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The Low Frequency Content Thread (films, games, music, etc)

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All my music is analyzed according to R128 volume leveling standards. In order to play the quietest song (Felix Hell - Organ Sensation - Guilmant: Sonata No. 1 in D minor: II. Pastorale) the same volume as the loudest song (Godsmack - Faceless) requires a 33.9 dB adjustment in volume. With 24-bit recordings, stereo tracks can easily have their average levels down 30+ dB from peak. The capability of your equipment and how high you turn it up determines the peak volume, not the encoded levels. Playing 20-30 dB above theatrical reference just means the song was encoded that much quieter to give room for dynamic peaks. 

Do you use R128 analysis to normalize track-by-track with the classical stuff?  If so, I think something is off here.  In classical music, it's quite typical to have pieces that are almost entirely piano or pianissimo, which may have average level 20-30 dB below that of a typical theatrical track.  That doesn't mean it should be played back 20-30 dB higher, at least if you mean to follow the artists' intent.  This is what a so-called "normalize by album" approach does for you.  It analyzes the whole album using something like R128 and adjusts the playback level of each track uniformly so the piano tracks are distinct from the forte tracks.

 

Note that even high dynamic range digital music is frequently peak normalized, whether directly by analysis and subsequent amplification or indirectly via clipping or limiting.  For the better albums, one only hits full-scale maybe once or twice, but that means your system is still being asked to play peaks that it may not be capable of playing.

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 It was always the same smug dismissiveness anytime mention was made of something that wasn't Jazz in the Pawn Shop, Diana Krall, forty year old yacht rock remasters or whatever the critics' darlings of the month were that seemed to always be immaculately recorded, exceptionally bland albums that managed to be less desirable than listening to a geriatric talk about bowel movements.

LOL!  I do wish that there were more bands that got to record at the high levels of bands like Steely Dan.  I remember a few years ago I picked up an album from the band Train that was mixed in surround.  I was interested in hearing more of a modern band in the format and it was one of the harshest recordings my ears have ever had to deal with.  It seems silly that we're in the two thousand and ten's and there are still bad sounding recordings being sold.  I guess producing digital audio to sound pleasant isn't as easy as analog was.  I know I've struggled at it.  

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So I ran Eot today wondering how hot I really play and watched the RTA. I have my sanway in a monster cable AVS 2000 and it lasted until the 10hz portion while reaching 129 dB! I think I blew a fuse in it or something but I plugged it into my DIY 20 amp triggered outlet and it played the scene with no problems hitting 132 dB at the 10hz portion. So does that mean I am 12 dB hot? The 30hz hit 125 dB, 25 hit 127 dB, 20hz hit 128 dB, 15hz hit 129 dB.

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Great stuff.  Glad to see the DD 5.1 track listed for The Expendables 3 here as well.  That's the one I use since I use a server and my Jriver version does not play back the Atmos track so I can't convert it to TRUHD through my Integra 80.3.  I thought this was a good one anyway.  Is there a chance that you could do the same thing for other Atmos movies?  It would be really cool for people like me who can only get the DD 5.1 track right now.  TF4 comes to mind.  

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Hi Mike.  We really only do that if there's no alternative or our options are limited in terms of discs/tracks to measure.  Until we can measure Atmos, since we've been able to uncouple the 7.1 TrueHD stream from the Atmos stream, we'll probably only ever measure the TrueHD, unless there's a real and legitimate concern that the lossy tracks are significantly different.  

 

There's almost never any difference between the lossy and lossless tracks, aside from a little level from bass redirection and such. Most reports of differences between discs/regions/tracks are either exaggerated or simply not true - there are less than a handful of legit differences for bass movies, to date.

 

Rest assured that, if the mix is good in lossless formats, it's essentially guaranteed to be the same in lossy formats, and vice versa.

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That's cool.  I just feel better knowing that the numbers and ratings are pretty close when comparing a TRUHD track and DD track on an Atmos disk.  It sort of puts my mind at ease knowing that I am not really missing that much in my particular, 5.1 setup.  I can't do Atmos anyway because of that so I was worried that the DD track was crap compared to the TRUHD tracks that are on these newer Atmos titles.  I have to say that with the two Atmos movies that I do have, the DD tracks I got from them, sound as good as the "real" TRUHD tracks from other BR's.  

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So I ran Eot today wondering how hot I really play and watched the RTA. I have my sanway in a monster cable AVS 2000 and it lasted until the 10hz portion while reaching 129 dB! I think I blew a fuse in it or something but I plugged it into my DIY 20 amp triggered outlet and it played the scene with no problems hitting 132 dB at the 10hz portion. So does that mean I am 12 dB hot? The 30hz hit 125 dB, 25 hit 127 dB, 20hz hit 128 dB, 15hz hit 129 dB.

 

Yes.  You are around 10-12dB hot, if your rig is accurate to that level at that frequency.  If you are hitting 132dB with a C-weighted meter on that last tone, you are running even hotter.

 

JSS

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Do you use R128 analysis to normalize track-by-track with the classical stuff?  If so, I think something is off here.  In classical music, it's quite typical to have pieces that are almost entirely piano or pianissimo, which may have average level 20-30 dB below that of a typical theatrical track.  That doesn't mean it should be played back 20-30 dB higher, at least if you mean to follow the artists' intent.  This is what a so-called "normalize by album" approach does for you.  It analyzes the whole album using something like R128 and adjusts the playback level of each track uniformly so the piano tracks are distinct from the forte tracks.

 

Note that even high dynamic range digital music is frequently peak normalized, whether directly by analysis and subsequent amplification or indirectly via clipping or limiting.  For the better albums, one only hits full-scale maybe once or twice, but that means your system is still being asked to play peaks that it may not be capable of playing.

Yes, I use "normalize by album." Any album with its tracks played back sequentially only uses a single fixed amount for the entire album. This preserves track to track volume levels as intended by the artist.

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Yes.  You are around 10-12dB hot, if your rig is accurate to that level at that frequency.  If you are hitting 132dB with a C-weighted meter on that last tone, you are running even hotter.

 

JSS

It was REW RTA peak with my Umik. For some reason I can not get REW to run a measurement with the asio and my 975 anymore.  It is there and then when I hit measure the no sound from sound card comes up and then the volume icon on the computer turns from the 975 to speakers. 

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Had seen "The Haunting" mentioned over the years but just watched it for the first time today on DVD. Got to say it was very impressive and the movie wasn't too bad either. Reminded me a bit of the "Ragnarok" mix as far as bass is concerned. Very good.

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Had seen "The Haunting" mentioned over the years but just watched it for the first time today on DVD. Got to say it was very impressive and the movie wasn't too bad either. Reminded me a bit of the "Ragnarok" mix as far as bass is concerned. Very good.

I've had the DTS DVD of this for years and never watched it. I did rip a scene out of it to use for a demo disk (when she's lying in bed and hears the knocking) but never watched it in full. I believe this was one of many movies where the DTS track was mixed way hotter than the DD track.

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The Haunting is one of those fewer-than-a-handful of bass movies with verifiably different mixes across different tracks & formats.  Master & Commander is another.  I'm hard pressed to come up with others at the moment.

 

On another subject, I just saw Jurassic World (2d) at a Regal RPX theater.  The experience was great aside from one really big problem - their QSC SB-15121 subs had either a ground loop hum or an amp issue.  The entire time we were in the auditorium, from before the previews through the credits, there was a significantly audible 25Hz hum.  It never varied in frequency or SPL, but man was it distracting.

 

It wasn't just my girlfriend and I that could hear it - everyone around us could, and it even made the granny sitting next to me queasy.  Why the hell wouldn't Regal notice that and fix it in their premiere auditorium? Tickets were a ridiculous $16 apiece.  /boggle.  No wonder we never goto the movies.

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On another subject, I just saw Jurassic World (2d) at a Regal RPX theater.  The experience was great aside from one really big problem - their QSC SB-15121 subs had either a ground loop hum or an amp issue.  The entire time we were in the auditorium, from before the previews through the credits, there was a significantly audible 25Hz hum.  It never varied in frequency or SPL, but man was it distracting.

 

It wasn't just my girlfriend and I that could hear it - everyone around us could, and it even made the granny sitting next to me queasy.  Why the hell wouldn't Regal notice that and fix it in their premiere auditorium? Tickets were a ridiculous $16 apiece.  /boggle.  No wonder we never goto the movies.

Wow, that's bad!  I wonder why 25 Hz?

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The amp was probably out to lunch and oscillating.  That sub's port tune is 25Hz so it was just howling at you guys.  Absolutely annoying I bet.  You'd have to be a real chode to run that place and not notice something like that. 

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Thanks for reminding me why I don't go. Last movie was Skyfall. Was a clipping distorted mess. Hated the movie cause of it. Convinced myself to try it again at home and what do us know, great movie. The studios need to smack the theaters into shape. They almost lost a Bly ray sale based purely on the shit performance of my local theatre.

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Has anyone ever measured The Professional?  

If not, is there any chance of doing this version?

http://www.amazon.com/L%C3%A9on-Professional-Theatrical-Extended-Blu-ray/dp/B002O5M4SA/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1435146129&sr=1-1&keywords=the+professional+blu+ray

 

I have a feeling that it will go really low, but the level and dynamics may not be insane.  My guess would be between a 3-4 stars on this one.  But it would be cool if that one cold be done.  Just a suggestion  :) .

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Has anyone ever measured The Professional?  

If not, is there any chance of doing this version?

http://www.amazon.com/L%C3%A9on-Professional-Theatrical-Extended-Blu-ray/dp/B002O5M4SA/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1435146129&sr=1-1&keywords=the+professional+blu+ray

 

I have a feeling that it will go really low, but the level and dynamics may not be insane.  My guess would be between a 3-4 stars on this one.  But it would be cool if that one cold be done.  Just a suggestion  :) .

 

If you look at the Google docs spreadsheet linked from the top of the first page on this thread, there's a tab called "To Be Posted."  It's on there.  

 

Lots of movies, not a whole lot of time, and people have to vote on them or they languish without being resolved.  I can't post more if I can't get the existing ones off the board (looking at the MI polls).  :)

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Nube. Got Jupiter Ascending ready to go tomorrow. One vote closer to the end for that one. Wish I could watch the damn things earlier except for the bloody release to video here in Australia. Movies released in the cinema at the same time as U.S but video releases are two months behind. WTF?

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Anybody see "A Most Violent Year"?  This movie had some really unexpected ULF!  I was shocked and not expecting it at all.  I felt my floor shacking like crazy and put my hands on my drivers behind me, and sure enough, they were moving really slow like they do when there is sub10hz content.  It lasted a long time in a part of a movie that you wouldn't think there would be bass.  Part of the reason why I was surprised and had to touch my drivers to make sure it was them shacking my house.

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When movies are mixed with a low level bass track bumping the sub trim up to compensate is the correct way to get it back?

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If you look at the Google docs spreadsheet linked from the top of the first page on this thread, there's a tab called "To Be Posted."  It's on there.  

 

Lots of movies, not a whole lot of time, and people have to vote on them or they languish without being resolved.  I can't post more if I can't get the existing ones off the board (looking at the MI polls).   :)

I got you.  I have another request  :unsure:.  What about The Equalizer with Denzel.  To me, that seemed like it had some good moments.  I will also try and vote on the ones I have watched.  But some on that list are ones I am interested in.  

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Some good scenecaps from Bosso in "The Equalizer" thread already voted on a little while back. Covers some of the big hits.

 

Also some caps (Bosso again) back in the "LF films 2014" thread and "Low frequency content" thread as well as some robust discussion about this film.

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When movies are mixed with a low level bass track bumping the sub trim up to compensate is the correct way to get it back?

 

 

Yessir.  That's one approach.  Purists might not like it if they want to reproduce the mix exactly as the mixers intended, but it's all about finding what works for you.

 

I've been slacking a little on the polls because 1) not enough votes to kill the ties on some (VOTE, PLEASE!); 2) lots of family was in town recently so I haven't had much time; and 3) I've been working overtime to be able to go away to Telluride this weekend.

 

Long story short, things will be back to situation:normal next week, and I'll start retiring old polls and putting up some new ones.  I'll also take some time to analyze the waveforms on a couple of movies in question.  I might even watch them as well, if given enough time!

 

Happy Independence Day!

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