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Kvalsvoll

The Bass EQ for Movies Thread

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Not sure about the midrange problems you are experiencing.  Do you mean midrange or midbass?

 

I'll post up the BEQ correction for Guardians of the Galaxy tomorrow.  It is a substantial improvement.

 

 

JSS

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Guardians of the Galaxy:

 

Pre:

 

post-20-0-54869000-1418574063_thumb.jpg

 

Post:

 

post-20-0-60207400-1418574077_thumb.jpg

 

Now it really has some heft where needed.

 

The correction:

 

LFE:

 

1. Gain -7dB

2. Low Shelf 11Hz, Q 0.941, +6dB

3. Low Shelf 12Hz, Q 0.941, +6dB

4. Low Shelf 13Hz, Q 0.941, +6dB

5. Low Shelf 14Hz, Q 0.941, +6dB

6. Low Shelf 15Hz, Q 0.941, +6dB

7. Low Shelf 16Hz, Q 0.941, +6dB

8. Low Shelf 22Hz, Q 0.5, +0.75dB

9. Low Shelf 24Hz, Q 0.5, +0.75dB

10. Low Shelf 26Hz, Q 0.5, +0.75dB

11. Low Shelf 28Hz, Q 0.5, +0.75dB

12. Low Shelf 30Hz, Q 0.5, +0.75dB

13. Low Shelf 32Hz, Q 0.5, +0.75dB

14. Peak EQ 18Hz, Q 1.414 +4dB

 

LCR:

 

1. Gain -7dB

2. Low Shelf 25Hz, Q 0.707, +5dB (x4 filters for total 20dB gain)

 

Surrounds:

 

1. Gain -7dB

2. Highpass Filter 12dB/octave, 2Hz

3. Low Shelf 24Hz, Q 0.707, +12dB (2 filters for 24dB correction)

4. Low shelf 25Hz, Q 0.707, +12dB (2 filters for 24dB correction)

5. Low shelf 26Hz, Q 0.707, +12dB

 

 

A whole new experience.  Great movie, too.

 

JSS

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Not sure about the midrange problems you are experiencing.  Do you mean midrange or midbass?

 

I'll post up the BEQ correction for Guardians of the Galaxy tomorrow.  It is a substantial improvement.

 

 

JSS

I mean midrange, it just didn't seem v dynamic. Thinking about it, this could just be the change in spectral balance as the mains are both absolutely and relatively quieter.

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Did you run master volume 7dB hotter to make up for it?  With the BassEQ filters, to have dialogue be the same volume, you need to go +7dB on the master volume from your normal listening level.  

 

JSS

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For BEQ films, I run Master Volume at -3dB to 0dB when running at my room's 'reference'.  Even when running that high, unless I state otherwise, no film should get louder than 118dB at -3dBMV, and 121dB at 0dBMV.  For full Theatrical Reference, you would have to run at +7dBMV.  

 

JSS

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i think i asked this before so pardon the redunancy if so...

 

can the nanoAVR replace my minidsp for sub eq?

 

For EQing your sub response as opposed to EQing film content, you want to keep the MiniDSP because its filters apply to the full sub signal after bass management.

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The NanoAVR easily EQ's the sub and does a great job. The bad thing about the NanoAvr is that you can not get 9.1 or higher. It is the processor but it processes everything at 96khz rather than 48khz with processors.

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The issue with using the NanoAVR for EQing your sub is that it alters the contents of the channels in the soundtrack, before any processing or bass management has been done.  This means that you cannot EQ the sub or any of the speakers directly with the NanoAVR.  You must instead EQ them indirectly by altering the content in the soundtrack channels.  This limitation is essentially complementary to the issue of using a MiniDSP to apply BEQ.  With a MiniDSP, you can't make BEQ changes to the soundtrack channels directly.  These are two different tools for two different tasks.

 

That doesn't mean you can't try, but the results are not likely to be as good as when using the right tool.

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Thanks for your efforts maxmercy! Looking forward to the Top Gun beq, as it is one of my favorite classic's and left a little to be desired for the bass content, especially for the sound of jet engines.

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Many classic movies can be worth to watch again, but unfortunately they are not up to todays standards in sound, most notably the bass is lacking. 

Good news is that many of those can actually be improved so much that the experience will match many newer releases.

They often have good dynamics, no clipping and severe limiting, and often some low bass can be found buried low down in level.

 

I am now working on the Alien collection, especially the first movies have literally no low bass at all, but - surprise! It is there, you just need to dig it out.

To make it sound better overall is quite a challenge, but I think it can be done, and results so far are very promising.

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Kvalsoll

 

Sounds very promising...

 

Jindrak,

 

TopGun improves in many areas, the most improved is the score.  The aerial cinematography has not been equaled since.  But the film is now so hilarious (I saw it as a kid).  Apparently, there was no air conditioning anywhere in the US Navy in the 1980s, as every damned person has spray-on sweat for nearly every scene, even on the ship with Nuclear Air Conditioning! 

 

 

JSS

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I've been tinkering with my nanoAVR since Christmas and managed to get a very nice in-room response. One of my main reasons for the purchase was also to try and implement some of these BassEQ improvements.

 

Firstly, thank you for going through what must be many hours of iterations of filter application and listening tests! This kind of work is greatly appreciated!

 

My question is based on HOW to input these filter sets (some of them numbering 13 in the LFE alone- see Guardians of the Galaxy BEQ) when the nanoAVR only has 10 available PEQ slots?

More specifically: How can I add the BEQ filters along with my current room correction filters? (As info, most channels have around 6 PEQ slots utilized with REW supplied filters.)

 

I attempted to reverse-engineer what might have been going on by loading the Godzilla BEQ, but it didn't help since there was the single/same biquad was repeated in 7 PEQ slots (per maxmercy's suggestion of cascading filters for increased stability.) Is there a way to stack them within one of the 10 slots?

 

Someone care to dumb this down for me?

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You wil not be able to fit all the filters needed for some of Maxmercy's otherwise excellent Bass-EQ solutions, the filters need to run in separate slots to achieve the same transfer function.

 

You will however be able to run a modified, reduced, solution, which will improve the film, but the problem is for the heavy filtered ones, they are difficult to fix, and require several filters to get the best result.

 

I have tried some films on the minidsp that controls the subwoofer system, and it only has one or two slots available.

Still, this is able to fix many films, like Oblivion, Enders Game.

 

We run a different solution for implementation that is software based with no limit on signal processing.

 

I am now working on the Alien collection, and some of them can be significantly improved using a minidsp or nanodvr, while the most difficult require several filters to recover.

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Kvalsoll

 

Sounds very promising...

 

Jindrak,

 

TopGun improves in many areas, the most improved is the score.  The aerial cinematography has not been equaled since.  But the film is now so hilarious (I saw it as a kid).  Apparently, there was no air conditioning anywhere in the US Navy in the 1980s, as every damned person has spray-on sweat for nearly every scene, even on the ship with Nuclear Air Conditioning! 

 

 

JSS

Probably a little off topic but since I'm in the Navy at the moment, it is always appalling and rather funny that in almost every Naval movie (Hunt for Red October, Top Gun, Crimson Tide, etc) everyone on any ship or sub is drenched in sweat (which just doesn't happen) and are also wearing the NSU's (which sure as hell doesn't happen, especially underway in subs). Always comical how it looks live they just came out of the shower and then put their clothes on without drying off. Although it's probably the same to every person who's actually been in the military and then watches movies based on the military, seeing everything that's either wrong or comically exaggerated.

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My question is based on HOW to input these filter sets (some of them numbering 13 in the LFE alone- see Guardians of the Galaxy BEQ) when the nanoAVR only has 10 available PEQ slots?

More specifically: How can I add the BEQ filters along with my current room correction filters? (As info, most channels have around 6 PEQ slots utilized with REW supplied filters.)

 

 

If you are using nanoAVR for EQ already, then you will not have enough room to add BEQ for some films.  For Guardians, it was very difficult to keep from taking midbass away with the correction, hence the many cascaded filters.  Using JRMC or other HTPC software will allow you the processing power to implement some of the more challenging corrections.  

 

To reduce the number of filters for GoG's LFE correction, I would use the following:

 

1. Gain -7dB

2. Low Shelf 11.5Hz, Q 0.941, +12dB

3. Low Shelf 13.5Hz, Q 0.941, +12dB

4. Low Shelf 15.5Hz, Q 0.941, +12dB

5. Low Shelf 23Hz, Q 0.5, +1.5dB

6. Low Shelf 27Hz, Q 0.5, +1.5dB

7. Low Shelf 31Hz, Q 0.5, +1.5dB

8. Peak EQ 18Hz, Q 1.414 +4dB

 

It will not be the same, but it will be close.

 

JSS

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Coming soon - Alien collection:

 

"Mommy always told me there are no real low frequencies in the alien films.. "

 

BUT THERE ARE...

 

 

Be prepared for something very special - a collection of classic films, most of them with quite good sound originally, with Bass-EQ they become a full-range, full-dynamics very physical experience. 

 

Feel the ground crumple as vehicles pass by, low frequency rumble effects from space-ships and machines that you can barely hear, but you can certainly feel it, real shock-waves from big blast-guns that literally moves your whole body.

 

Those movies have true dynamics, letting you enjoy the sound with no clipping distortion and no excessive compression, giving real impact and realism without excessive loudness.

The dynamics were always there, the low bass just need to be found, and there you have it - excellent full-range AND full-dynamics sound.

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Pacific Rim is now near 5-Star with this correction, and from the opening scene with 'Axehead', you know it right away.  I highly recommend people try this one.  MiniDSP nano-AVR .xml will be coming when I get time, or program an .xml yourself with the data above and miniDSP's spreadsheet:

 

You, sir, are amazing.  I don't know what else to say.  

 

I've watched a couple other BEQ movies, and generally felt there was an improvement in the sound.  This was the first time I felt it was a whole new experience.  It's not the same film any more.  If only there was a way to deal with clipping in the center channel, this would be a perfect soundtrack.

 

I'm off to check out the Avengers BEQ.

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Thanks bud.

 

Check out Scott Pilgrim and TF2 for other films that has nearly as significant an improvement as PacRim.  You will like Avengers BEQ.  Much better track.

 

JSS

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Avengers was excellent as well.  An added bonus was that I didn't really detect much clipping in the center channel.  I can't believe any self respecting sound professionals would let that get through.

 

I'm not a fan of TF2, but I'll have to check Scott Pilgrim out soon.  I'm really looking forward to Kvalsvoll's Alien BEQ, as that's one of my favorite movies.  I've watched it so many times, I know the soundtrack very well.

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The Alien films are finished, I just need to monitor some more scenes, and it seems I don't have the latest updated Bass-EQ files on this computer.

 

The first one can be posted already later this evening, the monitoring is more for comments and advise for alternative filter settings for a slightly different presentation.

 

I am actually looking forward to see them myself, I have only watched specific scenes while doing the Bass-EQ, and I have never seen the special and directors' cut editions.

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