BOSSOBASS Raptor system 3

[laugsbach]

I need a return visit to Bosso's house...

 

Thanks for the screen cap from Star Trek 2009...I see why your floor moves on that scene from the ULF!    i can't wait to read Adam's thoughts on your impressive theater room. BTW, I love your new theater chair...any by the looks of it, so did Adam!

[Bossobass Dave]

Hopefully Adam made it home safely by now. If not, soon. I hope he snaps some pics of the BB Minka special edition in the living room and everyone enjoys the little gifts Virginia sent back with Adam.

 

Here's a list of some of the great scenes we mic'd while watching. In some, the mic was at the LP, others were done with the mic on the floor because Sir Adam took the main seat. (He also loved the massage chair and spent a goodly bit of time on the riser in that chair. And, notice in the pics he never let go of that bottle of beer).

 

[Madaeel]

Best part of the trip was the massage chair.....which was the front middle seat, the right riser seat and the left riser massage chair.

 

I had a ball at Dave's and the entire time I was in the theater it was a massage. The ULF in his room on the suspended floor is unbelievable. The seating just wobbles. After one movie I knew when the ULF hit. It is amazing in his room. His floor resonates at 6hz and you know every time something hits down there. It adds so much to the movie experience. We watched a bunch of clips from all the ULF heavy hitters and the entire Pompeii movie and every time it just makes you laugh at what the Raptor system is capable of.

 

It was interesting for me as well since I own a system 3 and I wanted to feel the difference between a concrete floor and suspended.

 

Well I am positive once I get the Oppo I will have 95% of that effect. Dave's flat to 3hz and below 10hz has a rising response where mine falls off below 10hz. With the Oppo our responses will be very similar and I know I'll have almost the same effect in my room even with the concrete floor. It feels amazing now but those last couple hertz add the coolest effect. My seating shakes pretty good now I just need a little more below 10hz to get that same wobble. I should just buy the damn thing now but I'm kinda hoping they release another one with 4 HDMI inputs. Wishful thinking probably.

 

I'll have some high res photos of the BB in our living room tomorrow when Lanche comes home. This thing is absolutely gorgeous and Jazzy stared at it for 15 mins and told me after I hook it up to shut up and get outta the room. Once I get it dialed in though it should be amazing in that room.

 

I just gotta say I had an awesome time with Dave and his family. I got to meet his wife Virginia, youngest son Tim, and his nephew Matt. They fed me(damn Virginia can cook!), let me use the massage chair, took me to downtown Charlotte, and of course let me consume copious amounts of beer and bass. All of this in a day. Dave I don't have the words for the all the kindness you and your family have shown Jazzy and I. Thanks to your entire family for everything and for letting me stay the weekend. I can't wait to come down again.

 

 

[Infrasonic]

MK I'm still rocking the 5.1 too...I'm so behind on things anymore. I need a 6" riser, I have mains to build...Need to update the pre-pro or go to a HTPC...Need a screen at some point. Treatments...Bleck. Meanwhile some of you guys are rockin 11.1 with 4K video or whatever the hell else new is going on.

 

Atmos.

 

We call it 7.1.4 now.

[BeastAudio]

Fun we had, indeed.

 

When we played OZ, Matt was in his room down the hall (about 50' from the HT subs) and he came into the HT asking "What the $%#@ was THAT?" We followed him to his room and repeated the scene with vid camera running. Paul's working on posting it and should be up tonight.

 

Thanks for the inspiration.

 

 

Glad I could help, that video is GREAT! I was just talking with Nick about the time a rattled the latch off the deadbolt to the basement, and had to walk around the back of the house and up through the yard to get back in the main level....haha.. Great stuff I scooped that wolverine so I will be able to let that one rip in a week or two. The wife and I are embarking on the entire marvel "xmen" series front to back. So far we watched first class then started back at x-1, but both Wolverines are part of the full set so I will be getting there at some point soon

 

Looks like yall had a blast and tore it up all weekend. How great! I will let ya recover a little from that before I make it down your way for my demo

[BeastAudio]

Oh and two other things, I will mess with that ST scene with the mini and a shallow HP vs. LT and see if I can't come up with something. I need to install speclabs but have never messed with it before. 

 

Second, I see a lot of things on shelves in your room...That would terrify me if I did what I do sometimes on a suspended floor

[Madaeel]

It's alive!!

 

 

 

 

Got it hooked up about an hr ago and Jazzy was/is thrilled. We hadn't had bass in the room for like 6 months so to go from nothing to a BB is amazing. It's a little late to fire anything else up but tomorrow before work I'll try out a couple heavy hitters. Sorry the pics are off the phone but tomorrow I'll have some high res pics done.

 

[MemX]

Niiiiice

 

Did Jazzy buy that plant pot to match it before or after the sub arrived?   lol

 

It literally blends in - it just looks like an high quality, inconspicuous side table, but I bet it delivers a nicely kick to guest that aren't expecting it!

 

 

These women-folk - moan at us about the noise but when we go out I am sure they crank it up, if my missus is anything to go by...

[Bossobass Dave]

I am jealous of your ULF    lol 

 

I swear I am rolling off at 10Hz due to my AVR - failed to get measirements done this weekend but once confirmed, steps will be taken...

 

I managed to pick up Oz 3D for £9 recently, about my limit for a BD so that will be getting watched this week I think, going from those graphs!

 

Looks like you're all having a lot of fun, it's a shame you're all the other side of a very large pond! lol

 

Man, don't be jealous. The signal chain, signal shaping and enough power to accommodate those is all that's required.

 

The Great And Powerful OZ is a stellar sonic and visual buy, IMO. Back when it was released, I posted my rave review and SpecLab screen caps and one of the re-recordists posted in the Content forum. That was not only confirmation that industry folk pay attention to our enthusiasm, it was just plain great to have one the guys who are responsible for such a stunningly good audio track pop in and comment:

 

dr.sound, on 22 Jun 2013 - 8:47 PM, said:

Hey guys,

I'm Marti D. Humphrey CAS , aka dr.sound (not Humphries) and Chris Jacobson (not Jackson).

Chris and I are Re-Recording Mixers at my facility "The Dub Stage"

http://www.thedubstage.com/gallery-facility/

 

and we mixed "Oz, The Great and Powerful"

Thanks for the kind words about the mix on "Oz"!

Bossobass Dave, Could I ask you to fix our names on your post please?

As for the Sound Design it was BOTH Jussi Tegelman and Steve Tuschar.

Jussi was the Sound Supervisor on the Film.

So guys, how LOW did we go.. ?

 

 

 

Bossobass Dave, on 22 Jun 2013 - 9:05 PM, said:

 

DONE! Sorry, my friend... going way too fast today. I'll update the ratings stars when max has the data, but I'm putting a BUY! recommendation in there whether he likes it or not.

 

This soundtrack has it all; surround steering is the best I've heard, the low end has awesome impact with the ULF undertow intact. I LOVED it.

 

The response of my system begins to roll off at 4 Hz, so I suspect you went ALL-THE-WAY down.     

 

Thanks a million for chiming in and I hope you get a piece of the disc sales 'cause they're gonna see the DataBass bounce in the following months, mark my words.

 

Marti D. Humphrey, CSA, I'm bouncing this experience because during Adam's visit we played only 2 of the many great scenes in this movie and I had forgotten how spectacular the sound design and mix are. I raved about it when I saw it, bought it and am repeating a strong buy here. This disc belongs in every bass head's collection. Positively beautifully brutal. The tornado scene is the one that brought Matt out of his room to ask "What the %$#@ was THAT? and is the scene played in the vid of his door knob.

 

Last night, my neighbor across the street stopped over and told me Saturday night he looked out the window to see if it was raining because he heard thunder, then he looked at the HT windows and saw the light was on and realized I was playing demos.

 

So, IMO, 9 pounds sterling is a steal for the 3D disc. Let us know what you think of the Tornado, Fireworks and Witch Fight scenes!!

[Bossobass Dave]

I can envision the screws backing themselves out of the sheetrock from something like that.  Just imagine the phone call...

 

"Hello, State Farm?"

"Yes, how may I help you?"

"I need to file a claim."

"Oh, I'm sorry for your lose sir.  What exactly is the issue?"

"It's kind of a long story, but all the sheetrock in my house came off the studs."

"What came of the what?!?  Can you repeat that sir?"

"All the sheetrock came off the studs in my house."

"How the heck did that happen???  Was there an earthquake or something?"

"In a manner of speaking, yes." 

 

Jman,

 

Sorry, I missed this one.

 

Awesome.

 

As soon as Adam & Jazzy report back on the performance of the new drivers for Blackbird (I'm 99% sure it will be a positive report), we'll get another pair and get your SE Blackbird together and tested. You'll have the very first all-new A-3K-D, Class D fanless amp. We're waiting for the 2RU cases to put it together and see what's what.

 

That means you'll have to review the system so we'll have some very credible feedback on the amp as well as the system as a whole.

 

Sorry for the delay, but we really had to rethink the whole system to offer a single module version that we're happy with.

[Bossobass Dave]

While I'm waiting for feedback on the Minka special edition BB, I wanted to post this...

 

I was scrolling through my photo files looking for a particular pic and I saw the following pic from when I compared the ported vs sealed version of the same driver per my formula: lop the enclosure in half, double the drivers and up the amp power.

 

After the test session, I wanted to show that one can double the sealed version in a stacked config and stay in the same footprint and height as the ported sub. That means a 4 x 15" sealed vs the 1 x 15" ported in exactly the same real estate.

 

 

Needless to say, the sealed system absolutely trounced the ported system in every category while extending the in-room FR by more than 2 octaves.

 

It rendered the Irene scene from Black Hawk Down at reference level nearly perfectly with virtually no harmonic distortion.

 

 

It makes me a bit nuts to still see the 'ported vs sealed' debate after all these years, given the overwhelming weight of stats, data and numbers written on the subject over the past 12 years in countless past debates. It's not that I have some insane unbalanced affinity for drivers in a closed box, it's just that it's a no-brainer if the goal is fidelity.

[lukeamdman]

Bosso,

 

What would be the negative affects to <15hz, if any, to having your raptor #3 system "near-field"?  Near-field meaning only several feet from the LP.  

[Bossobass Dave]

Bosso,

 

What would be the negative affects to <15hz, if any, to having your raptor #3 system "near-field"?  Near-field meaning only several feet from the LP.  

 

 

The closer you get, the more the Inverse Square Law dominates the FR:

 

 

The <15 Hz response is basically the same everywhere in the room but above that, the closer you get to the point source (near field placement), the louder it gets proportional to the overall response.

 

IOW, you revert back closer to the GP response. The FR is no longer flat.

 

That's why a close mic (getting 1" from the driver) is identical to the ground plane response.

[MemX]

Man, don't be jealous. The signal chain, signal shaping and enough power to accommodate those is all that's required.

 

The Great And Powerful OZ is a stellar sonic and visual buy, IMO. Back when it was released, I posted my rave review and SpecLab screen caps and one of the re-recordists posted in the Content forum. That was not only confirmation that industry folk pay attention to our enthusiasm, it was just plain great to have one the guys who are responsible for such a stunningly good audio track pop in and comment:

 

 

 

Marti D. Humphrey, CSA, I'm bouncing this experience because during Adam's visit we played only 2 of the many great scenes in this movie and I had forgotten how spectacular the sound design and mix are. I raved about it when I saw it, bought it and am repeating a strong buy here. This disc belongs in every bass head's collection. Positively beautifully brutal. The tornado scene is the one that brought Matt out of his room to ask "What the %$#@ was THAT? and is the scene played in the vid of his door knob.

 

Last night, my neighbor across the street stopped over and told me Saturday night he looked out the window to see if it was raining because he heard thunder, then he looked at the HT windows and saw the light was on and realized I was playing demos.

 

So, IMO, 9 pounds sterling is a steal for the 3D disc. Let us know what you think of the Tornado, Fireworks and Witch Fight scenes!!

 

Ah yes, I remember you posting about that now you mention it!  I think it's great that the industry (or at least some of it...) pays attention to what us mere customers, small in number and slightly obsessive that we are , actually think and say about things.  We can only hope that continued noise from us might actually reach those who make the filtering decisions eventually...  The number of silent lurkers combined with the active members on here and the other boards must surely contribute a significant number of sales of discs that would otherwise not get sold because their story is perhaps not that well written but the sound carries it through

 

Can't someone invite Randy Thom to be a member here?  That would be awesome if he turned up one day. lol

 

 

I will have to wait for the downstairs neighbours to go out, they're usually out on a Friday or Saturday night, then I will slip in Oz and not mention to the missus that it's a bit crazy   That sort of bandwidth in the tornado screencapture looks similar to the Oblivion 'coming in hot' scene!

 

@3ll3d00d is going above and beyond the call of duty to help me sort out REW (MASSIVE thanks to him!) so hopefully I will soon have some idea what my AVR is doing at the bottom end and what I therefore need to do for EQ.  Currently REW is saying I have a straight line rising response from 200Hz down to 2Hz, so clearly it's lying as the Onkyo 818 I have is rated -3dB @ 5Hz IIRC... lol  Although having run Tyga's 'Rack City' track at -5.5 on the MV with +13dB on the LFE channel yesterday morning when all the neighbours were out (seemingly 119dB peak on the RadioShack meter I have kindly been lent?! at which point I was scared for the room) I do appear to have plennnnty of headroom over Reference so I am pretty confident I can use some of it to boost <15Hz! 

 

Soon, my precious, soon...   I hate talking about things incessantly like an impatient child, I just want it sorted!   Thanks for your patience, everyone

[theJman]

As soon as Adam & Jazzy report back on the performance of the new drivers for Blackbird (I'm 99% sure it will be a positive report), we'll get another pair and get your SE Blackbird together and tested. You'll have the very first all-new A-3K-D, Class D fanless amp. We're waiting for the 2RU cases to put it together and see what's what.

 

That means you'll have to review the system so we'll have some very credible feedback on the amp as well as the system as a whole.

 

Sorry for the delay, but we really had to rethink the whole system to offer a single module version that we're happy with.

 

No worries.  It's pretty apparent from some of your posts it's been almost nonstop for you lately, so I figured once you had it all squared away I'd hear something.  We're kindred spirits with regards to how particular we both are, so I'd much rather wait until you're 100% certain of everything before you build mine.  That way I'll be assured there won't be any version 1.0-itis.

 

Ironically, one of the things that drew me to the BB in the first place was my infatuation with it's uniqueness.  When it comes to audio - subwoofers especially - I always seem drawn to that which is non-standard.  Before you contacted me about the BB I was actually exploring the possibility of having a one-off sub designed and built to my specifications.  I had done extensive research on the advantages/disadvantages to some of the less common alignments, such as W frame, clamshell isobaric, bandpass, etc.  My intention was to find the most advantageous for me, and one of the top priorities was it couldn't be acoustic suspension or bass reflex; after reviewing so many of them I really wanted something different for myself.  The BB would be the exception to that rule though - the thing is totally unique, and flat out cool looking, which is right up my alley.  Throw in your obvious passion for plumbing the depths while simultaneously providing excellent dynamics and you're talking my language.  Knowing I'll be the first person to have a production A-3K-D is just icing on the cake.  Ultimately I'll have something that will force people to point at it twice; once when they walk into my room ("wow, what is that?") and again when I blow them away with a movie clip ("that thing is making my chair move this much?!").

[Madaeel]

Sorry guys but my pos receiver in the living room is shutting down after just a couple seconds at higher volumes and it's not even close to reference. Jazzy said I can get that Emo receiver but until then idk if I'll even be able to do a sweep with it. I'm also working 12's again all week so it might not be till this weekend that I can run some sweeps. Sorry Dave.

 

I did get a chance to run the Hulk vs Abomination scene and in between shut-downs from my receiver the Minka seemed to handle it pretty well at -15 from reference. There's no HPF engaged on the SEQSS right now. Unfortunately any levels higher than that resulted in immediate meltdown of the receiver...

 

 

[MemX]

lol

 

I had an old receiver that did that - crank it up, wait for the bass to hit, watch it click itself off...  LoL

 

You'll sort it soon enough, don't worry!

[Madaeel]

Yah I'm gonna just buy the Emo receiver. It does 65w x 5 clean and that'll be enough for my in-walls in the living room. It sucks I can't even listen to the sub though...

 

Btw no we already had the pot that the plant is in. It was just a really strange coincidence that it matched like that. Dave said he took one look at our room and knew that that finish would be perfect. He was right!

 

Jazzy absolutely loves it. She asked me today when was I playing TIH "why are you playing with MY sub".    She's funny she won't listen loud unless it's something SHE likes, but when she does it's usually at or close to reference. Those women folk are indeed strange.

[MemX]

I agree with that last comment 100%... lol

 

Clearly you were destined to have awesome bass if even your interior decoration already matches lol

[BeastAudio]

The closer you get, the more the Inverse Square Law dominates the FR:

 

 

The <15 Hz response is basically the same everywhere in the room but above that, the closer you get to the point source (near field placement), the louder it gets proportional to the overall response.

 

IOW, you revert back closer to the GP response. The FR is no longer flat.

 

That's why a close mic (getting 1" from the driver) is identical to the ground plane response.

 

 

Been cruising through some content the last couple of nights as I have had the house to myself Wife is gone training in Chapel Hell for the week  I have been tinkering with my nearfield sub and content from movies as well as some deep bass tracks the likes of what you heard last time you were up. While I will immediately shout the praises of nearfield placement, as it really just upped the game THAT much more in my space, for HT content, you have to incorporate nearfield very delicately. Where you see the bump from the inverse square law theory, you must compensate to ensure that it doesn't dominate the FR and make you "Lose" that bottom end which it most certainly CAN do if overbearing.

 

It became glaringly apparent as I went through Elysium last night. That track was great. Several very low digging  scenes with no upper bass to cloud your perception. I LOVED it. Had the speclab been running I would have been jumping up several times to see what it was showing But I digress, if I had have just "level matched" the nearfield without looking further into what it was doing with the FR, the response would have been greatly skewed up top and I likely wouldn't have felt the soundtrack was as impactful on bottom end...If you haven't given that one a spin in a while, I would definitely recommend it

[Bossobass Dave]

Well, as you've discovered, the EQ and calibration for a nearfield must be done carefully to get it right.

 

There is also the problem of severe localization as most will run the nearfield subs way holy hell hot, relatively. In the "old days" the audiophiles dissed subs because they were easily locatable in the soundfield, according to them. I always argued that if you can localize the sub, it's not properly calibrated.

 

To prove it, I had a listening session and ran through scenes with a switcher that had EQ curves preset. One would be peaky, one would be flat but running hot and one would be flat and properly calibrated.

 

One test that fooled everyone was using a flat and properly calibrated response with the front mains shut off using a track from Sting's Brand New Day 5.1 DTS disc. I set subs up in the front right corner, front left corner and back wall behind the seats and could switch to either of the front corners or both front corners, but the rear sub was not connected to anything. When I played the track has the kick drum in the rear surrounds and when it kicked in, everyone in the test said the subs were in the rear of the room and most of them turned around immediately upon hearing the phenomenon.

 

I've never felt the need in my system. I get full BW with reference +10dB of headroom. Near field just proved to be too difficult to calibrate vs the benefit, if any. Just my experience, YMMV.

 

Chapter 7 of Elysium is one of my favorites. He wastes the robot soldier and then lasers open the CEO's ship. Check out the waveform graph to see the 4 shots, and the laser thingy on the ship afterward is one of the coolest sound design products ever:

 

 

I've always liked those transient effects when they have the bottom octaves for weight and shake. Freakin' drama!

[Madaeel]

Nice! I haven't watched Elysium yet on the Raptors so that's just another one to look forward too. Just another one that needs the level bumped a couple db....or 10.

 

Hey Dave the Emo is ordered and should be here in two days thanks to Amazon prime so hopefully soon I can give you some feedback on the Minka.

[Bossobass Dave]

Minka feedback is awesome. Waiting...

 

As something I've wanted to do for a long time, Paul and I put 100' of cable on the mic and took it to different rooms around the house while playing scenes.

 

Unfortunately, with that much cable, the rig needs a buffer circuit and we weren't gonna go to all that trouble, so we just adjusted the signal level way down below the wacky noise floor and then bumped it back up in SpecLab.

 

When we took the mic to the hallway and closed the door (which is where we made the vid of the door knob), here's what the result was:

 

 

The 6 Hz floor resonance is lowered and, as one might expect, the top end is filtered by the closed door, but the brunt of 10-50 Hz is pounding the snot outta the door.

 

The 10 Hz hit from the Elysium scene registered in the breakfast room down stairs, moving the floor, as my wife said while she was eating and we were carrying on over the weekend. I thought she was embellishing, but measurements don't lie.

[BeastAudio]

Well, as you've discovered, the EQ and calibration for a nearfield must be done carefully to get it right.

 

There is also the problem of severe localization as most will run the nearfield subs way holy hell hot, relatively. In the "old days" the audiophiles dissed subs because they were easily locatable in the soundfield, according to them. I always argued that if you can localize the sub, it's not properly calibrated.

 

To prove it, I had a listening session and ran through scenes with a switcher that had EQ curves preset. One would be peaky, one would be flat but running hot and one would be flat and properly calibrated.

 

One test that fooled everyone was using a flat and properly calibrated response with the front mains shut off using a track from Sting's Brand New Day 5.1 DTS disc. I set subs up in the front right corner, front left corner and back wall behind the seats and could switch to either of the front corners or both front corners, but the rear sub was not connected to anything. When I played the track has the kick drum in the rear surrounds and when it kicked in, everyone in the test said the subs were in the rear of the room and most of them turned around immediately upon hearing the phenomenon.

 

I've never felt the need in my system. I get full BW with reference +10dB of headroom. Near field just proved to be too difficult to calibrate vs the benefit, if any. Just my experience, YMMV.

 

Chapter 7 of Elysium is one of my favorites. He wastes the robot soldier and then lasers open the CEO's ship. Check out the waveform graph to see the 4 shots, and the laser thingy on the ship afterward is one of the coolest sound design products ever:

 

 

I've always liked those transient effects when they have the bottom octaves for weight and shake. Freakin' drama!

 

Yessir, I agree that on a suspended floor I likely wouldn't feel the need for nearfield either. It serves one absolutely fantastic purpose though; I can calibrate flat and listen to music to near -10 ref. while wife is sleeping and not annoy her. With the front setup, I like to keep it hot, but it travels right up the wall to the third floor and I can't get away with anything higher than -20 or -25 depending on what I am listening to For that alone, I feel it was an incredible investment  

 

Oh and that scene, as well as a couple nearing the end of the movie were just awesome. There is one scene change when Max is thinking back to his childhood after his "incident" at the factory that I felt like had a really nice sweep to quite low digits. I don't know if that one has been screen capped or not, but it caught me by surprise and it was after playing it over again I knew I was really going to look forward to the rest of the track...

[maxmercy]

I'm on a slab, and the near field cluster combined with front wall cluster actually netted the best overall Freq response with the near field properly delayed. The near field cluster fires into the back of a futon mattress, so midbass gets attenuated to a degree. I really like it, but someday would like to try crowson transducers.

 

I need to see Elysium again now that I can reproduce that content.

 

JSS