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maxmercy

The Low Frequency Content Thread (films, games, music, etc)

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Ricci    637

I liked Kong. I mean it's an action movie about a giant ape fighting other giant creatures so it's not going to be the most cerebral or emotional film ever but it is a fun movie. I thought it was good when taken for what it is.

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MrEdge    12

Thanks MrEdge!  Is Kong a good movie?  Or just a bass-fest?

 

JSS

 

It was pretty freaking awesome movie to me. I've watched a few times already and the bass helps make the ride even better.

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SME    201

Has anyone else noticed that the new forum software update broke some things?  For starters, some of the links on the main page lead to nowhere useful.  But the worst part may be that several of the PvAs can't be viewed.

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maxmercy    330

Oh man....that sucks.  I remember re-doing all the links when the data-bass was small and the first post was deleted, then nube re-did all the links about a year after that.

I really don't have time to do it again.

 

JSS

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SME    201

Yeah.  I don't suppose anyone here has any info on the software update and if any release notes came with it.

Anyway, I see two styles of links on the front page

http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/12-the-low-frequency-content-thread-films-games-music-etc/?p=269

http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/12-the-low-frequency-content-thread-films-games-music-etc/page-17#entry465

The latter example is broken, presumably because of a change in pagination of the content.

As for the PvA graphs, I don't know what's going on yet.  Some are broken, and some are not.

 

Edit: The other thing I noticed is that post Likes seem to be completely anonymized now for some reason.  Maybe that's a configurable option.

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minnjd    42

Well I've read two reviews of 'Dunkirk' that specifically mention extremely loud and deafening sound effects.  Sounds like Nolan hasn't learned his lesson from the feedback to Interstellar.

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Infrasonic    149
8 hours ago, minnjd said:

Well I've read two reviews of 'Dunkirk' that specifically mention extremely loud and deafening sound effects.  Sounds like Nolan hasn't learned his lesson from the feedback to Interstellar.

There is no "lesson to learn" for Nolan. The sound is exactly how he wants it, unfortunately.

Still.... looking forward to it. I can handle some good ol' fashioned "loud and deafening" IMAX sound. :D

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maxmercy    330

Etymotics to the rescue!  I need to find a true IMAX to see it in, though.

 

JSS

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Ricci    637
On ‎7‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 7:25 PM, SME said:

Yeah.  I don't suppose anyone here has any info on the software update and if any release notes came with it.

Anyway, I see two styles of links on the front page

http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/12-the-low-frequency-content-thread-films-games-music-etc/?p=269

http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/12-the-low-frequency-content-thread-films-games-music-etc/page-17#entry465

The latter example is broken, presumably because of a change in pagination of the content.

As for the PvA graphs, I don't know what's going on yet.  Some are broken, and some are not.

 

Edit: The other thing I noticed is that post Likes seem to be completely anonymized now for some reason.  Maybe that's a configurable option.

Maybe try PMing Kyle. I don't know jack squat unfortunately.

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SuperFist    0
On 7/18/2017 at 6:10 AM, minnjd said:

Well I've read two reviews of 'Dunkirk' that specifically mention extremely loud and deafening sound effects.  Sounds like Nolan hasn't learned his lesson from the feedback to Interstellar.

So it's safe to say this will be a Bass Fest when it's released on disc! Can't wait! B)

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SME    201
3 hours ago, Ricci said:

Maybe try PMing Kyle. I don't know jack squat unfortunately.

I went ahead and added a post in the proper sub-forum (imagine that) and PMed Kyle about it.

On 7/18/2017 at 7:10 AM, minnjd said:

Well I've read two reviews of 'Dunkirk' that specifically mention extremely loud and deafening sound effects.  Sounds like Nolan hasn't learned his lesson from the feedback to Interstellar.

This isn't really Nolan's problem, is it?  It's *every other* director's problem when cinemas turn the volume down permanently because of complaints during a Nolan movie showing.  :P

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minnjd    42

Well it's his problem when he has his mixers crank effects up so far that they become compressed, honky, clipped messes (DKR, Interstellar) with heavily filtered LFE's.

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MemX    94

I think perhaps Mr Nolan needs to have a hearing test if he is consistently ruining, sorry, turning up mixes so he can hear them how he wants to.

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On 7/11/2017 at 11:02 AM, maxmercy said:

Thanks MrEdge!  Is Kong a good movie?  Or just a bass-fest?

 

JSS

I'm with Ricci on this one. Was it an Oscar winning flick? No. But the bass definitely helped the film.

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minnjd    42

Just read a depressing article.  A guy at a site I follow is a big Nolan fan and he drove 500 miles to see Dunkirk in 70mm.  That's pretty cool, but he then went on to say two of his favorite audio demo discs were The Dark Knight Rises and Interstellar due to their 'incredible sound.'  <_<

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MemX    94
2 hours ago, minnjd said:

Just read a depressing article.  A guy at a site I follow is a big Nolan fan and he drove 500 miles to see Dunkirk in 70mm.  That's pretty cool, but he then went on to say two of his favorite audio demo discs were The Dark Knight Rises and Interstellar due to their 'incredible sound.'  <_<

 

I have to say, I did like Interstellar - it's probably one of my favourite films - and the soundtrack had a lot to do with it.  The score was epic IMHO and suited many of the scenes well, and sometimes the somewhat-louder-than-usual volume of it helped build tension or add extra surprise to sudden moments.

 

The speech problems noted previously are probably the biggest issue - it's fine to crank it up so it's clear when you're on your own, one has the choice of what to do with one's hearing, but having the parents round to watch it while the neighbours were in meant riding the volume buttons on the remote up and down with some regularity.

 

Anyway, I'm waffling on with nothing really to add to the conversation :mellow: lol, only to say that I do wonder if Nolan actually has hearing issues that he is not is not aware of.  I'm looking forward to Dunkirk, it seems to have great reviews, so I guess we can but cross our fingers that the mix might actually be decent...

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Infrasonic    149
3 hours ago, minnjd said:

Just read a depressing article.  A guy at a site I follow is a big Nolan fan and he drove 500 miles to see Dunkirk in 70mm.  That's pretty cool, but he then went on to say two of his favorite audio demo discs were The Dark Knight Rises and Interstellar due to their 'incredible sound.'  <_<

To be fair, the sound is pretty "incredible". It's just a description that can be taken many a-ways...

Nolan likes a big 'wall-of-sound' coming at you. That's his style. Not much surround use. Lots of bass. Powerful bass. The best bass? No. Powerful? Uh, yeah. Sure we can nitpick it and say it sounds, "flat, bloated, compressed, ..." whatever. That stuff is all true but it doesn't stop it from being true that it is also.... "incredible". That's just one man's words for it. Doesn't have to be yours too.

I saw Dunkirk and it was a fantastic film. The mix, ehh... it was what it was. LOUD! I can complain or enjoy the ride.

 

I'm going to enjoy the ride. :)

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minnjd    42

I know I'm probably over reacting, I'm just feeling like this today:

297.png

 

As far as Nolan having hearing damage, I doubt it.  I think you can sustain a constant 90-100 dB for up to two hours a day without permanent hearing damage (according to OSHA).  Even with as loud as Nolan's movies get it's doubtful they'd hit that limit.

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Infrasonic    149

I've seen every Nolan movie in IMAX since The Dark Knight. Every movie has sounded like this. So I expected this kind of sound. People go in to a Nolan movie expecting something else. I don't feel sorry for these people. The guy is pretty consistent. Fool me once...fool me twice...

 

It is loud and I liked it loud.

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SME    201

Don't forget that cinema tracks have all kinds of EQ balance problems due to the effects of calibrating pink noise response to the X curve target.  Both the high frequencies (where the X curve is sloped) and the low frequencies (where the X curve is flat and the natural build-up of low frequency room energy is attenuated to meet the flat target) of the direct sound are diminished in a typical cinema or dub-stage.

This is important for two reasons.  First, there is effectively less headroom to work with than would otherwise be expected.  Mixers end up needing to boost both low and high frequencies in the track to combat a weak, distant, nasally sound.  This increases the need for compression and likelihood of clipping to arrive at a track that has impact in an actual cinema.  Second, the low frequency part of the calibration will lead to inconsistent presentation between dub stages and cinemas.  At home especially, both the high and low frequency portions will tend to be too hot on a system that's optimized for quality music playback.

Inconsistent tonal balance, especially excessive high frequencies (mostly a problem at home) or insufficient low frequencies (which can happen in a cinema that's acoustically more live than the dub-stage was), tends to make the sound a lot more harsh and apparently loud than it would sound if the presentation were balanced.  Sound even just a bit top heavy can be very irritating, so this could explain the loudness experienced at many IMAX cinemas.  Also, overloaded speakers will tend to produce lots of distortion that can shift the tonal balance upward.

I don't think movies are likely to induce hearing damage in most cases, but it's certainly possible if the presentation is of poor quality.  It would also be ill-advised to spend many hours of each day listening to louder movie tracks by directors like Michael Bay or Nolan.  I know that when I recently watched Transformers 2 in my living room, I definitely experienced a slight temporary threshold shift, indicating to me that I would not want to be listening to that kind of thing on a daily basis.

As for OSHA standards, unfortunately recent evidence suggests that they are way too lax to actually protect hearing.  European standards are much more strict with restrictions kicking in at similar minimum SPLs (80 dBA, IIRC) but recommended exposure times being cut in half for each 3 dB increase.  If 8 hours is an appropriate time limit for 80 dBA (not sure if that's exactly right), then Euro standards would recommend that exposure at 100 dBA should be limited to only ~5 minutes per day.  Most movies probably average closer to 70-75 dBA, with peak passages perhaps reaching or exceeding 100 dBA for only a few seconds or less, but I'm sure there are exceptions.  Hearing damage is probably much more of a concern for the mixers themselves who spend many hours (more than 8 a day usually) working on the tracks.

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minnjd    42

Well the potential for movies to cause permanent hearing damage is certainly there, no doubt about that.  Under reference playback I think it can hit peaks of well over 110dB if all channels are bumping.  By and large it's rare for any movie to hit that level for extended periods, but some can average over 90dBA (Transformers AoE comes to mind).  Even though Nolan's movies can get awfully loud and compressed I'd never for a minute say they were anywhere near as relentless loud as that.

I do think that many (most?) theaters can't handle a Nolan soundtrack in it's element though.  I remember a lot of ink being spent on how Interstellar was mixed to the very limit of an IMAX sound system's capability.  Take that kind of thing and put it on a traditional multiplex sound system and it's pretty much guaranteed to sound like crap due to amp distortion.

The EQ issues between theater and home playback are a lot less of a problem since they started doing HT mixes.  Even if they don't do a full nearfield remix they usually re-equalize the theatrical track to tame the boosted treble frequencies.  They may not give a hoot about bass but even HTIB systems can reveal overly trebly sound.

And yes, I too wonder if the OSHA standards might be a bit lacking.  I run our church band at about 90-92 dBA and after a technical run through and two services my ears definitely feel like they have cotton in them.

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djbluemax1    6
59 minutes ago, minnjd said:

And yes, I too wonder if the OSHA standards might be a bit lacking.  I run our church band at about 90-92 dBA and after a technical run through and two services my ears definitely feel like they have cotton in them.

Probably a good idea to use musician's ear plugs (something like the Etymotics Ety Plugs) after the technical run through at that point.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B010C8HZSY/ref=mp_s_a_1_5_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1501083096&sr=8-5&keywords=etymotic+earplugs

Do the run through without, to double check and confirm everything is GTG, then use the plugs to attenuate by 13-20db, while still allowing for decent fidelity (unlike regular foam plugs which tend to attenuate higher frequencies making things sound muffled).

I've used (and still use) Ety plugs for certain applications, and they work well.

I bought these to try

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B019M576XW/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1501083683&sr=8-1-spons&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=eargasm+high+fidelity+earplugs&psc=1

for both, the slightly different design, that fits about flush to the ear canal (with small, flexible tabs for easy extraction) AND the convenient metal keychain case included. I now keep these on my keychain 24/7, in case I inadvertently find myself in a loud environment without advanced planning.

 

Max

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