maxmercy Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 I use Audacity, SoX, WaveShop, MultiAVCHD, WavFix, LeeAudBi and TMPGEnc mainly. It will be a BluRay, as DVD cannot support 7.1 without matrixing or other lossy encoding/decoding. My disc will be 7.1 LPCM, 24 bit, 48 kHz. I am still working on generating tonebursts that will move the drivers both maximally inwards and outwards, so that you you can truly test the limits of the system without burning up voicecoils like in straight high strength sinewave signal testing. It will also have some full modulation sine and square waves for the testing of signal chains, and lots of other stuff, just need to actually get it done when I get time. I am leaning towards using MultiAVCHD for its simpler menu system, and the fact that it does not re-encode things at default like TMPGEnc does. JSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaeel Posted December 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 I will definitely take one of those when you have them ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vxds11 Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaeel Posted December 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2014 Finally watched the opening scene to EoT. That was creepy.... Here we go at -10 from ref with the subs 15db hot: My room was making some strange noises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemX Posted December 13, 2014 Report Share Posted December 13, 2014 LOL Warnings all over the internet and still you start at +5dB over Reference on the SW trim lol I like your style Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaeel Posted December 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 Hahaha no I started at -20 from reference. I ended there. That 10hz note brought on the VPL lights. Only the 2nd time that happened. That scene is definitely the most demanding so far. I could've made it reference with the subs at 5db hot but I can't turn my trim down that far in my preamp and I don't touch the gain on the amp. Honestly I wouldn't wanna go any louder. It made my room feel like it was gonna implode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shredhead Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 Just thought I'd post a couple mic'd at LP from the new movie Guardians of the Galaxy. "Starlord" pic is from the beginning of the movie where Peter escapes from Ronan's goons. I think this scene has the most consistent bass action in the whole movie. This soundtrack (being filtered aside) was almost too dynamic in the low end. It seems that the few punchy loud hits were a great deal louder than the rest of what was happening in the sub channel. I dig this movie but feel there were some missed opportunities in it for cool crushing low end effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaeel Posted December 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 I'm gonna watch this on Saturday. At least I know I can run my standard 15db hot. I'm excited for it anyway since it's in 3D and I heard it was a pretty good flick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmercy Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 Just thought I'd post a couple mic'd at LP from the new movie Guardians of the Galaxy. "Starlord" pic is from the beginning of the movie where Peter escapes from Ronan's goons. I think this scene has the most consistent bass action in the whole movie. This soundtrack (being filtered aside) was almost too dynamic in the low end. It seems that the few punchy loud hits were a great deal louder than the rest of what was happening in the sub channel. I dig this movie but feel there were some missed opportunities in it for cool crushing low end effects. Check out the BEQ thread. Corrected, the film is even better. JSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shredhead Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Check out the BEQ thread. Corrected, the film is even better. I saw that and I bet it helps this one out. I saw a couple blips at 10Hz in certain scenes that were down 35dB or so. Your BEQ looks to bring them up. Maybe it's just me but I thought this soundtrack was kind of wacky. It's almost like the bass is a rough mix or something like that. Some loud parts like in the beginning scene I posted there sound hot and compressed. Then for the rest of the movie the bass seems to get turned down or something. @Madaeel -LOL, your standard is +15dB in a sealed basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmercy Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 I know what you mean. The opening scene had a very different flavor. The geysers/waves/whatever are solidly reinforced down low, and the rest of the film gets a nice ULF addition, much more balanced. Loudest peaks outside of the intro are spread out well. It's always great when it is a good movie to watch to begin with. JSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaeel Posted December 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Well if you guys liked the movie even with the filter I'm sure I'll love it. Any chance either one of you saw it in 3D? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shredhead Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 I did. I dug it but I'm a sucker for sci-fi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaeel Posted December 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Nice. I am too. Plus it's something about a fox with a machine gun that's just badass. I just watched ST:ID in 3D and even though the bass wasn't as good as the first, the movie was awesome and so was the 3D. First time I ducked from the 3D haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemX Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 I just watched ST:ID in 3D and even though the bass wasn't as good as the first, the movie was awesome and so was the 3D. First time I ducked from the 3D haha. ST:ID is soooo frustrating to watch - I like the film, excellent acting and a fun script, but where is the bass??? Massive ship crashes. Ground shakes? Your windows rattle? Nope, barely a murmer from the subs. Gnargh!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaeel Posted December 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 Huh. I'm not the only one. My brother watched it just a couple weeks ago and said the bass was amazing(his subs roll off at 25hz). I said yah I heard that too but it doesn't go low like the first one. Well I watched it Friday night and thought the same thing you did. Where's the bass?? I mean even when they went to warp speed there was almost nothing. When Kahn crashed that ship I was thinking "this is gonna be awesome!" Annnndddd no bass. At least the movie and 3D kinda made up for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmercy Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 BEQ for ST:ID is coming....and it is very good. JSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shredhead Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 Where's the bass?? I mean even when they went to warp speed there was almost nothing. When Kahn crashed that ship I was thinking "this is gonna be awesome!" Annnndddd no bass. Especially compared to the first ST where when they go to warp, it feels like time and space just ripped open! Plus, in the 2nd movie Spock cries and Kirk gets beat up in every scene... WTF man, did they ever even watch Star Trek before?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaeel Posted December 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 Especially compared to the first ST where when they go to warp, it feels like time and space just ripped open! Plus, in the 2nd movie Spock cries and Kirk gets beat up in every scene... WTF man, did they ever even watch Star Trek before?! Hahahaha that is so damn true! I still loved the movie though. Kahn was a beast in that. Which actually reminds me that they put bass in the scene where Kahn, Kirk, and Scotty board the other ship and during the fight there were bass hits. In the first one when you guys played that ship roll scene towards the beginning, and then of course at the end where Spock steals that ship and goes to warp speed was amAzing. The 2nd one wasn't even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaea Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 I've been talking to Dave about "reference" lately. I used the tones in my pos(Sherbourn) to set all speakers to 75db. Then I used the Disney Disc with it's 85db tones and going by the calibration from the test tones off my pos, I was a couple db off on each channel. I'm curious how many receivers and pre/pros are really at "reference" at -0MV. Between that and the discs themselves being recorded hot it's hard to get a consistent level of listening. I do know whenever I watch a movie in DD I can almost always watch at reference...whatever the hell that is. There is no consistent reference at all... We did a comparison of auto room EQ tools in KC in early November. We compared Audyssey MultiEQ XT32, Dirac, ARC, YPAO, MCACC, AccuEQ, and Trinnov to a control AVR with no room EQ. "Reference" was all over the map - separated by up to 20 or 25dB of SPL level between the different vendors if you can believe it. Here is the link: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1717346-archaea-s-auto-room-eq-avr-comparison-g2g-november-8-2014-kansas-city-7.html#post28900602 The Madness So what's the deal? Why was it madness? Well - here are the post calibration frequency responses from each entry. No funny business, just absurdity. The helpers and I set the mic in the same standardized positions for each system (unless specific places were actually required, IE Anthem, DIRAC, Yamaha) and the starting position for the initial calibration was the exact same spot for ever processor. Stitch1 loaned a drum kit with a bunch of high hat stands (used as mic stands) - to ensure our mic capture positions weren't different from processor to processor. In theory, after calibration each processor should be close to the same SPL at least, if not generally reasonably close to a flatter frequency plot - RIGHT?? I mean that's the point of these systems -- RIGHT? To get the AVRs to a reference volume and try to flatten frequency response while doing so - so that each user's system in different rooms and different speaker setups has a similar audio experience?!?!?! Well, with eight different systems here is what was captured by omnimic for each as post calibration results. We followed instructions to let each auto processor optimize the room. The ONLY change we allowed post calibration was setting speakers to small and crossover to 80hz when the processor/AVR allowed. To capture the post calibration frequency response plots shown here I simply turned each AVR to -12dB on the main volume knob and played track 2 of the omnimic disk from the HTPC to the processor. The results are ridiculous. But that is the tested state of variance in these processors. Further disturbing is the fact that there is no consitent reference even among similar product families and EQ solutions because of the variance in bundled mics --- see this link for my additional testing there: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1764065-brief-comparison-between-two-audyssey-multi-eq-xt32-mics.html#post29101233 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaeel Posted December 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Yah I can understand a couple db but that's crazy. I'm not using any auto eq anyway but I did just get the 636 for the living room. I"m gonna run REW one of these days to see what my FR is. Just using the tones from my preamp and the Disney disc downstairs they were off a couple db so that's not that hard to believe. Those mics aren't the greatest. It's just between the receiver/preamp and the movie itself it's hard to say what's reference. I know we're close, I just wish there was a better standard across equipment and the mixes. Looks like the Dirac and Pioneer did the best though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmercy Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 There is no consistent reference at all... We did a comparison of auto room EQ tools in KC in early November. We compared Audyssey MultiEQ XT32, Dirac, ARC, YPAO, MCACC, AccuEQ, and Trinnov to a control AVR with no room EQ. "Reference" was all over the map - separated by up to 20 or 25dB of SPL level between the different vendors if you can believe it. Here is the link: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1717346-archaea-s-auto-room-eq-avr-comparison-g2g-november-8-2014-kansas-city-7.html#post28900602 Further disturbing is the fact that there is no consitent reference even among similar product families and EQ solutions because of the variance in bundled mics --- see this link for my additional testing there: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1764065-brief-comparison-between-two-audyssey-multi-eq-xt32-mics.html#post29101233 Good findings there. If I ever get the test disc done, it will have proper 7.1 Pink Noise tones so that you can set your system up to Theatre (or ATSC based on room volume) SPL. The EQ will still be up to your AVR or what you desire with MiniDSP or other forms of EQ. Native un-EQ'ed FR can have a great impact on SPL calibration IME. It is important to do proper EQ for the listening spot or area prior to setting levels. There is no definitive movie studio standard for film mixes for the home, and a recent paper on sound mixing stages vs theatres also concludes that FR is all over the map when mixing and playing films in cinemas, despite the outdated calibration systems in place. In the age of DVD, we got essentially what was printed in between the sprocket holes or on the CD accompanying the film as it was mixed for cinema. Now, a 'home mix', can be very different. JSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricci Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 I just assumed that everyone recalibrated their systems channel volumes after running auto EQ...Guess not. I do not use auto EQ so it doesn't really matter to me. The bit of investigation I did with it made me lose confidence in it to the point that nearly everything would need adjusted manually anyway. No wonder everyone's system can vary so much in overall loudness at "REF" volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKtheater Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Archaea, Great GTG BTW! I have been saying all along that reference for everyone is different and why so many people have different opinions on various movies. I have found only two auto EQ's that have sound good for my speakers which are Sony and Yamaha. Their responses are not flat but somehow sound like they are compared to my NanoAvr settings which is very easy to set proper levels. I have not used Dirac or Trinnov. I ran YPAO on my speakers and looked up it's settings and this is how it set my speakers: Front: Large Center: small Surrounds: large These are the same speakers. They also set the levels at or very close to 0 dBs which I know tells me reference levels will not be MV 0. So I Measured them and sure enough MV -18 sets the center channel to 75 dBs with pink noise. The other speakers are around 73-74 dBs so it was very close. If I was like the majority I would think MV 0 is reference and say I could never watch at reference as it is too loud but really I would be 18 dBs over reference! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossobass Dave Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Thanks for the data and heads up, Arch. One of those AVRs must have an amazingly low noise floor for any auto EQ to calibrate 10 Hz in the <40dB. Really, 20 years into discrete surround sound and there is still no standard for reference calibration. I use the OPPO 105 as a pre and it's volume control is 0-100 and they are not 1dB increments, so calibration of a reference level is not possible with the 105. The tones are only good for relative levels and that can only be accurate if the FR is the same for every channel. And, yes, when using the standard radio shack SPL meter, calibration of levels has to be done AFTER EQ. The meter only fairly accurately picks up peaks in a very narrow band of approximately 1 octave in the case of the subwoofer channel. I recall Rob (notnyt) having a thread wherein he compared an Audyssey mic favorably to other mics. My position on that is that it's a load of silliness. I compared the Onk Aud mic to my ACO Pacific and the difference in roll off begins in the mid 20s Hz and is off by 10dB by 5 Hz. Those mics are also passive and require a preamp with phantom power, so the presumably low end pre in the AVR can only be worse than the one I used to compare the mics. When I tried Aud, I was surprised at how much it boosted the low end. After the comparison tests, I saw why that was the case. I'm with Josh. I never followed up with later versions of Aud or any other "auto" EQ scheme because I don't believe in the principle or the results I see posted by others. "Spacial Averaging" is a flawed premise from many perspectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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