animation of all time.

 

BTW, back then, when I built my first little sealed L/T'd big power (2800W) subs NO ONE on planet earth could do what this animated gif shows the HST-15 doing.

[Electrodynamic]

For me, HT forums were about the learning curve. AVS was just one of a dozen forums I was a member of 15 years ago.

 

Back then, truthfully, no one knew what bass management was or how it worked. Ported subs tuned to 25 Hz were the hot ticket and without things like HPF protection, the word "clack" was very common. No one had a sealed subwoofer and tar and feathers were the cure of the day for anyone who mentioned the possibility.

 

Ed Mullen, Ilkka, Seaton, Wiggins, etc., plowed through the jungle to rough in a road to general knowledge of the state of the art. Lots of theory, testing and test methodology and just plain building subs and posting the results.

 

The ID sub guys back then never ventured into the DIY stuff and ridiculed any DIYer who ventured into the ID sub forums and dared mention build a sub yourself.

 

Debates raged and mostly no one ran to the mods whining like little girls and that's where the facts slowly emerged. Thank goodness for that. I shudder to think what HT would be like if we all had to buy a 25 Hz 1 x 12" ported subwoofer.

 

I've attended many meets across the US and AVS played a shared part in them. Many of the original forums are gone (The Spot, AVTalk, AV123) or have evolved to focus on other aspects of HT like mains speakers (HT Guide), IB subs (The Cult), digital formats BR, movie reviews, etc, etc.

 

I settled in at AVS for lack of wanting to burn so much of my day forum hopping. Most members, in my experience with all of it, post one-liners, happy to let others blaze trails building and testing and debating. The building and testing and debating the results stuff was EXTREMELY time consuming.

 

Since Bott sold AVS, IMO, anyone who contends the place has gotten better (more cutting-edge, etc.) suffers from amnesia.

 

Anyway, GTGs were never spawned by any particular forum. Guys built cool shit and invited other guys who might be interested in checking it out. Whether the organizing hub is AVS or FB is irrelevant, IMO. I'm just glad people wanted to open their homes to others for that sort of thing. It's always been great fun for me and the guys who've moved on as well as the guys who took their spots in the queue are all cool as ice in my experience.

 

This one was no exception.

 

I have to agree 100%. What I'm about to say may pigeon-hole me into a stereotype but it is the truth: I see many similarities with when I was hot and heavy on the, at the time, many car audio forums. The main forum has changed sites over the years but one thing struck me as similar to your post - the big information mecca's used to be on those forums. Leading industry technical people from various companies were there along with the one person I learned the most from, Dan Wiggins, was also on there spreading knowledge like crazy. Thankfully in home audio people still take the time to read. Unfortunately in car audio if your post doesn't have a mime in it your post body is not read. But I digress...

[tuxedocivic]

Every forum rubs the wrong way once in a while. I walked away from AVS for a couple months at the beginning of the year to get away from some of the BS. I don't mind bad info, helping noobs, or arguing. What bugs me is when people start to expect certain things from the forum. Like, how do I cut a hole for a woofer type questions. If you can't figure that out, you should buy your speakers! But when you say that they get all pissy. I also got a lot of questions like: how do I design a speaker from scratch? To which is reply well it's taken 20 years of learning how am I supposed to tell you that in a forum post. The response - you speaker designers are just cocky and like to keep this stuff a secret from people who want to learn.... Ya, then go figure it out yourself like I did.

 

The first forum I joined was parts express tech talk around 2006 or 07. Ya, didn't even know these things existed way past most of you guys. I certainly learned a lot and still do. I went from trying and failing a LOT to actually gettin it.

 

None of this frustration keeps me from throwing in the towel yet though. I think AVS et al still can offer a lot for me and I am able to regulate the stuff I engage with much better than I used to. Like the HS24 thread. Saw that, read a few posts, and walked away. Said my piece on this forum. Sound like I made a good decision

 

Anyways, that's my story.

 

PS. One super sucky thing about AVS is these new reviews on crappy speakers that spew the glory and majesty of Klipsch and other junk.

[Electrodynamic]

Exactly. Case in point regarding the HS-24 thread and also Bosso's Raptor's: The numbers are not there in WinISD so they must suck, right? Nope. But those who have actually heard either of the latter will argue the other way. BUT those who have heard either system/driver stay away from the forums because they have found bass nirvana. I kid around at the shop saying that I apparently hide a midget assasin inside the crate I ship every 24 with because that person immediately stops posting on the forums. Thankfully one customer is fairly local in Asheville with a DO pair of HS-24's IB in his attic. I asked him why he doesn't post on AVS anymore and he said exactly the latter that he "has found bass nirvana" and doesn't need to post on the forums anymore. The Raptors are no different really. They are the most potent small-footprint system I have ever heard. And this is coming from me [Mr. used to a 150+ dB at 25 Hz for many years]. The Raptor system is beyond impressive. I still want Bosso's room response in my tiny spare bedroom, haha. 

[Shredhead]

 I think AVS et al still can offer a lot for me and I am able to regulate the stuff I engage with much better than I used to. Like the HS24 thread. Saw that, read a few posts, and walked away. Said my piece on this forum. Sound like I made a good decision

I think it's sad that you should have to do that in any forum. I am thankful that DB is a place where that doesn't exist and I hope it never will.  Much of AVS would be as brutal as the comments in youtube overnight if there were no mods in place and they have to put a set of kindergarden rules in place to regulate that atmosphere.  What I don't get is if in my own time and expense, I find a problem with say an OPPO bluray player, go to AVS, post it in the appropriate section with easy to understand pictures of the data I gathered showing a defect in the design of the product...

I then have to fight for my life from a gang of people who hate my guts, have no data of their own to show for their views, report me for nothing and complain to the mods until my thread is moved so far in the back of the room that no one who NEEDS to see that information ever will. 

 

Is that science?  Maybe it's from getting older but it seems to me that it is a growing trend for people to act with a senseless mob mentality online. 

[Infrasonic]

Exactly. Case in point regarding the HS-24 thread and also Bosso's Raptor's: The numbers are not there in WinISD so they must suck, right? Nope. But those who have actually heard either of the latter will argue the other way. BUT those who have heard either system/driver stay away from the forums because they have found bass nirvana. I kid around at the shop saying that I apparently hide a midget assasin inside the crate I ship every 24 with because that person immediately stops posting on the forums. Thankfully one customer is fairly local in Asheville with a DO pair of HS-24's IB in his attic. I asked him why he doesn't post on AVS anymore and he said exactly the latter that he "has found bass nirvana" and doesn't need to post on the forums anymore. The Raptors are no different really. They are the most potent small-footprint system I have ever heard. And this is coming from me [Mr. used to a 150+ dB at 25 Hz for many years]. The Raptor system is beyond impressive. I still want Bosso's room response in my tiny spare bedroom, haha. 

 

I find that this is rather common. Over the years I've seen some regulars come and go and come back sometimes. Sometimes I never see them again. Obviously, life can take over and they move on. Fair enough. Other times there is a slightly rare breed that just finds what they're looking for. Some of them even post here. It just depends on the person.

 

I'm pretty happy with my system but I just love this hobby so I'll always be around, I'm sure.

[Infrasonic]

For me, HT forums were about the learning curve. AVS was just one of a dozen forums I was a member of 15 years ago.

 

Back then, truthfully, no one knew what bass management was or how it worked. Ported subs tuned to 25 Hz were the hot ticket and without things like HPF protection, the word "clack" was very common. No one had a sealed subwoofer and tar and feathers were the cure of the day for anyone who mentioned the possibility.

 

Ed Mullen, Ilkka, Seaton, Wiggins, etc., plowed through the jungle to rough in a road to general knowledge of the state of the art. Lots of theory, testing and test methodology and just plain building subs and posting the results.

 

The ID sub guys back then never ventured into the DIY stuff and ridiculed any DIYer who ventured into the ID sub forums and dared mention build a sub yourself.

 

Debates raged and mostly no one ran to the mods whining like little girls and that's where the facts slowly emerged. Thank goodness for that. I shudder to think what HT would be like if we all had to buy a 25 Hz 1 x 12" ported subwoofer.

 

I've attended many meets across the US and AVS played a shared part in them. Many of the original forums are gone (The Spot, AVTalk, AV123) or have evolved to focus on other aspects of HT like mains speakers (HT Guide), IB subs (The Cult), digital formats BR, movie reviews, etc, etc.

 

I settled in at AVS for lack of wanting to burn so much of my day forum hopping. Most members, in my experience with all of it, post one-liners, happy to let others blaze trails building and testing and debating. The building and testing and debating the results stuff was EXTREMELY time consuming.

 

Since Bott sold AVS, IMO, anyone who contends the place has gotten better (more cutting-edge, etc.) suffers from amnesia.

 

Anyway, GTGs were never spawned by any particular forum. Guys built cool shit and invited other guys who might be interested in checking it out. Whether the organizing hub is AVS or FB is irrelevant, IMO. I'm just glad people wanted to open their homes to others for that sort of thing. It's always been great fun for me and the guys who've moved on as well as the guys who took their spots in the queue are all cool as ice in my experience.

 

This one was no exception.

 

And that's where I met you, Dave, over at HTguide. Wow, that was a LONG time ago. That place is still active and has some of the smartest and most level headed audio nerds. What a great place. Though the demographic there isn't exactly up the level of ...let's just call it 'desire' for SPL/extension bass. It's not the main focus but that's okay. Again, great people there. If on AVS were as civil.

 

Well said.

 

But ... times change. As you mentioned, things, people and trends change. We are a FAAARRR cry from the typical sub build of 15 years ago. Yer right! 25hz tuned 12's was the rage for a long time. Sealed subs were just for "music guys". Hell, I thought as much back then too. But I've always been a HT audio guy since ...forever so of course I'd think that. But to be fair, there were NOT drivers that are ANYTHING like what we have now and totally take for granted. You're lucky to get a driver with >12mm Xmax back then in any size or price.

 

 

I love reminiscing about such things. Let's keep doing this.

 

 

Yeah, a lot of people at AVS suck. I get it. I don't really have a problem with it but yeah, I notice. There are still good people there and like you mentioned, Dave... I hated the forum hopping. AVS has one thing that is desirable. Traffic. Lot's of it. That comes with a worse SNR though. That's what filters and proper gain structure is for... erm, ahem, I mean the ignore and subscription buttons.