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BOSSOBASS Raptor system 3


Madaeel

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Hi Luke,

 

But the title of the vid is "GHorns at 136.4dB at 20 Hz". It's actually 20+60+100 Hz with no simple way to extract 20 Hz from the total dBSPL.

 

I'm confused as to how the measurement works, as it appears to only capture a single frequency?

 

And, why doesn't the Ghorn show 30 Hz output during the 10 Hz fundamental? (Maybe the answer is the same as the answer would be to the first Q)

 

Can you mic that scene through SpecLab? Or, post a file of the audio and I'll SL it? The camera mic is useless. ;)

 

 

As MK already pointed out, the Ghorn's have a sharp 22hz LPF, so that's why 30hz is so low with the Othorns off.

 

The software points out what frequency has the highest SPL at any given moment, so that's why as EOT goes through it's sweep you only see 25hz, then 20hz, then 15hz.  

 

I can run it through spec lab with my UMIK if you want.

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He has a 22 hz LPF on the GH's I believe. Luke I know you posted on the other thread thinking I was starting trouble but it was a misunderstanding with no ill will. The GH's would produce the harmonics much louder than the fundamental at 10hz if you let it but like I said you know that and why you have it setup the way you do, I would think.

 

No problem man.  I was super grumpy this morning...as I'm sure you could tell  :)   Sorry about that.  

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Are you really running the GH over only one octave 12-24Hz? Dang...I believe you meant a 22Hz Low pass not high pass.

 

Yes sir.  The Ghorns have a 13hz 48db HPF and a 22hz 48db LPF :)

 

I have massive room gain at 25hz, and the Othorns are better from 30hz and up anyway!

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As MK already pointed out, the Ghorn's have a sharp 22hz LPF, so that's why 30hz is so low with the Othorns off.

 

The software points out what frequency has the highest SPL at any given moment, so that's why as EOT goes through it's sweep you only see 25hz, then 20hz, then 15hz.  

 

I can run it through spec lab with my UMIK if you want.

I saw that in the video (that the software grabs the highest level frequency, like any other SPL meter) but the dBSPL reading is still the total, yes?

 

The UMIK can't handle the truth at 136dB. I thought you could use whatever mic you used in the vid with the SPL meter software, and could you tell me more about it?

 

I'd just like to see the spectral content (SpecLab cap) captured accurately at the seats. How loud it plays over reference is irrelevant to me.

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If you listen that 10 hz tone is still getting some input as the 30hz portion is registering on the computer.  It is either playing the 30hz portion louder than 10hz or your computer is defaulting to 30hz. 

 

Well, even though the Ghorns are crossed at 22hz, they're still playing at a low level at 30hz still.  

 

When the sweep first starts, the Ghorn's hit ~106db at 30hz when the tone is really strong, and during the 10hz portion when 30hz isn't nearly as strong, it's still registering ~100db at 30hz, but that's the noise floor of the meter.  

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I saw that in the video (that the software grabs the highest level frequency, like any other SPL meter) but the dBSPL reading is still the total, yes?

 

The UMIK can't handle the truth at 136dB. I thought you could use whatever mic you used in the vid with the SPL meter software, and could you tell me more about it?

 

I'd just like to see the spectral content (SpecLab cap) captured accurately at the seats. How loud it plays over reference is irrelevant to me.

 

I'm not sure what you're referring to with the "dBSPL being the total" ?

 

My CSL calibrated UMIK doesn't register over ~126db.

 

For these video's I'm using the SPL Lab USB meter:

 

http://spllabusa.com/us/products/usb-bass-meter.html

 

It's basically a term lab clone.  Good to 183db, accurate within 0.1db, but only good down to 10hz instead of 1hz like the term lab.  

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I'm not sure what you're referring to with the "dBSPL being the total" ?

 

My CSL calibrated UMIK doesn't register over ~126db.

 

For these video's I'm using the SPL Lab USB meter:

 

http://spllabusa.com/us/products/usb-bass-meter.html

 

It's basically a term lab clone.  Good to 183db, accurate within 0.1db, but only good down to 10hz instead of 1hz like the term lab.  

 

 

I see now, yes, the graph highlights the loudest frequency and the dBSPL is the total, as I suspected. IOW, the 20 Hz tone is simultaneous with 60 Hz and 100 Hz (and any harmonics) adding up to the dBSPL reading.

 

Can you SL the scene with the UMIK at a level the measurement system can handle and post it here?

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I see now, yes, the graph highlights the loudest frequency and the dBSPL is the total, as I suspected. IOW, the 20 Hz tone is simultaneous with 60 Hz and 100 Hz (and any harmonics) adding up to the dBSPL reading.

 

Can you SL the scene with the UMIK at a level the measurement system can handle and post it here?

 

The Ghorn's have a LPF at 22hz, so there's nothing at 60hz and 100hz playing, so I'm not sure what this "adding" is you keep referring to.

 

The SPL Lab is reading 136.4db at 20hz and just 20hz.  If you look at the bar on the bottom for what frequencies are being measured, it's only showing 20hz.  There's nothing at 60hz and 100hz.  

 

That 136.4db also doesn't change when I have the Othorns on and there are much more frequencies simultaneously playing.  It still shows 136.4db at 20hz during that part of the EOT clip.  

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First, filters don't work on harmonics. Second, I was looking at the vid of O and G combined, which I looked up after MKT's mention of a vid and before you posted the link to the Ghorn vid, and there is nothing on the graph showing the rest of the content in the scene in that graph either. The tones above the bottom frequencies are down approximately -5 to-7dB, so they should definitely show up on that graph at 136dB total dBSPL.

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First, filters don't work on harmonics. Second, I was looking at the vid of O and G combined, which I looked up after MKT's mention of a vid and before you posted the link to the Ghorn vid, and there is nothing on the graph showing the rest of the content in the scene in that graph either. The tones above the bottom frequencies are down approximately -5 to-7dB, so they should definitely show up on that graph at 136dB total dBSPL.

 

Well good grief people... :)

 

How about this, I'll record a video of 20hz at say ~120db, and then while that tone is playing, I'll add another 40hz tone around ~115db.  According to your theory of how the meter is calculating the SPL by adding frequencies/harmonics together, once the 40hz tone is added the SPL for 20hz will increase?

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Well good grief people... :)

 

How about this, I'll record a video of 20hz at say ~120db, and then while that tone is playing, I'll add another 40hz tone around ~115db.  According to your theory of how the meter is calculating the SPL by adding frequencies/harmonics together, once the 40hz tone is added the SPL for 20hz will increase?

 

Well, I ran through the test, and playing 40hz with 20hz actually reduced the 20hz reading by a few DB.  

 

Also, the harmonics on these horns looks pretty low to me...

 

Untitled_zps18c01a17.png

 

 

 

BTW, 115db at 20hz is about 1/4" peak-to-peak excursion...lol

 

The 2nd harmonic is down ~40db...

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Well good grief people... :)

 

How about this, I'll record a video of 20hz at say ~120db, and then while that tone is playing, I'll add another 40hz tone around ~115db.  According to your theory of how the meter is calculating the SPL by adding frequencies/harmonics together, once the 40hz tone is added the SPL for 20hz will increase?

So, to my first question, you're saying that the SPL meter reads only one frequency?

 

Of course, 120 + 115 is 124dB. Are you saying the meter will ignore the 115dB?

 

Josh's GP results show that at 120dB at 20 Hz 2HD was down -25dB. At 25 Hz, 2HD was down -20dB. At 135dB in your vid, 2HD would be above the noise floor for both of those fundamentals.

 

Again, the vid I have been referring to is the Othorn + Ghorn. You posted the digital feed SL graph I posted earlier so you are aware that each of the 5 descending fundamentals is simultaneous with 1 to 6 harmonic tones. I simply asked why they don't show up on your meter's graph. You answered by posting a link to the product site. Sorry if I don't know how else to ask the question.

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So, to my first question, you're saying that the SPL meter reads only one frequency?

 

Of course, 120 + 115 is 124dB. Are you saying the meter will ignore the 115dB?

 

Josh's GP results show that at 120dB at 20 Hz 2HD was down -25dB. At 25 Hz, 2HD was down -20dB. At 135dB in your vid, 2HD would be above the noise floor for both of those fundamentals.

 

Again, the vid I have been referring to is the Othorn + Ghorn. You posted the digital feed SL graph I posted earlier so you are aware that each of the 5 descending fundamentals is simultaneous with 1 to 6 harmonic tones. I simply asked why they don't show up on your meter's graph. You answered by posting a link to the product site. Sorry if I don't know how else to ask the question.

 

"So, to my first question, you're saying that the SPL meter reads only one frequency?"  No.  In the view of that software in the videos, it's set to display the frequency with the most SPL at any given time in the large green font.  If there were another frequency at or over 120db, you'd see it on the screen on the lower portion.  

 

"Of course, 120 + 115 is 124dB. Are you saying the meter will ignore the 115dB?"  No, it shows 120db at 20hz and 115db at 40hz independently and without combining them.

 

"Josh's GP results show that at 120dB at 20 Hz 2HD was down -25dB. At 25 Hz, 2HD was down -20dB. At 135dB in your vid, 2HD would be above the noise floor for both of those fundamentals."  Yes, but my Ghorns are different than Josh's (way more beefed up bracing), and mine are obviously in a room and not outside like his.  I'm getting ~10db of room gain at 20hz.  How room gain affects the harmonics, I have no idea, but I'm obviously not getting as much as Josh's tests either way.    

 

"Again, the vid I have been referring to is the Othorn + Ghorn. You posted the digital feed SL graph I posted earlier so you are aware that each of the 5 descending fundamentals is simultaneous with 1 to 6 harmonic tones. I simply asked why they don't show up on your meter's graph. You answered by posting a link to the product site. Sorry if I don't know how else to ask the question.  I thought you were asking about the meter I was using, so I sent you a link.  As to why the 60hz and 100hz fundamentals aren't showing on the SPL Lab, I think I've proved why.  One, I have a 22hz LPF (yes yes I know a filter doesn't filter harmonics, but read on), and second, those harmonics in my room are so far down they're well below the noise floor of my meter. 

 

 

EDIT:  Corrected a few typos above.  

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So, to my first question, you're saying that the SPL meter reads only one frequency?

 

Of course, 120 + 115 is 124dB. Are you saying the meter will ignore the 115dB?

 

Josh's GP results show that at 120dB at 20 Hz 2HD was down -25dB. At 25 Hz, 2HD was down -20dB. At 135dB in your vid, 2HD would be above the noise floor for both of those fundamentals.

 

Again, the vid I have been referring to is the Othorn + Ghorn. You posted the digital feed SL graph I posted earlier so you are aware that each of the 5 descending fundamentals is simultaneous with 1 to 6 harmonic tones. I simply asked why they don't show up on your meter's graph. You answered by posting a link to the product site. Sorry if I don't know how else to ask the question.

 

Whoops, I missed that.  

 

Here's the response of the subs with the mains turned off (how it is in all the videos)

 

horns_zpsbb7fb60b.jpg

 

I guess 60hz and 100hz are just too low of a level?  I can see how 100hz would be, but it looks like 60hz should be on there.  

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I think the problem is that you have your bar graph scale set to 120dB as the minimum.

 

Still, when the 10 Hz fundamental plays, the 3rd harmonic tone in the effect, 30 Hz registers at 127dB. But, when the 15 Hz tone plays, the 3rd harmonic tone in the effect, 45 Hz, which is the same level as the 30 Hz tone above 10 Hz, does not show on the bar graph.

 

If you changed the vertical scale of the bar graph to include all of the content, the tones up to 60 Hz would show and that explains my confusion when viewing the vid for the first time, at a glance. :)

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I think the problem is that you have your bar graph scale set to 120dB as the minimum.

 

Still, when the 10 Hz fundamental plays, the 3rd harmonic tone in the effect, 30 Hz registers at 127dB. But, when the 15 Hz tone plays, the 3rd harmonic tone in the effect, 45 Hz, which is the same level as the 30 Hz tone above 10 Hz, does not show on the bar graph.

 

If you changed the vertical scale of the bar graph to include all of the content, the tones up to 60 Hz would show and that explains my confusion when viewing the vid for the first time, at a glance. :)

 

The lowest I can set the vertical scale to is 120db.  Horizontal is 10-120hz.    

 

I'm guessing that since the noise floor is so high, ~97db, that readings under 120db must not be that accurate?  The specs even say the amplitude range 120-183db.  

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The lowest I can set the vertical scale to is 120db.  Horizontal is 10-120hz.    

 

I'm guessing that since the noise floor is so high, ~97db, that readings under 120db must not be that accurate?  The specs even say the amplitude range 120-183db.  

Interesting.

 

On the site you posted the link to, they have a YT vid and their bar graph vertical scale is 100-160dB:

 

279be6f5167cdf6ef406c9d5b42ae20f.png

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