Bossobass Mini GTG Thread

[lukeamdman]

Well, yes, I call 4KW per driver kinda power hungry.

 

BTW, the Sanway amps VPL dip switch numbers are doubled when in bridged mode so if the VPL lights were lit with 50-65 Hz input into a pair of LMS-U the amp was putting out 6KW per driver bursts to make the drivers really shine and the VPL lights light up.

 

I would like to hear comments on the difference between the pair of LMS-U and the single HS24. Subjective responses have always fascinated me but I have no way to quantify them because the discussion is usually pretty juvenile with loads of exaggeration about teeth and pants.

 

The impedance was halving the power to the pair of LMS-U and that's usually the difference that matters with soundtrack source. Looking at the speclab cap where one was switched to the other on-the-fly during playback of one of those Bass I love You types of music clips, you can see the SPL difference of right around 3dB and no significant difference in FR in the bandwidth of interest. You can also see the slight advantage the LMS-U drivers enjoy around the 100-120 Hz region due (maybe) to less inductance-induced roll off:

 

 

IMO, the 3dB diff in level was not what I was hearing as the difference. There was a significant difference in presentation and I do not believe it was harmonic distortion and none that would be significantly audible shows up on the SL cap either.

 

I think you're missing the point I was making with 4kw.  

 

The vast majority of 18s that were around 5-7 years ago couldn't handle a 4kw amp regardless of the frequency.  The HST/ZV4 weren't around then.  

 

The 5400 can handle 4kw over 30hz where the other 18s couldn't at the time.  That doesn't make it power hungry, that makes it capable.

 

Power hungry would mean the 5400 with ~2kw would be less efficient than other comparable drivers with the same power, which isn't true.

 

I also don't recall reading that the 24 "completely overwhelmed" or "completely destroyed" the dual 5400s.  I recall the subjective comments being unanimous that the single 24 had more output no doubt, but let's not get carried away with hyperbole.  Perhaps I need to re-read the thread.    

 

My only inclination is that the dual 5400s had more left in the tank.  People think they're super fragile so they tend to be more cautious with them on the low end.

 

In any event, Josh's numbers show that a single 24 vs dual 5400s (when pushed to max) will be super close in performance below 20hz.  

[Bossobass Dave]

I think you're missing the point I was making with 4kw.  

 

The vast majority of 18s that were around 5-7 years ago couldn't handle a 4kw amp regardless of the frequency.  The HST/ZV4 weren't around then.  

 

The 5400 can handle 4kw over 30hz where the other 18s couldn't at the time.  That doesn't make it power hungry, that makes it capable.

 

Power hungry would mean the 5400 with ~2kw would be less efficient than other comparable drivers with the same power, which isn't true.

 

I also don't recall reading that the 24 "completely overwhelmed" or "completely destroyed" the dual 5400s.  I recall the subjective comments being unanimous that the single 24 had more output no doubt, but let's not get carried away with hyperbole.  Perhaps I need to re-read the thread.    

 

My only inclination is that the dual 5400s had more left in the tank.  People think they're super fragile so they tend to be more cautious with them on the low end.

 

In any event, Josh's numbers show that a single 24 vs dual 5400s (when pushed to max) will be super close in performance below 20hz.  

 

Not power hungry, just capable... all you need is 4KW per driver. Let's not get carried away with semantics.

 

It seems like you're saying that if there was a Sanway at the GTG, the results would have been hugely different? The SP-2-8000 is rated at 2400WPC into 4 ohms. The Peavey IPR is rated at 3750WPC into 2 ohms. The total rated difference was <2dB. If you ask Brian, the difference is far greater than that and probably 2 to 1. Seaton claimed line sag was a problem. Others claim there was a significant FR difference.

 

Josh's numbers show max burst with no THD limits, the HS24 gave +8dB more output below 20 Hz. If you have dual LMS-U drivers with twice the amp you still lose by 2dB. You of all people should agree that GTG demos never stop at Xmax or THD-limited bursts. And full BW soundtrack effects are very different from shaped tone bursts.

 

I'm familiar with subwoofers so I tend not to exaggerate. I've always maintained that multiple drivers is a better design over a single uber-driver. I'm aware of how well the Ultra measures outdoors @ GP. There was no contest. The presentation was that different. Like, not what I expected. Like, surprisingly not what I expected.

 

Maybe the Peavey amp is that much better than the SP amp. Maybe the SP amp was defective. My point is that this is all too technical and splitting hairs. I know what the reaction of the others in attendance was... I was there. What any of them may have written later on down the road is irrelevant to me. YMMV. A pair of Ultras does not exceed the HS24 in every desirable performance metric. Those who wrote and maintain that haven't made the comparison.

[lukeamdman]

Not power hungry, just capable... all you need is 4KW per driver. Let's not get carried away with semantics.

 

It seems like you're saying that if there was a Sanway at the GTG, the results would have been hugely different? The SP-2-8000 is rated at 2400WPC into 4 ohms. The Peavey IPR is rated at 3750WPC into 2 ohms. The total rated difference was <2dB. If you ask Brian, the difference is far greater than that and probably 2 to 1. Seaton claimed line sag was a problem. Others claim there was a significant FR difference.

 

Josh's numbers show max burst with no THD limits, the HS24 gave +8dB more output below 20 Hz. If you have dual LMS-U drivers with twice the amp you still lose by 2dB. You of all people should agree that GTG demos never stop at Xmax or THD-limited bursts. And full BW soundtrack effects are very different from shaped tone bursts.

 

I'm familiar with subwoofers so I tend not to exaggerate. I've always maintained that multiple drivers is a better design over a single uber-driver. I'm aware of how well the Ultra measures outdoors @ GP. There was no contest. The presentation was that different. Like, not what I expected. Like, surprisingly not what I expected.

 

Maybe the Peavey amp is that much better than the SP amp. Maybe the SP amp was defective. My point is that this is all too technical and splitting hairs. I know what the reaction of the others in attendance was... I was there. What any of them may have written later on down the road is irrelevant to me. YMMV. A pair of Ultras does not exceed the HS24 in every desirable performance metric. Those who wrote and maintain that haven't made the comparison.

 

You're killing me man...I'll try and say this another way...

 

I'll throw this scenario out there with two different 18" drivers under the same hypothetical circumstances.

 

 

Subwoofer "A" = LMS 5400 in 4cu.ft

 

Subwoofer "B" = A comparable 18" driver in 2010 also in 4cu.ft

 

 

With 2kw at 30hz, Sub A will produce 110db

With 2kw at 30hz, Sub B will produce 110db

 

With 4kw at 30hz, Sub A will produce 113db

With 4kw at 30hz, Sub B will produce distortion/xmech limits

 

 

With that being the case, who would make the claim at Sub A is power hungry?

 

That's all I'm trying to get across.  The 5400 doesn't need any more power than the other popular long throw 18s out there to reach the same SPL.  On the top end it could just handle more for increased output where the other drivers on the market at the time couldn't.

[16hz lover]

 

 

I also don't recall reading that the 24 "completely overwhelmed" or "completely destroyed" the dual 5400s.  I recall the subjective comments being unanimous that the single 24 had more output no doubt, but let's not get carried away with hyperbole.  Perhaps I need to re-read the thread.  

 

Here lies the big problem.  As my last post stated, those who were not in attendance immediately started up on the forums saying as Nick posted " the GTG means nothing, send it to Ricci"  What could be more wrong on this planet than dismissing what 14 or 16 people who actually attended and felt/heard during the comparison?    The 24 actually did "overwhelm" the 5400's below 12 or so hertz as Dave and Paul captured as visible proof, and it was 2 of them, I repeat 2, with twice the power, at twice the cost, again twice the cost.  How can everyone completely ignore the cost and number of drivers and visible proof on a PC screen measured with a high dollar microphone?    Please give me a logical answer.

 

.

 

In any event, Josh's numbers show that a single 24 vs dual 5400s (when pushed to max) will be super close in performance below 20hz.  

 

Well you can NEVER again trust predictions or calculations, as the two 5400's fell on their face at the GTG below 20hz.  Even the owner of them admitted that, along with Dave's in-room mic measurements.  We are talking about SUB-woofers here, meaning being able to reproduce things below the limit of human hearing(20hz).  Hell, a room full of "Funky Pups" at $12.00 each can play stuff above 20hz, especially when I keep hearing about the 5400's awesome ability to do 50-60hz. 

 

I will admit that I'm wasting the precious few remaining minutes of my life on here.

[Bossobass Dave]

You're killing me man...I'll try and say this another way...

 

I'll throw this scenario out there with two different 18" drivers under the same hypothetical circumstances.

 

 

Subwoofer "A" = LMS 5400 in 4cu.ft

 

Subwoofer "B" = A comparable 18" driver in 2010 also in 4cu.ft

 

 

With 2kw at 30hz, Sub A will produce 110db

With 2kw at 30hz, Sub B will produce 110db

 

With 4kw at 30hz, Sub A will produce 113db

With 4kw at 30hz, Sub B will produce distortion/xmech limits

 

 

With that being the case, who would make the claim at Sub A is power hungry?

 

That's all I'm trying to get across.  The 5400 doesn't need any more power than the other popular long throw 18s out there to reach the same SPL.  On the top end it could just handle more for increased output where the other drivers on the market at the time couldn't.

 

No attempted murder in my post, I promise. I completely understand and the explanation wasn't necessary.

 

I'm just saying that 4KW is a lot of power for a single driver. To maintain 3dB of amp headroom you need 8KW of amp. That driver is power hungry by any standard and that would include ANY driver that requires 4KW. There's a reason Josh can't get away with using a Behringer amp on a 120V line.

 

Nick's HST-15s ate 4KW at the GTG...

 

 

 

Shredhead, on 11 Jun 2015 - 8:43 PM, said:

 

So guys, remember the cop car scene from TIH we cranked on Nick's 2 HST's?  I just went back and replayed it with everything set exactly the way it was when we shot the video for it and took some measurements...

 

Turns out we were pushing 8912.32 peak Watts (give or take some equipment measurement error)  to the 2 HST's in that video.   The drivers were moving 42mm one way.  Hahahahahaha! !

 

 

Disclaimer: We do not recommend that you feed that much power to any of Stereo Integrity's products.  It was done only in the name of GTG excess and fun.

 

 

This is not a bad thing and is a requirement for proper system design. I've said for a long time that all commercial systems are amp-limited. The whole point of even mentioning it is that you said you never tripped VPL/CPL lights and caused your LMS drivers to clack many times with 4KW of burst power per driver in the system.

 

That doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the discussion, that's all.

 

[lukeamdman]

 

No attempted murder in my post, I promise. I completely understand and the explanation wasn't necessary.

 

I'm just saying that 4KW is a lot of power for a single driver. To maintain 3dB of amp headroom you need 8KW of amp. That driver is power hungry by any standard and that would include ANY driver that requires 4KW. There's a reason Josh can't get away with using a Behringer amp on a 120V line.

 

Nick's HST-15s ate 4KW at the GTG...

 

 

The 5400 does not require 4kw.  However, it can take advantage of 4kw above 30hz if someone is inclined to do that.

 

It's not a power hungry driver.  

[lukeamdman]

 

 

 

I also don't recall reading that the 24 "completely overwhelmed" or "completely destroyed" the dual 5400s.  I recall the subjective comments being unanimous that the single 24 had more output no doubt, but let's not get carried away with hyperbole.  Perhaps I need to re-read the thread.  

 

Here lies the big problem.  As my last post stated, those who were not in attendance immediately started up on the forums saying as Nick posted " the GTG means nothing, send it to Ricci"  What could be more wrong on this planet than dismissing what 14 or 16 people who actually attended and felt/heard during the comparison?    The 24 actually did "overwhelm" the 5400's below 12 or so hertz as Dave and Paul captured as visible proof, and it was 2 of them, I repeat 2, with twice the power, at twice the cost, again twice the cost.  How can everyone completely ignore the cost and number of drivers and visible proof on a PC screen measured with a high dollar microphone?    Please give me a logical answer.

 

.

 

In any event, Josh's numbers show that a single 24 vs dual 5400s (when pushed to max) will be super close in performance below 20hz.  

 

Well you can NEVER again trust predictions or calculations, as the two 5400's fell on their face at the GTG below 20hz.  Even the owner of them admitted that, along with Dave's in-room mic measurements.  We are talking about SUB-woofers here, meaning being able to reproduce things below the limit of human hearing(20hz).  Hell, a room full of "Funky Pups" at $12.00 each can play stuff above 20hz, especially when I keep hearing about the 5400's awesome ability to do 50-60hz. 

 

I will admit that I'm wasting the precious few remaining minutes of my life on here.

 

 

Here's facts you're left with.  There is no magic in audio, every driver and amp has a limit, and lucky for us, Josh has found them with the 5400 and SI-24.

 

Non-THD limited output for both:

 

SI-24:

 

10hz: 102.5db

12.5hz: 107.3db

16hz: 112.9db

 

5400x2:

 

10hz: 102.4db

12.5hz: 106.3db

16hz: 110.5db

 

 

Difference (all in favor of the SI-24):

 

10hz: 0.1db

12.5hz: 1db

16hz: 2.4db

 

 

Dave's graphs showed a difference of what, ~3db in favor of the SI-24?

 

So what I take away is that a 3db difference is a "overwhelmed" and "falling on their face" type of difference?  Really guys?

 

The facts show below 20hz they should be close, and Dave's captures even confirm they were within 3db, so isn't it possible the 5400s had maybe little left in the tank?

[MKtheater]

3 dB more is actually another LMS and amp to power it, or another $2k.

[lukeamdman]

3 dB more is actually another LMS and amp to power it, or another $2k.

 

Everyone knows that, and no one is disputing that.  

 

I'm asking if 3db below 20hz is a "overwhelming" and "falling on their face" kind of subjective listening/feeling difference.  

[Infrasonic]

Only if you were already on the ragged edge of the system's performance envelope already.

 

Most of us with the desire for mega amounts of bass already have sub systems with multiples. Going over the minutia of a small amount of dB difference between X and Y driver is just masturbation.

 

Not that I'd argue we don't enjoy that.

 

 

LMS... SI24.... who cares? They are all nice drivers. Can't we just get back to loving bass here at Data Bass?

[lukeamdman]

Only if you were already on the ragged edge of the system's performance envelope already.

 

Most of us with the desire for mega amounts of bass already have sub systems with multiples. Going over the minutia of a small amount of dB difference between X and Y driver is just masturbation.

 

Not that I'd argue we don't enjoy that.

 

 

LMS... SI24.... who cares? They are all nice drivers. Can't we just get back to loving bass here at Data Bass?

 

I should back off a bit.  I get annoyed with hyperbole and should just let it go.  

[Infrasonic]

Well .... now we can spend time considering the most important discussion of all....

 

 

 

How we can convince you to make another tower for you center channel, adding an AT screen and building twice as many Ohorns and Ghorns for you room.

 

Now that's important stuff.

Much more interesting than battles of the ohms, amp configurations and single decibel differences that create overwhelming performances gains over other products. It's true. There's a speclab for that.

[lukeamdman]

Well .... now we can spend time considering the most important discussion of all....

 

 

 

How we can convince you to make another tower for you center channel, adding an AT screen and building twice as many Ohorns and Ghorns for you room.

 

Now that's important stuff.

Much more interesting than battles of the ohms, amp configurations and single decibel differences that create overwhelming performances gains over other products. It's true. There's a speclab for that.

I'm enjoying the new towers so much I haven't thought of much else!  I've never listened to music as much as I have been in the past couple weeks.  

 

I think I'll put some ear plugs in and see if I can hit 140db on that Jupiter Ascending scene!  Anyone want to bet I can't?  

[Infrasonic]

I'd like video evidence of such event.

[lukeamdman]

I'd like video evidence of such event.

 

You can count on that.

[BeastAudio]

+1 for video evidence.... 

 

Wowzers I had some catching up to do on this thread. At this point I am now tapped out, filled with regret about throwing that stupid g2g. I agree that what we did there "Took science back more years than anything I have ever seen on any forum period." You guys asked for the truth, you get it: I was secretly running the Ultras on a pair of bash300 plate amps I had hidden behind the stereo closet, and the 24 was directly fed by a new concept I have been working on where I pull current directly from the hydroelectric plant next to my house (That every single one of you failed to notice apparently...  )

 

I had also hot-glued the coils on the ultras shut, and finally, dropped rufalin in everyone's IPA's before we got started while my grill I bought straight from the devil himself was scorching those disgusting hotdogs and hamburgers chop brought all the way down from Conn. Hell, the meat was probably rotten anyways, supplementing that nice buzz those pills gave everyone.

[Infrasonic]

Lol. Geez. You guys sure are sensitive. Why regret it? Did you or anyone else not have a great time? I wish I could have gone, I would have loved it.

 

Science? Eh, some of you are a little wishy washy on that whole "science" thing. Science is good when a 24" driver beats out two 18's but science fails to exist anymore when people start talking about inductance and it's effect on the overall performance of a driver. But that's like .... so not important or scientific. At least from one angle of perspective. Inductance traits are so not going to affect a 'subwoofer'! *points at DB measured high inductance subwoofers affecting total response and low end sensitivity.* Totally irrelevant.

 

Now.... stop hot gluing the coils on your drivers! Gosh! No wonder you needs so many subwoofers. People only need one, don'tcha know.

 

 

But... I am interested in the rufalin. *shh shh* It's cool. Let's go out back and talk more about that.

 

 

 

Mmmm.... burgers.

[lukeamdman]

+1 for video evidence.... 

 

Wowzers I had some catching up to do on this thread. At this point I am now tapped out, filled with regret about throwing that stupid g2g. I agree that what we did there "Took science back more years than anything I have ever seen on any forum period." You guys asked for the truth, you get it: I was secretly running the Ultras on a pair of bash300 plate amps I had hidden behind the stereo closet, and the 24 was directly fed by a new concept I have been working on where I pull current directly from the hydroelectric plant next to my house (That every single one of you failed to notice apparently...  )

 

I had also hot-glued the coils on the ultras shut, and finally, dropped rufalin in everyone's IPA's before we got started while my grill I bought straight from the devil himself was scorching those disgusting hotdogs and hamburgers chop brought all the way down from Conn. Hell, the meat was probably rotten anyways, supplementing that nice buzz those pills gave everyone.

 

That GTG was epic.  Don't have any regrets.

 

I have no doubt at all that the SI had more output, and I've been scheming of ways to get my hands on some of them.  

[Bossobass Dave]

 

 

 

 

Here's facts you're left with.  There is no magic in audio, every driver and amp has a limit, and lucky for us, Josh has found them with the 5400 and SI-24.

 

Non-THD limited output for both:

 

SI-24:

 

10hz: 102.5db

12.5hz: 107.3db

16hz: 112.9db

 

5400x2:

 

10hz: 102.4db

12.5hz: 106.3db

16hz: 110.5db

 

 

Difference (all in favor of the SI-24):

 

10hz: 0.1db

12.5hz: 1db

16hz: 2.4db

 

 

Dave's graphs showed a difference of what, ~3db in favor of the SI-24?

 

So what I take away is that a 3db difference is a "overwhelmed" and "falling on their face" type of difference?  Really guys?

 

The facts show below 20hz they should be close, and Dave's captures even confirm they were within 3db, so isn't it possible the 5400s had maybe little left in the tank?

 

Hyperbole? That's pretty annoying, actually.

 

I posted a single SL cap that only shows a fraction of a minute of one song with strong content <25 Hz. It shows a +3dB advantage to the single HS24 using what is a much more demanding input signal than the shaped tone bursts.

 

So, you gathered from that that there was a maximum 3dB difference throughout the comparison and accuse a dozen people of hyperbole based on that? Really guy?

 

Your focus is <20 Hz. I've already conceded that the CEA tests show THD-limited advantage to 4 LMS-U at 10 Hz using Josh's results (and the signal chain at the GTG eliminated most output <8 Hz). Yes, 4 drivers, not 2. Yes, using same amplifier power, not 2 amplifiers. You and Josh seem to agree that the single K-10 would be sufficient to power dual Ultra drivers, bridged into 8 ohms and achieve +6dB results. To concede that point, we use 2 Ultra drivers and assume +6dB in results, which is not only a significant stipulation, it wasn't possible with the SP-2-8000 amplifier used and couldn't even have been satisfied if there were two of them.

 

And, we're talking here about the GTG. BOTH systems had gas in the tank. Ask Brian. He claims a real Lab FP14000 only has 3KW bridged into 4 ohms long term, as tested by him, while the SP-2-8000 gives full rated power, long term, as tested by him. What do you suspect the IPR has long term in his opinion? Probably not 7500W. The fact that the HS24 showed no signs of distress while the amplifiers went into protect should make it obvious that the HS24 had maybe a little left in the tank as well, no?

 

There were also songs and clips played with strong content right in the heart of the HS24s advantage point (20-40 Hz).

 

What is the HS24 advantage from 20-40 Hz in the previously posted CEA max burst graph? What is the advantage difference when you add +2dB amplifier advantage (again, having to assume the SP-2-8000 and the IPR-7500 both gave full rated power) to those results? Four times, at least, is what I get and what I heard. No hyperbole.

 

That's the same difference you'd experience if you doubled the HS24 and the IPR-7500 amplifier to compare a single HS24 system to double that system and could do it on-the-fly.

[lukeamdman]

Hyperbole? That's pretty annoying, actually.

 

I posted a single SL cap that only shows a fraction of a minute of one song with strong content <25 Hz. It shows a +3dB advantage to the single HS24 using what is a much more demanding input signal than the shaped tone bursts.

 

So, you gathered from that that there was a maximum 3dB difference throughout the comparison and accuse a dozen people of hyperbole based on that? Really guy?

 

Your focus is <20 Hz. I've already conceded that the CEA tests show THD-limited advantage to 4 LMS-U at 10 Hz using Josh's results (and the signal chain at the GTG eliminated most output <8 Hz). Yes, 4 drivers, not 2. Yes, using same amplifier power, not 2 amplifiers. You and Josh seem to agree that the single K-10 would be sufficient to power dual Ultra drivers, bridged into 8 ohms and achieve +6dB results. To concede that point, we use 2 Ultra drivers and assume +6dB in results, which is not only a significant stipulation, it wasn't possible with the SP-2-8000 amplifier used and couldn't even have been satisfied if there were two of them.

 

And, we're talking here about the GTG. BOTH systems had gas in the tank. Ask Brian. He claims a real Lab FP14000 only has 3KW bridged into 4 ohms long term, as tested by him, while the SP-2-8000 gives full rated power, long term, as tested by him. What do you suspect the IPR has long term in his opinion? Probably not 7500W. The fact that the HS24 showed no signs of distress while the amplifiers went into protect should make it obvious that the HS24 had maybe a little left in the tank as well, no?

 

There were also songs and clips played with strong content right in the heart of the HS24s advantage point (20-40 Hz).

 

What is the HS24 advantage from 20-40 Hz in the previously posted CEA max burst graph? What is the advantage difference when you add +2dB amplifier advantage (again, having to assume the SP-2-8000 and the IPR-7500 both gave full rated power) to those results? Four times, at least, is what I get and what I heard. No hyperbole.

 

That's the same difference you'd experience if you doubled the HS24 and the IPR-7500 amplifier to compare a single HS24 system to double that system and could do it on-the-fly.

 

Now we're getting somewhere.

 

I don't think it's outrageous to suggest the 5400s could have been turned up a few more DB.  It's as simple as that.  

[MKtheater]

Yes, is 3 dB much more? Is adding 2K much more because that is the difference. $3k vs $1k in drivers alone. Big difference there!

[16hz lover]

Yes, is 3 dB much more? Is adding 2K much more because that is the difference. $3k vs $1k in drivers alone. Big difference there!

 

That's my point, which seems to be dismissed here, or I should say ignored.  That's like arguing over a Corvette and a Lambo where both are within .125 seconds in a 1/4 mile drag strip but one costs 70K and the other 140K or more. So you're going to ignore the extra cost and just dwell on the performance difference?

 

But some people would rather ignore a busload of oiled up naked porn stars that just broke down in front of their house, and instead stay behind their PC and argue for their brand of choice.

[tuxedocivic]

I did not post anything in PI's thread directly at PI that was condescending. However, I did make information clear that was presented in such a way to elude to me being wrong.  Apparently you are one of the reason(s) why people stop posting on forums. No matter what you say you are taken beyond literal and nailed to the cross if you meant it any other way than what your text read. I can not help anyone that believes that "it can handle the boost" to mean that a driver can handle 300 dB of boost at 2 Hz. If one asked for clarification I would / could / did clarify but apparently that wasn't good enough. Once something is posted one time it is in concrete forever. 

 

[sarcasm]But thank you for making a PSA about AVS in my behalf. [/sarcasm] Where did I "bash" AVS in that post about the HST-15's other than mentioning that I did not see the images or measurements posted on AVS? I know the answer. I did not. Here is the text from my one and only post about the HST-15. Where did I "bash" AVS in my below posted text in my post?:

 

"Brought over from data-bass here are images which include measurements from the pair of HST-15's that I took over to Bosso's house a month ago during a GTG. I haven't seen any mention of it here on AVS so I figured I would post it for pictures if nothing else.

 

Naked and L/T'd close mic'd:

 

Video of the DO HST-15's in action:

 

After Bosso and Paul did their BASSIS adjustments:

 

Excursion:"

 

Thankfully, mentally, there is an ignore button on every forum. 

 

So in regards to the HS-24, by now are we agreeing to everyone pissing into the wind at the same time or do the LMS-U owners still get a free-pass?

 

Nick, your reading comprehension needs some work (ya, I'm being condescending), but seriously, it does. I didn't say you were directing condescending comments at PI. I also didn't say you bashed AVS in that thread. I said you bashed AVS in this thread and forum.

 

Your use of hyperbole to make my concerns seem irrational (300db @ 2hz) is once again condescending. It's getting old. You coming here pretending the exchange of comments was something other than what it was, doesn't make it so.

 

Lastly, if I am one of the people that makes people stop posting on forums, I think you need to take a step back and evaluate who the fuck you're talking to. I don't usually talk like this, but there's more than a few people who have my back and who look to me for technical information and input on purchasing decisions. You've bitten the hand that feeds you multiple times now. You're about to chew it right off.

[lukeamdman]

Yes, is 3 dB much more? Is adding 2K much more because that is the difference. $3k vs $1k in drivers alone. Big difference there!

 

If there was headroom left there was headroom left.  Take a look at some of the systems on here and AVS, you think 2k is going to make or break if the goal is performance?  

 

 

That's my point, which seems to be dismissed here, or I should say ignored.  That's like arguing over a Corvette and a Lambo where both are within .125 seconds in a 1/4 mile drag strip but one costs 70K and the other 140K or more. So you're going to ignore the extra cost and just dwell on the performance difference?

 

But some people would rather ignore a busload of oiled up naked porn stars that just broke down in front of their house, and instead stay behind their PC and argue for their brand of choice.

 

I don't know what as brought up on AVS, but over here the talk has been strictly performance.  I personally don't care about the cost of the systems, my only interest is the performance.  

 

So it's about brand loyalty now?  So am I brand loyal to your son, or TC?  I've bought product from both, so which is it?

[MKtheater]

To me it is easy, SI wins hands down in both performance and price but loses in box size, well, it is a 24 inch driver. Even handling 2 LMS 5400's is saying something. This forum has the numbers and it is not 3 dB everywhere but 2-3 in various places, even the tester just mentioned 3 LMS 5400's vs one. Where is the problem?