Bossobass Dave Posted April 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 ^^^Correct^^^ I bought the OPPO flagship strictly for it's analog circuitry. Every signal, no matter how or through what piece in the system it's processed, must eventually undergo a digital-to-analog conversion to be sent to the subwoofers. The layout, transformer, Saber DACs and other components of the analog side of the OPPO is what costs the extra $$ and the dead flat to <2 Hz FR is another reason to feed the subs from the analog out. Keep in mind that the OPPOs clip when redirected bass is combined with the LFE channel NO MATTER WHAT THE SW TRIM OR MVL ARE SET TO. This is simply a design flaw, and a terribly bad one at that. As Spacebug said, if you bitstream the 1s and 0s, you can use virtually any player for that with no difference in quality. I'm now looking at the Yammy RX-A3040. I may buy both it and the Marantz A7702 pre/pro and test them both and post the results on my website. If so, I'll post a link here, so stay tuned... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaea Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 Cool, thanks for the response! I'm borrowing a Oppo from a friend, on the expectation that the video quaility might be a step up, and black levels better, than my HTPC. HDMI is fine, and bitstream is fine for my use and expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKtheater Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 I use the NanoAVR as my processor and it is HDMI. You don't use bass management on the AVR as you set every speaker to large and sub to yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infrasonic Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 I'm now looking at the Yammy RX-A3040. Smartest decision I've seen from you in a long while, Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacebug Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 Cool, thanks for the response! I'm borrowing a Oppo from a friend, on the expectation that the video quaility might be a step up, and black levels better, than my HTPC. HDMI is fine, and bitstream is fine for my use and expectations. Borrow and test away! But videoquality, as it is digital signals should be the same as the sourcematerial. The difference is what postprocessing different players might have, and if you like those or not. For the PC i would recommend you to set the display colorsspace to same as the videos are encoded in, that is YCbCr iirc, in AMD graphics drivers that option is called "Pixel Format". I also doubt that you'll get better black levels, if "blacker blacks" is what you mean. Make sure that all programs or filters you use do not change the dynamic range or black/white levels, ie no conversion from digital 0-255 to 16-235 or the other way around. Then set the display output to full dynamic range (0-255), in AMD drivers that option is under Video/Color. This way you should not have any conversions and black/white levels should remain intact from the source video to the hdmi outputs. Then just use a calibration disc like DVE to calibrate the projector/tv to clip the signal to black at digital 16 and clip to white at digital 235. That way the display should display full black at digital 16 and full white at digital 235, the way videos are encoded iirc. Then it's the usual of basically disabling any and all other videoproccessing "features" that are usually activated by default in the drivers for some reason... I think this would be the right way to do it, that is atleast how I have it set up Please correct me if i'm wrong! This procedure should hopefully make any grievings about blacklevels etc from pc come to an end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3ll3d00d Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 PQ using madvr with a 3D LUT is, IME, miles ahead of a standalone bdp. It looks better than the high end lumagen's I have seen tbh (though that wasn't a back to back comparison so hard to be sure on that point). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossobass Dave Posted April 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 Smartest decision I've seen from you in a long while, Dave. OK, so I saw you have a Yammy while wading through that typically ridiculously long AVS thread. So, let me get this straight… you guys are gonna make me buy one instead of posting the SW output loopback measurement?????? Let's go boy, full review! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infrasonic Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 Nope. Don't have one, yet. Still rocking an Onkyo but will most likely upgrade to a full immersive AVR this summer/fall when the newest Yammies come out. Can't help you out with a loopback since I don't have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastAudio Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 OK, so I saw you have a Yammy while wading through that typically ridiculously long AVS thread. So, let me get this straight… you guys are gonna make me buy one instead of posting the SW output loopback measurement?????? Let's go boy, full review! There's a cx5000 in the classys at avs as we speak, as well as a 7702 new in box, $1400 I believe. I will be out of town this weekend but will try to get a loopback for you when I get home... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infrasonic Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 The cx5000 is really nice but no Atmos/DTS:X and for whatever reason they omitted one XLR jack.... the subwoofer output. Oye. I talked with a couple Yamaha guys at CEDIA and they said they will come out with a newer pre/pro soon. Probably not this summer, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKtheater Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 I owned two different Yamaha AVRs and they both had the same LP response as my Outlaw 975. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuxedocivic Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 I have a RX-A700. Lowest Avetage model and older. Hmm, if I can figure a way to get my measurement setup to the AVR I'll give it a go. Not exactly apples to apples but hopefully the same maker wouldn't change things much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeamdman Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 I'm able to adjust to gain structure on my amps and MiniDSP so that the sub trim on my AV7005 can remain at -10db. "Reference" playback is with the main volume at 0db. I should be good for this "worst case scenario", correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKtheater Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 The best thing about using the NanoAVR is that you set all channels to large so you don't even use Bass management with the AVR or processor which avoids this clipping(or it should). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3ll3d00d Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 I'm able to adjust to gain structure on my amps and MiniDSP so that the sub trim on my AV7005 can remain at -10db. "Reference" playback is with the main volume at 0db. I should be good for this "worst case scenario", correct? it won't clip in the preamp that's for sure, whether it clips during bass management is unknown (I didn't measure that) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossobass Dave Posted May 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 I'm able to adjust to gain structure on my amps and MiniDSP so that the sub trim on my AV7005 can remain at -10db. "Reference" playback is with the main volume at 0db. I should be good for this "worst case scenario", correct? it won't clip in the preamp that's for sure, whether it clips during bass management is unknown (I didn't measure that) Actually, this isn't a given, as Paul's tests of the OPPO 103 and 105 show. It doesn't matter what the trim or MVL are set to in the OPPO players when using them as a preamp. Once you introduce redirected bass from any channel and mix it with the LFE (.1) channel, in a WCS the output is clipping. This is a flaw in execution and the only way to know if ypur preamp has that flaw is to test it using Max's WCS disc and some version of waveform analyzer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3ll3d00d Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Actually, this isn't a given, as Paul's tests of the OPPO 103 and 105 show. It doesn't matter what the trim or MVL are set to in the OPPO players when using them as a preamp. Once you introduce redirected bass from any channel and mix it with the LFE (.1) channel, in a WCS the output is clipping. This is a flaw in execution and the only way to know if ypur preamp has that flaw is to test it using Max's WCS disc and some version of waveform analyzer. that's what I said (or intended to say anyway!). The preamp itself can put out a clean ~7.5Vrms, i.e. has 16dB of gain available to it over and above its rated 0dBFS output. However I have not measured it when it does bass mgmt hence I don't know whether it clips or not when it is the processor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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