klipsch

Have moved things a bit since then, but basic idea... http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/topic/742-riccis-skram-subwoofer-files/?do=findComment&comment=20883 Edit: Also running the SKRAMs wide open - no ports blocked

I started off with an independent coverage implementation idea (avoiding mixing) with a blending / crossover around 32hz. 18s would cover 0 to ~30 and skrams for ~30 upwards. Ended up with mixing as that enhanced the "chest thumping" and gave a flatter response at multiple listening positions. IIRC (have been enjoying the configuration for a while not and haven't messed with settings), the sealed 18s cover 0 to 60hz and skrams cover 25 to 110 with my mains covering 80 and up. Took the expected measurement path of adding one speaker of each type at a time and taking 3 measurements in different listening positions each to ensure no nulls and instead got the expected dB gain based on the watts/speaker added. I would measure 1 18. Measure 2nd 18 independently. Add 1st 18 and 2nd 18 together - measure. Ensure ~6db gain across three listening positions by adjusting delay, etc. Measure 3rd 18 independently. Add 3rd 18 with 1st and 2nd 18. Ensure ~3db gain. Repeat until all 8 18s are blended achieving proper gain. Measure Left speaker independently. Measure right independently. Blend L & R together properly. Blend L with all blended 18s properly. Add R and ensure results are proper compared to when R and L were together only. Measure SKRAM 1. Then SKRAM 2. Blend SKRAMS. Now add SKRAMs to all. Ensure dB gains via measurements. I believe I got best results doing EQ for each group independently except for L & R. So EQ is global across the 18s group. Also global across the skram group. Independent for L and R. Then blend all together EQ wise. Enjoy the awesomeness. Edit: I should add that if I built 2 more skrams, I may do things differently. However, as they say, there is no replacement for displacement - having more displacement in different locations for the same frequencies really helps me to dramatically smooth the response across multiple listening positions in the theater. I could selfishly make the MLP for me be perfect (+-0.5dB) with the non-overlapping approach. However, with the overlapping approach, the front 3 seats achieve a very similar response and the back 4 seats aren't too bad, but with a +-5db range in the back VS +-2db range in the front.

My 2 skrams are mixed with 8 sealed ht18s. Sounds great to me

There's the even cheaper route as well https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-pss555-8-21-pro-subwoofer-with-45”-voice-coil-8-ohm--295-050

Guess I should have linked the Kraken as well https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-hts545he-4-kraken-21-high-excursion-subwoofer-with-5-voice-coil-4-ohm--295-054 Thiele-Small Parameters Resonant Frequency (Fs)26.3 Hz DC Resistance (Re)3.8 ohms Voice Coil Inductance (Le)8.5 mH Mechanical Q (Qms)7.9 Electromagnetic Q (Qes)0.29 Total Q (Qts)0.28 Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas)6.32 ft.³ Mechanical Compliance of Suspension (Cms)0.054 mm/N BL Product (BL)38.3 Tm Diaphragm Mass Inc. Airload (Mms)676g Maximum Linear Excursion (Xmax)21 mm Surface Area of Cone (Sd)1525 cm² Materials of Construction Cone MaterialTreated Paper Surround MaterialFoam Voice Coil Wire MaterialCopper Voice Coil FormerFiberglass Basket / Frame MaterialCast Aluminum Magnet MaterialFerrite

Quickly searched for "Vortex" and only found two hits here that were not related: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-pss545he-4--vortex-21-pro-subwoofer-with-5-voice-coil-4-ohm--295-052 Looking forward to some hands-on impressions and measurements - seems like a decent price and spec Thiele-Small Parameters Resonant Frequency (Fs)28.8 Hz DC Resistance (Re)3.8 ohms Voice Coil Inductance (Le)8.2 mH Mechanical Q (Qms)7.28 Electromagnetic Q (Qes)0.28 Total Q (Qts)0.27 Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas)7.49 ft.³ Mechanical Compliance of Suspension (Cms)0.06 mm/N BL Product (BL)35.5 Tm Diaphragm Mass Inc. Airload (Mms)511.2g Maximum Linear Excursion (Xmax)21 mm Surface Area of Cone (Sd)1590 cm² Materials of Construction Cone MaterialTreated Paper Surround MaterialCloth Voice Coil FormerFiberglass Basket / Frame MaterialCast Aluminum Magnet MaterialFerrite

IIRC a loopback (e.g. Soundcard) is not needed for measuring latency between one speaker and another. If wishing to determine latency of specific components with only one speaker then a loopback is needed to determine the time from the sound source to the recorded sound of the microphone from the speaker. TLDR - there should be one known source to compare latency to for another source. Between speakers, one speaker becomes the source. Between components, need some way to measure one component as the source to compare against the other measured. (assumes measurement latency will be offset / equal between measurements)

I've been running an xbs / sinbosen 240v FP20000Q ($818 USD shipped to door) for only 7 months, but in a home theater seating driving 2 skrams and several sealed stereo integrity HT18s across the 4 channels. Bassthathz in AVS has over a dozen xbs/sinbosen of different models to drive his gear. He seems to be happy with them as well. They are abused for enjoyment to an extent, but not physically with being on tour.

Guessing the Chinese clone option is not one you want to take?

Looking good. Is that the 15hz slot design?

Minidsp are a good way to go. It may already be known, but a software license is needed with the minidsp hardware. If buying used or new, it can sometimes not be included. I've been running a 2x4 for 10+ years and a 10x10 for over 7.

Yes, the 6mm is supposed rated super conservatively. I've read so much conflicting information from ported to sealed, etc. It seemed that sealed is the no-brainer decision via bassthathz if you are going to buy more than 2 pa460s... Trying to find alternatives to that evidence...

Sorry for any confusion. The examples above were for 8 and 4 drivers respectively. I just dumped them all in one big box each for simplicity. Making 2 boxes with 2 drivers each (4 total drivers) should be the same / similar enough as the 4 drivers in one bigger box (assuming phase and such are all aligned). 300 watts x 8 drivers = about the 2400 watts 300 watts x 4 drivers = about the 1200 watts Each PA460 supposedly does best in about 2.1ish cubic feet sealed. These drivers are really shallow so putting 2 dual opposed or wedged as suggested should open up multiple different box sizing opportunities. I've experienced many of the MBM equivalents. It has been my experience that, generally speaking, those that love them have bad room nulls or nodes. They set the modules up closer to the seats (or behind the seats) to attempt at overcoming the room issues. Setting up their room in the room simulator of REW and spending 5 minutes demonstrating the basics in the software usually shows them the issue(s) in their rooms quickly. Some have moved their couch 10 inches forward and problem solved without needing the MBM. Those that like them usually are starting out earlier in the hobby / early DIYers / are used to commercial subs / etc.. That all sounds negative after I just re-read it, and that was not my intention. The MBMs work as designed. Coming from skrams, I'll be curious to see what you think and how things work out in your room.

21 inch VS 18 inch too. No replacement for displacement But you can buy about 4.5 pa460s for 1 lavoce...

Don't think I am breaking any rules here, but if I am, please delete this post and I apologize ... "parts" that can be gotten "express"ly here in the States for the PA460s has two 10% coupon codes that are working right now: PECART1 PECART2

Many in here are leaps and bounds better than I for modeling. However, I think sealed is something I can share with some sort of accuracy. Using Winisd makes it simple for a quick ballpark. The below are the driver parameters used. Hopefully they are right and real. Winisd seems to have the Ql and Qa off for sealed cabinets. Assuming the cabinets are well sealed, I adjusted the Ql to 15 and the Qa to 15 (under "Advanced->") in the Box tab. 8 PA460s in 17 cubic feet sealed with around 2000 watts shows the below. It seems like the PA460s can handle about 300 watts each. Or 4 sealed in 8.5 cubit feet (not ft^3 like winisd shows - metric vs SI translation did not work out so well there) with 1200 watts =

Found at least a half dozen threads of dispersed info from his pa460 builds. I think these 2 threads are the best representation without needing to weed through lots of noise: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/3018180-how-good-could-we-have-inquiry.html - posts 13 through 25 https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/3022174-4-dayton-pa-460-sealed.html - posts 8 through 11 It looks rather tempting! He models how sealed are better than ported ... looks like the current 7% or 10% coupons off at partsexpress plus the pa460 4+ volume discount does make these things in the low $80s each...

Buy 8 pa460s for a sealed DO design? Would be under your 1k by far and can fit in a small space. 4 DO per enclosure? Can run them with the danley as a 3way and in stereo or just cross them over. Bassthathz over on AVS runs 16 of them IIRC. He showed how sealed was better than ported.

Many use the 18" Dayton driver which can be had for 82 USD each with coupon. Driver is a PA460. Sealed in 2.2 cubic feet. There are Eminence buyout and Celeston buyout drivers as well, but the PA 460 has been around for 10+ years so you can buy in future if you need a replacement. I have seen 16 of the PA460 in a 8 DO sealed configuration x 2. Sealed easily models better than ported regardless of enclosure size when doing multiple drivers.

Nice! I am using an FP20000Q. 2 of the 4 channels are used independently on 2 skrams with Nsw6021s.

Fp22000q Another's test of the largest/most powerful clone.

I have an unused 21SW152 8 ohm that is lonely and I haven't been able to sell it. Thinking of maybe building 2 of these ckrams to be used as Left & Right speaker stands. The current speaker stands are some "wasted space" of nicely painted 2x4s and plywood. I'd need to buy another 8ohm 21sw152, but then the ckrams could be wired together for a 4 ohm load - running both off a single channel of a 20000q clone amp. Turning these ckrams on their sides would maintain the proper height for the speakers. Assuming this plan would work out ok - the the drivers/ckrams being about 15' apart from each other (on center) driven by 1 channel/signal. As shown below, there isn't any internal bracing at this point. I am wondering if the bracing may not be needed since the driver baffle, midbrace, vent-turn, etc. are all in notched .25" slots of the surrounding pieces. Not sure if the small brace pieces would actually do anything more than the slots are already doing. Any thoughts on that logic? I apologize for destroying the star pattern and replacing it with the tic tac toe version. I thought this way may lend itself better for what I was thinking with respects to different options of bolting the front panel.

Fun. Seen quite a few of these builds in the wild now. Looking forward to seeing you test.

Looks good and sounds good... Can't ask for much more than that!

Nice work!