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Signal Chain Loopback Measurements

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Ricci    652

That AETechron 7560 looks like a beast!

 

 

Oh they were. NO low frequency roll off on those. They were supposed to be good up to 70kHz or something like that as well. I kind of regret selling the pair I had. But they were 5 rack spaces tall and 100lbs each and really needed a dedicated 20A line to each. Would've been great for mains or an IB system.

 

I do have a few more loopbacks I can dig up and post I just have to figure out where I put those measurements.

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Madaeel    64

Holy hell! That is one big amp. Though once you get them into postion you typically don't ever move them again...unless it's a Sherbourn. :angry:

 

That has got to be the best response so far. It actually has a hump at 5hz. Beautiful.

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Ricci    652

That's a great deal...if I remember right they will do 1 ohm as well.

 

Note the scale on that graph. Not much of a bump. Probably a measurement artifact.

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MemX    97

Ok, so just pondering the possibilities of those crazy AETechron amps as a replacement for a (user-friendly) CV5000, wherein I'd need two (one to run each sub box at 2ohm) to replace the CV5000's stereo channels.

 

To ask what I'm quite sure will be stupid questions...

 

 

- I assume that with no ability to vary the gain (attenuation) in the amp itself (it looks like only the 7562 has an input attenuation knob) all gain modulation would need to be done by something before it in the chain?  (MiniDSP?)

 

- If so, how does one determine the suitable input voltage into the amp that will allow it to maximise output but with no clipping on the inputs?  (Would a Balanced MiniDSP's 2V output be enough power?)

 

- Was your amp expensive to repair when it broke?  (mentioned here: http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/av-home-theater/30031-equipment-failures-getting-acquainted-service-dept.html before you sold it here: http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/classifieds-audio-equipment/36359-ae-techron-7560-monoblocks-picker-international-branded-pair.html!)

 

- Are the fans noisy?  They look it!

 

- The PDF says that it has 'internal selection' of voltages (120v / 240v etc) (http://www.aetechron.com/pdf/7570.pdf) - does that mean it's automatic and doesn't have to be opened up?

 

 

Apologies for the annoying questions :ph34r:

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Ricci    652

Yes it would be expensive to repair. Shipping 100lb amps is not cheap. Fans are loud yes. Input sensitivity specs should be listed at AeTechron along with schematics, etc.

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MemX    97

Yes it would be expensive to repair. Shipping 100lb amps is not cheap. Fans are loud yes. Input sensitivity specs should be listed at AeTechron along with schematics, etc.

Thanks Ricci :)

 

I'll have to get my technical head on and read the spec sheets properly this time lol

 

Am considering taking a punt on getting one shipped over to the UK but it's not a cheap exercise if it is a broken unit!

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lukeamdman    154

Here's a couple amp frequency response comparisons I took today.  The CC5500 is always the red line:

 

CC5500 vs SP2-12K:

 

CCvsSP2_zpsu6em3j3p.jpg

 

 

 

CC5500 vs. XLS 2500:

 

CCvsXLS_zpsyitboogz.jpg

 

 

 

CC5500 vs. NU4-6000:

 

CCvsNU4-6K_zpszsps8psa.jpg

 

 

 

CC5500 vs. LG IPD 2400:

 

CCvsIPD2400_zpsg2y51lyj.jpg

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NWCgrad    7

The Crown did pretty well considering its reported 20 Hz HPF. It looks okay down to 10 Hz, I doubt anyone expected better results. Thanks Luke....

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shadyJ    19

Here are a couple computer sound interfaces if anyone cares:

 

MOTU UltraLite mk3 Hybrid:

MOTU_feedback.jpg

 

Behringer U-Phoria UM2:

Uphoria_feedack.jpg

 

Not bad for a $30 USB sound interface!

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andy497    6

I'm working on my signal chain and thought I could add a few data points here.  I don't fancy sweeps, as I was using an oscilloscope to look for clipping/distorted waveforms.  However, that saves me having to worry about my loopback measurements and a questionable soundcard.

 

Here's the signal generator from REW out via hdmi into an Onkyo TX-NR809 receiver.

 

screenshot of 5 hz:

i-TqSpqXM-XL.jpg

The yellow boxes at bottom are displaying period, frequency, Vpp, and Vrms.

 

With AVR at maximum possible non-clipped output, I saw 22.5 Vpp (!) at the sub out.  In the screenshot you can see that 5 hz was 20.2 Vpp, and also see the min values from 2.5 hz where it dipped to 15.3 Vpp.

 

I make that 20 * log10(22.5 / 20.2) = roughly -1 dB at 5hz

and 20 * log10(22.5 / 15.3) = roughly -3 dB at 2.5 hz.

 

Interestingly, I could push the AVR crazy hot without clipping the output.  The above measurements were taken with the master volume pegged at +18 and sub out at -2.5.  Adding another half dB chops the waveform unmistakably.  Because I assumed it would clip much sooner (my Onkyo TX 535 does), I had the sub out previously at -15 with lots of amp gain, since I regularly go above 0 master volume with music.  It looks like I can get a bunch of SNR back.  Unless I'm missing something and the AVR is not routing all the input signal to the sub preout.  My AVR was reading multipcm in with REW running, but I couldn't tell exactly what channel(s) the signal generator widget in REW was outputting to.  I'll next try to see if I can grab an actual full sweep into the scope from REW where I know I'm outputting on exclusively the sub out channel.  That leads me to my next concern, which is that I don't clip my minidsp inputs.  I can adjust my AVR down a bit to not exceed the balanced minidsp 4 Vrms max in, but I don't know if/what effect bass management has.  More testing required...

 

Also, I measured my Onkyo TX 535 upstairs and saw similar rolloff results --I think it was 1.5 dB down at 3 hz.  Its preout was even hotter - up to 27.4 Vpp or 9.6 Vrms before clipping.  

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SME    211

This is good news for Onkyo users.

 

IMO, you don't even need an O-scope to do this kind of testing if you have a downstream gain control you can adjust.  Turn that downstream gain down real low so that your extreme test signals are played at a modest level.  Play a sine tone, and listen while you increase the gain on the device you are testing.  Even a tiny bit of clipping is very audible when you are listening to pure sine waves.   For example, the RMS level of a sine wave is -3.0103 dB below the peak.  In REW, the level specified in the sine tone generator is dB RMS relative to full-scale, so "-3 dB" clips very slightly, by 0.0103 dB.  And I can easily hear this clipping in a pure sine wave.  You probably can to.

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andy497    6

...

 For example, the RMS level of a sine wave is -3.0103 dB below the peak.  In REW, the level specified in the sine tone generator is dB RMS relative to full-scale, so "-3 dB" clips very slightly, by 0.0103 dB 

...

 

That's really interesting about -3 dB in REW.  That's typically where I've been measuring.  This scope has a half-way decent FFT function, so I'll be interested to see if I can see that as THD in the output compared to -3.5 or -4, though I suspect you could do this more accurately in REW.  Now I know to listen for it too.

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