Can MIC2200 or MiniDSP cause clipping to Bass signal?

[Ricci]

Pc directly to amp is something I tinker about a bit, mainly because pc is my only source and I only use AVR for volume control.

But there is the thing I have not solved yet, finding a good and easy to use HTPC remote that has large and good volume buttons,

as easy as the AVR remote in other words, perhaps I can get the AVR remote to work somehow, hmm...

And finally how on earth I should control the volume.

I use Jriver for audio processing but it always runs in the background, processing audio from other applications.

So I have to figure out a way to control volume in Jriver when it is in the background, using the remote.

Ideally I would also need some OSD message showing the adjusted mastervolume so I'm not adjusting blind.

This here needs some tinkering, but it is tempting to slimline the signal chain, signal-noise ratio and rolloff would both benefit from it.

But it will indeed be a major pain...

 

Those are some of the reasons I haven't made the HTPC jump yet. It's like the wild west, trial and error etc. I do have nightmares of the PC experiencing a lock up or some other bad scenario and dumping full scale digital garbage at the amps too. A lot of the big touring rigs are all networked and run at least partially on mac or pc now so they must have something figured out.

[Spacebug]

I've not heard of the non DSP version acting the same.  Not saying it doesn't happen.  Seems like the worst possible kind of protection circuit to me though.  Besides, I thought those things were voltage limited.  I guess if it mentions a power shutdown for protection in the manual, that's what it is then. 

 

Like I said earlier, I have no data to back up my idea.  I think it's a bad idea because everything I've read about electronics points to how sensitive small signal digital circuits are to noise in power supplies.  If small and large signal digital circuits (or small digital and large analog signal) are combined in one component sharing the same transformer or switching PSU, I would expect the most sensitive small signal circuits in the component to suffer the most since there are obviously problems with the PSU keeping up with demand for the higher voltage parts. 

 

You didn't happen to snap any pics when you did your mod did you?

 

I think it is just an undocumented protection "feature", but one does think it could have been handled better.

I dont think it is documented that the 3000 series cuts back power after I think 3 seconds of full power on both channels, I guess because of the same reason as the 6000.

That would be much better, letting it play along at reduced levels instead of shutting down, don't know what the techs at Behringer thought there...

 

You are probably right about integrated dsp being more susceptible to noise and other problems than outboard dsp though.

Regarding the inuke series, I'm no expert in electronics but it does seem to include two transformers.

One large and one small transformer, perhaps the small one are used to power the "low voltage" components?

But if that transformer is fed by the larger transformer it could be a problem, guess it all depends on where in the PSU the failure/protection tripp occurs, before or after the "low voltage" components have got power..

 

Nope no pics during or after mod, but that can be arranged.

Took a bunch of pics before though, to have something to mull over at the pc, visually inspecting the board and comparing with the 3000 schematics.

But no pics after, can take some if you like, if not now then perhaps later for an eventual guide if there is interest and things pan out over time.

I will just have to move my hometheatre sheep guarding the amp so I can take some pics

 

 

 

Ohh, did not see you post

 

if jriver is your source then it supports MCE compatible remotes. I have an MCE keymap programmed into my RTi remote and find this works v nicely, it does have an OSD showing the volume as well. A shinier GUI is available via jremote if your prefer the tablet route (though the android version is only at its first release so not everything works yet). 

 

To echo your last point, this is once I got it working of course... that took ages with a few not obvious reasons for failure along the way

 

Yes MCE remotes would do the trick, use one for mediaportal and powerdvd, but that has very small volume buttons and they are located close to other buttons.

Not at all as easy as a AVR remote with its usual quite beefy volume buttons, easy to operate in the dark too...

Now I have just disabled volume adjustments in all programs and use the AVR for that.

But if I should make this work I also need to make the MCE volume adjustments to me ignored by all and every program runnings except Jriver, so I dont change volume in many programs at once.

If I dont find a good HTPC remote the best I can hope for is to make the pc understand the AVR remote volume ir codes, and make a custom command in Jriver for that ir code.

Or make the AVR remote emulate a MCE command for Jriver.

There are probably some suitable and expensive programmable remotes that can do something like this though.

Will dig around some and see what I can find...

 

I guess any number of remote control apps for android might work too but I want a dedicated remote, not having to use the phone for that...

[Shredhead]

Nope no pics during or after mod, but that can be arranged.

Took a bunch of pics before though, to have something to mull over at the pc, visually inspecting the board and comparing with the 3000 schematics.

But no pics after, can take some if you like, if not now then perhaps later for an eventual guide if there is interest and things pan out over time.

I will just have to move my hometheatre sheep guarding the amp so I can take some pics

No need to move stuff on my account.  I was just sort of curious to see it's guts.  I think it's cool that you modded it to extend lower, I haven't heard of anyone doing that yet. 

[Shredhead]

I do have nightmares of the PC experiencing a lock up or some other bad scenario and dumping full scale digital garbage at the amps too.

Totally.  In my forum treks I seem to halfway remember a thread where some were talking about 7.1 channel analog volume controls with a remote for that kind of a thing.  If it had no rolloff on the SW channel such a thing would be really cool because if it was indeed analog and you turned up your computer's SC or interface to it all the way feeding it, it would lower the noisefloor for the lower than full scale volume ranges. 

[3ll3d00d]

Yes MCE remotes would do the trick, use one for mediaportal and powerdvd, but that has very small volume buttons and they are located close to other buttons.

Not at all as easy as a AVR remote with its usual quite beefy volume buttons, easy to operate in the dark too...

Now I have just disabled volume adjustments in all programs and use the AVR for that.

But if I should make this work I also need to make the MCE volume adjustments to me ignored by all and every program runnings except Jriver, so I dont change volume in many programs at once.

If I dont find a good HTPC remote the best I can hope for is to make the pc understand the AVR remote volume ir codes, and make a custom command in Jriver for that ir code.

Or make the AVR remote emulate a MCE command for Jriver.

There are probably some suitable and expensive programmable remotes that can do something like this though.

Will dig around some and see what I can find...

 

I guess any number of remote control apps for android might work too but I want a dedicated remote, not having to use the phone for that...

 

there are certainly people that use eventghost or girder for a general purpose automation solution that can talk to jriver, you're then in the realm of just needing a USB IR receiver that your remote can talk to & appropriate effort to programme it in. Alternatively you could do some IP based thing but that looks a lot of work. It's a shame the jriver people don't really care for the home automation crowd. I am sceptical that it will ever really be a device like experience as it ends up being PC + pro audio hardware running on Windows so just way too many things to go wrong. I'll be more optimistic once the linux version is fully running as it is feasible to make linux a more device like experience.

[Spacebug]

Totally.  In my forum treks I seem to halfway remember a thread where some were talking about 7.1 channel analog volume controls with a remote for that kind of a thing.  If it had no rolloff on the SW channel such a thing would be really cool because if it was indeed analog and you turned up your computer's SC or interface to it all the way feeding it, it would lower the noisefloor for the lower than full scale volume ranges. 

 

That would be one solution, basically just the volume portion of an AVR as that is all I use it for.

It is incidentally also one reason why I want to abandon my AVR, it is the single most noisy component in my chain.

At high volumes its noisefloor clearly audiable from the listening position

With pc straight to amp I have to put my ear against the tweeters to hear the noise.

Granted it is a very old AVR and switching to a new one would probably do it, but it seems more elegant if it could be omitted all together.

 

Regarding my inuke I will see if I take pictures soon or if I do that when I re-do things for a more final soldering job.

If it is just amp gut you want to see then these amps are well photographed around the web, a quick google search would yield you some results

The most in depth review i've found though is this one, seems to be a guy who knows a thing or two about amps...

http://forum.speakerplans.com/behringer-inuke-nu6000-vs-kam-kxd7200-bench-tested_topic69202.html

 

 

 

there are certainly people that use eventghost or girder for a general purpose automation solution that can talk to jriver, you're then in the realm of just needing a USB IR receiver that your remote can talk to & appropriate effort to programme it in. Alternatively you could do some IP based thing but that looks a lot of work. It's a shame the jriver people don't really care for the home automation crowd. I am sceptical that it will ever really be a device like experience as it ends up being PC + pro audio hardware running on Windows so just way too many things to go wrong. I'll be more optimistic once the linux version is fully running as it is feasible to make linux a more device like experience.

 

This needs some more digging and testing I think.

I tried to get various programs to recognice and learn IR codes from my avr remote with the MCE ir reciever but that does not seem to work.

Perhaps it only understands MCE commands?

Either way it needs to be something "rock solid" that only the remote can change and only Jriver is affected.

That way no other program can take control over the volume and at random dump full scale signals straight out to the amps...

 

Yes, more automation options would be great, I'm fine with the "windows pc" experience though.

I'm kinda geeky and don't mind fixing stuff here or there, and Mediaportal and Powerdvd fills my need for mediacenter and Bluray programs.

I do some occational gaming as well so it is not a dedicated media pc, but jriver always handles all the audio, via wasapi loopback for now...

Playing Tomb Raider on a large screen and decent audio is something

 

 

 

 

Gee, I just realised, this derailed somewhat from the MIC2200 or MiniDSP topic

It's easy to get carried away

[Aj72]

If I were to rewire my Caps to 2Ohm stereo using just the XLS5000 would this also improve headroom?

[SME]

I discovered that with one of the first 2x4 balanced way back. Bought the thing simply for the fact it could high pass below 20Hz. Found out it did not behave correctly. Mentioned it on AVS and a couple of other guys confirmed as well. Discovered just how limiting the voltages were with my gain structure. Hated that I had to hook a computer to it. Done with it. I didn't need the <20Hz high pass that bad.

 

FWIW, I believe the MiniDSP OpenDRC-AN should have no problem with IIR filters under 20 Hz because it uses a 32-bit floating point engine instead of the fixed point engine on the 2x4.  Don't quote me on that though since I haven't actually verified it yet.  I do know that 32-bit float calculations work fine in my computer simulations. 

 

Of course, the OpenDRC has the same gain limitation.  When I bought my 2x4, I didn't realize how severely limited it was in this risk.  The first thing I did when I plugged in my 2x4 is assessed the gain situation.  I figured out immediately that my AVR could clip it on full-scale signal, even with the sub level control set to the minimum.  What I didn't realize until I bought a line attenuator is that my AVR itself was clipping a full-scale signal unless my sub level control was set to minimum.  Once I got the right size attenuator and got all my gains fixed, I had uncovered 10-20 dB of performance I didn't know I had.  Sadly anyone running a Denon or Marantz with sublevel at "0" as is commonly recommended is leaving major performance on the table.  Worse still, as has been recently discovered, the Oppo users are just plain screwed with no way to avoid internal clipping.

 

I guess I'm lucky that I'm not suffering from excessive noise, despite the heavy gains I'm using in my sub amps.  Of course, I'm also not trying run an LT for ULF from a sealed system, yet.

[SME]

If I were to rewire my Caps to 2Ohm stereo using just the XLS5000 would this also improve headroom?

The gist here is that every device in your signal chain has its own headroom limitation.  Any of these devices can clip if they either receive an input signal that they cannot represent or are asked to produce an output signal they cannot produce.  If clipping occurs in any component, the distortion will be passed downstream.  Unfortunately, the presence of clipping on the input can accentuate problems further downstream and make those devices more likely to clip too.

 

The bottom line is that we cannot determine where your signal chain is clipping.  You will have to isolate and optimize the gains in each component to have any hope of getting good results.

[Aj72]

I have a bit of time out this evening to try the things suggested here. Appreciate it.

[BeastAudio]

FWIW, I believe the MiniDSP OpenDRC-AN should have no problem with IIR filters under 20 Hz because it uses a 32-bit floating point engine instead of the fixed point engine on the 2x4.  Don't quote me on that though since I haven't actually verified it yet.  I do know that 32-bit float calculations work fine in my computer simulations. 

 

Of course, the OpenDRC has the same gain limitation.  When I bought my 2x4, I didn't realize how severely limited it was in this risk.  The first thing I did when I plugged in my 2x4 is assessed the gain situation.  I figured out immediately that my AVR could clip it on full-scale signal, even with the sub level control set to the minimum.  What I didn't realize until I bought a line attenuator is that my AVR itself was clipping a full-scale signal unless my sub level control was set to minimum.  Once I got the right size attenuator and got all my gains fixed, I had uncovered 10-20 dB of performance I didn't know I had.  Sadly anyone running a Denon or Marantz with sublevel at "0" as is commonly recommended is leaving major performance on the table.  Worse still, as has been recently discovered, the Oppo users are just plain screwed with no way to avoid internal clipping.

 

I guess I'm lucky that I'm not suffering from excessive noise, despite the heavy gains I'm using in my sub amps.  Of course, I'm also not trying run an LT for ULF from a sealed system, yet.

 

I will post what I wrote over on AVS about the DRC-AN and my experiences with messing around with it last night. Running filters below 20hz works just fine however, no errant behavior to speaker of. The next point to make though, and I mention it below is there are 4 jumpers you can pull on the DRC-AN to make the input stage accept up to 8v. You lose 12dB of signal doing so, but you won't be clipping the inputs if you make the switch. Output voltage is still maxed at 2v, but that shouldn't be an issue for most amps, pro or not. It is troubling that you see clipping with the D&M sub level trim at 0. I basically HAD to set mine there after maxing out the amp gains and doing the process laid out below:

 

 

 

What carp is doing is really one of the best ways to test your gain structure for real-world content. I ran through TIH and WotW last night to check and see how my gain structure in the mini was doing. Before I get to my findings, let me go through what I did to get there first.

 

First I pulled the jumpers in my open drc-an to allow 8v input. I was slightly nervous about this at first but once I got going, everything seemed fine. I have my main 8 subs up front on input 1 and the nearfield box on input 2. Before adding the mini into the chain I ran a sweep to see where I was at -10 dB reference, and worked from there. At this point my main sub trim was -5 and nearfield was -10 on the marantz, and gains on the amps were all at 50%. This provided about a 10dB hot bass curve. 

 

After adding the mini into the chain, I was surprised (somewhat) in how much I had to bump the entire chain to match the curve back to what I was getting previously. My trims on the marantz were now at 0 and -5 and the gains on the amps are now maxed.

 

The only EQ I added was a low shelf on both subs. about a 6dB boost on the main subs and an 8dB raise on the nearfield.

 

Turning off all amps I then ran through TIH and WotW and check the input and output meters and with the bass 10dB hot, at reference on the MV, I was able to get the meter to briefly touch the top, but through both scenes, it was running a little above halfway for the majority of the time. I felt this was a decent result as I never watch movies dead on reference. It takes a very brief demo session that I may go to reference or above, but it doesn't last long, and definitely NOT on those two particular scenes which are quite possibly the most demanding we know of. 

[SME]

I will post what I wrote over on AVS about the DRC-AN and my experiences with messing around with it last night. Running filters below 20hz works just fine however, no errant behavior to speaker of. The next point to make though, and I mention it below is there are 4 jumpers you can pull on the DRC-AN to make the input stage accept up to 8v. You lose 12dB of signal doing so, but you won't be clipping the inputs if you make the switch. Output voltage is still maxed at 2v, but that shouldn't be an issue for most amps, pro or not. It is troubling that you see clipping with the D&M sub level trim at 0. I basically HAD to set mine there after maxing out the amp gains and doing the process laid out below:

I also have the sub input on my OpenDRC jumpered to 8V.  Note that my Denon and probably your Marantz also maxes out at around 4V.  Before I got the OpenDRC, I ran the AVR output through a "6 dB line attenuator" (which really attenuated by 6.8 dB) to meet the 2V restriction on the MiniDSP.  If noise becomes a serious enough problem, on my subs, I may opt to go back to using the attenuator and the 2V input level on the OpenDRC to get back 5 dB or so of SNR.  I think the main issue with output voltage maxed at 2V is that the higher gain required on the amp may boost the noise to an annoying level, particularly if one needs a lot of Linkwitz-Transform to get a flat response into the ULF.  This is something that will likely vary greatly from one setup to another depending on how much LT is needed and how much noise enters the system.

 

Note that playing a heavy bass movie and watching meters isn't likely to be good enough to ensure no clipping unless the meters feature a "peak-hold" function because the strongest bass in the movies will likely be transient and too fast to see it on the meter.  Also, the meters on the MiniDSP products will never read above the top because any signal that's greater gets clipped by them.  Furthermore, if something earlier in the chain (like the Marantz) is clipping first, you' won't even reach the top of the meter.  What you need to use is a continuously full-scale test track.  If you have a device that can play multichannel digital audio files, then I can send you my 5.1 digital full-scale test file.  I should probably make a 7.1 digital full-scale test file at some point.  Otherwise, you'll need to wait for JSS to release his test disc.

 

Now that your OpenDRC unit is jumpered to 8V and assuming the Marantz has the same output limitation as my Denon, you should be able to see where your AVR clips by playing a high level continuous sine signal.  While doing so, adjust the MV, the sub trim, and/or the digital input level up until the meter changes by less than the amount of the adjustment.  Once that happens, you are clipping.  If you keep adjusting the AVR output up, you'll see the reading eventually saturate, at which point your pushing square waves through the system.  If you know the level of the test signal relative to 7.1 digital full scale (or whatever your preferred worst case level is), then you can calculate how much you need to drop either of the AVR/processor controls to ensure no clipping.  For me to pass a full scale 7.1 signal, my Denon must have its MV + sub-trim + source level controls sum to no more than about -12.  Hence, I usually leave my controls at MV: <= 0; source level: 0; sub-trim: -9.0.  I'm actually short ~3 dB here, but I like having a bit of wiggle room and have yet to see a real-world track that hits full scale 7.1.

 

After this exercise, you'll want to ensure either your MiniDSP input or output gain (it doesn't matter much actually because the MiniDSP has plenty of internal headroom above "digital full-scale") is set below zero by enough so that your shelf filters don't clip.  You'll need at least -8 dB to allow room for your shelf filters and probably a bit more to account for the transient needs of the filter.  If after doing this, you find your amp gains are maxed out and your bass is not hot enough (+10 dB) for your tastes, then you will need to install a line amplifier between the OpenDRC and your sub amp(s) and pray that your noise floor remains low enough to not be annoying.  Or you will have to compromise and accept clipping or limiting somewhere else in the chain.  You may find the limiter function of the OpenDRC useful here.  Of course, if you clip or limit earlier in the chain, then you won't really be getting all the extra bass you want when you run 10 dB hot.

 

Your amp should specify its sensitivity, which defines how much input voltage is required to achieve rated power output.  If the sensitivity is > 2V, then you'll never be able to get all the juice out of that sub amp without a line amp between them.  IIRC, when I looked at the Peavy amps, I found this to be the case, and I wouldn't be surprised if the iNukes are similar.  In reality, you probably want a sensitivity a bit lower than 2V so that when you do start clipping, you hit the amp limiter (if it has one) or clip more cleanly (in the analog domain) than you would if you were clipping in the digital domain.  The Bossobass A-14k amp has user-selectable gain that can be set very high so that 2V is plenty.  The plate amps on my current subs also have ridiculously high gains.

[maxmercy]

I use my OpenDRC-AN to compensate for my AVRs rolloff.  Below 5Hz, the filters do not act necessary like they should, so it was T&E until I got a good solution that was stable.  I also removed the jumpers on mine, and have very little noise in the system.

 

My system:

 

Subs:

 

BD Player -> nanoAVR -> Denon DN-AV500 -> OpenDRC-AN -> Amps -> Subs

 

LCRS:

 

BD Player -> nanoAVR -> Denon DN-AV500 -> Amps -> Speakers

 

Works pretty well.  I will re-tweak once my eight huge bass traps get built (~90cuft of pink fluffy total, made to look like plinths).  I hope to clean up some problems with them, free up the current corner traps to better absorb reflections and be finally done with the HT upgrade.

 

 

JSS

[BeastAudio]

Great workup SME. Your test disc would be fun to mess around with for sure. Without something of that nature, I did feel like I optimized as best I could. I had MV a good 5dB higher than I would ever watch those scenes, and even with the LT's in place, the meters rarely went above about 60% even on some of the most dynamic parts. It was the sub 10hz content that would really get it to jump. While I feel I got it almost perfect, it never hurts to have another good test to find out  

 

Well so there are at least 3 of use running this way and seeing decent results. I guess that is a good starting point!

[Aj72]

Okay so I would like to thank everyone here for helping me understand "Gain structure" better. I think I now have it sorted. I took most of the advice here with one exception. I got the balanced mini DSP 2 X 4 and sold the unbalanced. I figured it wouldn't cost me much to find out whether it would do the job and I'm already familiar with the interface. If not the DCX will probably be the next choice. My signal chain below is now much more streamlined.

 

Cary Cinema 11a -> Mini DSP 2 X 4 Balanced -> Crown XLS 5000 -> Captivator sub.

 

-The Cary preamp is great. I have had no signal strength issues with this at all, it has XLR sub out so bye bye to the Samson-s-Convert and white noise.

 

-I ran the unbalanced Mini DSP with the Cary too and still noticed the signal strength was weakened with it in the signal chain as expected. I replaced it with the balanced version and the immediate difference was around 8-10dB with the jumpers set for lowest sensitivity 4.0 VRMS. I swapped to the highest sensitivity (1.8 VRMS) and another 8-10dB was the result. So I now have between 16-20dB in signal strength more than I did before and the Behringer MIC2200 is also now gone. I used a Ratshack meter for the readings.

 

I'm yet to take an SPL measurement with things really revved up but feel confident that I won't be running out of headroom as early as I was before and hopefully not at all. No white noise, Subwoofer trim on preamp is at 0dB and running test signals tonight sub signal strength is plenty. Most people here probably know this stuff but I didn't until now and hope somebody else might get the answers by reading this thread. I asked here because I knew there would be no BS answers and appreciate the time.

[Shredhead]

Glad to hear it Aj. Getting the gains right makes ya feel better about your system for sure.

[Aj72]

Too right Shredhead. Just gave the new setup an almighty workout. My ears are bursting! I ran same Abomination vs Hulk from TIH which has some content in the past which pushes things to extreme levels and where I noticed the distortion last time. I watched the same scene at about the same level measured by Ratshack meter again just nudging 118dB, no distorion and very clean. Impressive. I then played the same scene and watched the amps specifically. No clip lights this time until I pushed it to what felt like insane level. This time I only barely saw one or two flickers from the Proel HPX-6000 and only one of the two lights this time, the other channel being run by the Crown XLS 5000 didn't flicker at all. This was rarified territory for me anyway as I would never normally go so loud. Interestingly I swapped the channels over, played the same content at the same level and the Crowns lights flickered about the same as the Proel's did but this time the Proel's didn't come on. I think given that this scene is almost the most demanding I can think of with some really hot content and it's passed the test I won't need to worry anymore. The only thing I found a bit puzzling was my Ratshack meter didn't seem to read accurately once I was up into the 116-120dB area? When I pushed the volume up for the last test it read about the same as the one before but it definitely sounded louder to me. How accurate is the Radioshack meter at those levels anyway? I've got an older analog meter with the circular setting dial. It's maximum setting is 120dB (+6). Maybe I found its limits? Anyway very very happy now I'm able to drive the system to it's full potential even though I very rarely will. The Proel amps fan is quieter than the Crown's which is a bonus. So far it's done all that's its specs suggested it would.

 

Edit: I placed the MIC2200 back in line just so that I could read the signals level. Before it was hitting maximum easily (18dB) and beyond now it's only hitting about 12-14dB during the most testing material. A great result.

[Shredhead]

Do you think there is a difference in the sound with the new gains?  If so, how would you describe it? 

 

Here is a pic of the RS digital meter's response next to a really good mic.  As a comparative tool, the RS meter is fine but you have to guess a correction file for what the real reading would be based on the mix if you want real numbers.  If you have a measurement mic, you will get closer numbers using the SPL feature in REW while doing your reference scenes.  You can calibrate it to the RS meter using main speaker's white noise. 

 

 

[Aj72]

Hard to describe but I guess the lack of distortion is the main thing. The driver doesn't lose control now whereas before it would really fly off and make that horrible sound that a driver losing control makes. Unmistakably not part of the soundtrack and noticeable above everything else. The driver was working like crazy today but it never lost control although I feel I must've been getting pretty close. I think amps and drivers are pretty close in terms of maximum output which is how I wanted it to be. I could also feel the slight increases in volume every time, raw power, didn't seem louder but impact still increased and no decrease in dynamics. Hard to describe but effortless in achieving the SPL is probably the best description. Before impact/slam wasn't increasing any more once I got to around the clipping levels and I could feel the system straining and reaching a limit due to the presentation being slightly distorted. IOW there wasn't any gain for increased gain at higher levels now there is.

 

Am I correct in saying the purple line represents the better MIC? Can't read the tags at the bottom but assuming that the rolloff below about 25Hz would be the RS meter. This could account in some part for my readings as the content giving me the most trouble is around port tune 17-20Hz I think but could be wrong on this. It's the scene that immediately follows where Hulk and Abomination first clash with flying fists after running towards each other. It's when Hulk goes flying backwards (chapter 17, 1:33.40sec to 1:33.42sec mark of the movie) When it hits hard in that range as it does in a couple of the Hulk scenes that's where the amps come under the most demand out of any scene that I've found in that movie. It's some super hot content whatever it is.

 

I do have a Dayton V2 Omnimic and have in the past used the SPL readings from the interface but I couldn't work out how to get it to read above about 115dB as it kept doing some sort of shutdown or wouldn't read at higher levels. Something I wasn't doing right in the settings for sure but didn't stress too much about it at the time and haven't had it out as the RS meter is more convenient. I should read the instructions in a bit more detail to see if I can sort it out. I think the Dayton would be capable right?

[Shredhead]

Yeah, the rolled off mic is the RS meter.

 

Dayton's software is weak. Use the dayton mic with REW and calibrate it to the meter.

[Aj72]

For those who are interested after much testing albeit without any measurements other than what I took with my SPL meter I ran into similar issues with the Mini DSP 2 X 4 Balanced. The threshold of limitation was arrived at slightly later than with the unbalanced version but limits were reached with the balanced achieving about an extra 2dB of output before distortion was noticed. The beauty of my findings meant I was prepared to have another crack with the Omnimic and MIC2200 to perform the sub EQ. Everything old is new again only this time I studied the instructions harder than I ever have to see if there was something I missed resulting in the MIC2200 being less satisfactory in my new place. I bought a new laptop since we moved and noticed in the fine print that the Windows 8 platform needed a Compatability setting changed within the Dayton software for it to work correctly. This has been the silver bullet and I've now achieved everything I hoped for. I know it's (the MIC2200) not the most complex EQ tool around but for me it's brilliant.

 

I really did like the clean sounding bass that was a result of using the mini DSP but for the limitations above it was a deal breaker. I also didn't like the way it sounded for music. Admittedly I didn't have a different set of settings for movies and music but with the MIC2200 the same settings sound equally as good. With the EQ performed by the Mini DSP one could be forgiven for thinking the Caps aren't very musical subs. Playing Roger Waters Into the Flesh which has some great bass chords throughout they lacked definition and were more muddied sounding (apologies if I'm coming across as sounding like some kind of pooncy reviewer........ not my intention here) with the Mini. When the MIc2200 is in line it's a night and day difference. I can feel the notes through the floor and my body. Same with the AC/DC Bluray Live at River Plate (Black Ice tour). Much more realistic and replicates the high octane vibe that concert experience was when I saw it a couple of years ago in Melbourne for myself. I say this with the disclaimer that it's possible somebody with more skill than I may be able to achieve a better result.