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m_ms

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m_ms last won the day on January 15

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  1. m_ms

    MicroWrecker build thread

    Interesting. From my understanding on the subject of high-passing subs a certain degree of slope steepness is needed for it to have an effect (i.e.: to actually be a protective measure to the driver), and going by lilmike's recommendation of a 4th order minimum it would follow that an even steeper slope is advisable. This advice may come in the wake of the relative nature of what exactly needs to be high-passed: horns generally gain from being used within a rather narrow bandwidth, and with a tapped horn both the low- and high-pass section would seem critical; the HPF for protection of a driver unloaded (in free air) below its tuning frequency, and the LPF to quench any looming peaks in the upper band. As is I'm using a 48dB/octave Linkwitz-Riley LPF at 90-100Hz (presently at 100Hz) on the MW's, and a corresponding 48dB/octave Linkwitz-Riley HPF on my main speakers (all-horns). Later I'll try out a 24 or 36dB/octave L-R crossover at 80Hz and see how that fares. The HPF on the MW's is 48dB/octave Butterworth at 20Hz, but I'll try a HPF down to 24dB/octave - slope type unchanged.
  2. m_ms

    MicroWrecker build thread

    And this has to be said clearly: thank you, @lilmike, for taking the time answering my endless questions and supplying free plans to a TH that by all accounts appears to be an excellent design
  3. m_ms

    MicroWrecker build thread

    Can you elaborate a bit on the "ringing" - how is this noticeable? Btw, @lilmike at an earlier juncture advised me to use a HPF at 20Hz for the MW's, "minimum 4th order," so 24dB/Octave at least. Question is whether his recommendation entailes an implicit upper limit for the slope used..
  4. m_ms

    MicroWrecker build thread

    How can the HPF slope here be (too) "extreme"? Is it potentially detrimental? Certainly my assessment as well. My line of thought is why you'd bother sending info to the MW's they can't reproduce anyway, so might as well keep the HPF for music as well as for watching films.
  5. m_ms

    MicroWrecker build thread

    Would like some views from you guys on the matter of a high-pass filter, and whether it's really necessary in my case with the MW's? Well, I've just applied a 20Hz 48dB/Oct HPF just to be sure. I take it this is more a measure relating to distortion than protection of the drivers per se, being that I can't see myself going beyond SPL's of 110-115dB's (short bursts, like from watching Blu-rays). Playing a scene from "Ready Player One" towards the end (of the game) is some "doomsday device" being set off, resulting in some very low-frequency rumbling as the destruction unfolds. In this scene, at my usual playback level, the excursion of the SVS driver was clearly visible, but playing the same scene with the MW's at the same SPL I can't see the driver move at all, apart from very small cone vibrations - quite impressive. Perhaps the frequencies here are sitting in the vicinity of the tuning fs of the TH.. OTOH, many Blu-rays contain frequencies indeed much below 20Hz - at full level - so if the MW's don't produce much worthwhile information below 20Hz anyway I don't see any reason for them to work, unloaded, with infrasonic information. That's certainly the argument in favor of using a HPF here.
  6. m_ms

    MicroWrecker build thread

    They're alive! That is - it's still a very early sound-draft, so to speak. There's a lot of optimization in the wait, and so any impressions may only tell you so much. I won't be able to supply measurements anytime soon (I know you guys crave seeing them data), but I hope they'll land eventually. I had no success with the removal of the fan of my Crown Macro-Tech 1200; from the bottom of the amp we were able to safely pull off the fan from its spindle/axle, but when I fired up the Crown this way, with speaker load, it turned very hot quickly, and not soon after shot down one of the channels. So, the fan went back in, and properly fan-cooled one barely registers any heat on its chassis, if at all - even when cranking the MW's a bit. So, with the proviso of a noisy background level from the Crown fan, B&C drivers that aren't yet run-in, and no elaborate optimization other than crude level-matching with the mains and a preliminary HPF/LPF at 90Hz, here're some early impressions: The MW's in my particular setup are a different animal compared to the SVS SB16-Ultra, that's for sure. At first I found them surprisingly "civilized" or delicate even, and after switching polarity in one channel found a more satisfying (but not altogether) level to match the mains. They still sounded a bit recessed, in a way, as if not really kicking into gear. I've since had them playing a good many hours for the last two days, and yesterday while seeing "Mission: Impossible - Fallout" on Blu-ray I noticed how they suddenly started loosening up and subjectively gaining in volume level. This tendency has continued throughout today with a fuller, more tactile sound, so much indeed that I needed to re-calibrate their volume. Compared to the SB16 the MW's provide a noticeably smoother and more "liquid" presentation of the lower band, and a livelier mid-bass. Moreover the bass from the MW's is much more wholly immersive, like an omni-presence. What's interesting is hearing how the bass of the MW's can truly sound like the lower registers of an instrument (like strings), where the SB16 sounded congested by comparison and more obscured "bassy." There's indeed an obvious thickening of the bass from the SB16, from my recollection. The MW's have more roar and texture in the mid-bass to mate more seamless with my mains, while subjectively rolling off earlier in the lower bass compared to the SVS, but this is a bit tricky to assess. With up-beat techno material the SVS had more emphasis on the lower bass to the point where you felt it to stumble a bit, whereas the MW's are more agile with no drag, more impactful and yet fuller sounding, but with more emphasis on the mid-bass. There's no sense of the MW's lacking in the lower bass as such, where there's the sensation of them shaking the air very effectively, but I suspect the SVS to dig a little deeper. Pics later, and more impressions to come as the optimization process kicks into gear..
  7. m_ms

    MicroWrecker build thread

    To think that I once considered the Gjallarhorn, though only briefly because of its monstrous size (this thing would have never gotten up the stairs to our 2nd floor apartment, both due to its shape and weight), fairly limited upper band and out-of-production driver. Speaking of which (i.e.: the driver) I'm hoping the B&C unit will do well in the MW's. It's never been tested in this tapped horn before, though it models very well. Hoping to get the MW's up and running Sunday or sometime next week.
  8. m_ms

    MicroWrecker build thread

    Sound like beasts. What's the in-room low corner from a pair of those, and how big is your listening room (in square meters)? Not that I believe it's really necessary, but I plan on applying a HP-filter at about 18Hz for the MW's. What's the opinion on this from you guys - do I need to bother with a HP-filter if I don't go past 110-115dB max. in my listening room? My reason to go with a HP would be to keep distortion at bay, rather than protection of the driver per se in my particular setup. The B&C driver does have limited Xmax, so it might be a good idea..
  9. m_ms

    MicroWrecker build thread

    But you got 4 of those 21" subs, right? Are they sealed? Don't know why I never realized how big the MW's really are when crawling through my listening room measuring them out for placement options. There's something about seeing those solid surfaces for real that blows away one's idea of size formed from a measuring tape. I've thought about that myself: what does @lilmike have in store for us to come when the biggest, current creation of his is a "LilWrecker"? 😲 A Mega-iteration would have to be an extension of the house..
  10. m_ms

    MicroWrecker build thread

    That was certainly "Plan B" hoping that the errors wouldn't affect performance severely, but that's not a desirable option when the outset is going "all in" and fuzzing over single millimeters. Fortunately it didn't get to that
  11. m_ms

    MicroWrecker build thread

    1206 x 608 x 768mm's (H/W/D).
  12. m_ms

    MicroWrecker build thread

    Construction quality of the building is likely the primary reason for the neighbors not being rattled out of their minds, indeed, added to (fortunate) inventory layout of my neighbors homes and how they relate to the placement of my listening room. In other words: luck is also a factor here, I guess. Had a near DEFCON 1 moment earlier this evening. Being that I need a rack build over the on-the-side-lying MW between the main speakers I thought I would just manually measure out the height of the MW, and somehow surprised by the number I saw was later horrified when my measurement didn't correspond to that of @lilmike's orig. Sketch-Up drawing. I was devastated, panicked, made more measurements, all of which were off - what the hell would all this effort be worth with a pair of huge, heavy bass horns with a likely misaligned horn expansion?! I was shut down for over an hour - close to weeping even. Desperate I contacted Simon Mears (who made the CAD-drawings from Mike's orig. plans, and is also the man behind my main speakers), and he gave me the height spec from his CAD drawing: some 1206mm's. Hey, this corresponded precisely with my own actual measurement, which veered off from what I thought should be about 1170mm's. Another measurement from Simon as requested from me of the horn mouth, and that fit my measurement to the mm as well. I then divided Simon's measurements in mm's with those from Mike in inches, and got 2,54. Blood went to my head again - I had used the crude 2,50 as a conversion value from US inches to mm, and with the correct 2,54 value all actual measurements were spot on down to the damn millimeter. Now I was even closer to weeping - the day's small miracle!
  13. m_ms

    MicroWrecker build thread

    Two pics of the MW's in my listening room, only partly unwrapped (and not oil-finished). I also placed the B&C driver in one of them just for fun. The Uccello main speakers aren't small by any measure, or so I thought.. The plan is for one of the MW's to be placed on its side between the Uccello's, and the second MW against the rear wall behind the listening sofa. We'll see how that fares. After the clear oil finish the MW's should attain a light-golden appearance not too far from the mains. I like the look of good, "naked" quality ply.
  14. m_ms

    MicroWrecker build thread

    Haha, what a great reply from your wife As I just replied to Ricci, the MW's may prove a challenge re: neighbors. But so far they've been very tolerant. Good answer. Indeed Denmark is a small country. I know of one in the whole of this country (Norway, different matter) - yes, only one who's using horn subs in his home setup. I'm sure there're more of them out there, but I bet they're far between. The one I do know has an awesome all-horn setup (all-horn from top to bottom is even more rare): 4-6 FLH's (can't remember how many exactly) with a 15" Fane Colossus driver in each that extends to 25Hz, and paper horns from Inlow. All active. Subs take up some 4 square meters total volume. Impressive..
  15. m_ms

    MicroWrecker build thread

    When I used the SVS SB16-Ultra over the entirety of my ownership of it (i.e.: about a year and a half), I had not once received a complaint from the neighbor above or below. And believe me, I've watched countless Blu-ray films and given them a good run, music as well. I know, compared to you guys and the subs you're used to this may equate to iPhone-levels, but still. It even got so far that I wondered why my neighbors didn't complain, so I asked them to their faces, several times: "Have my watching films and listening to music ever bothered you?" Their answer, repeatedly: No, no and no. Color me surprised. I see you're already on your way to the keyboard wanting to let me know 2 MicroWreckers vs. a single SB16 is like comparing a ship cannon to a bebe gun. Granted, I may invite hell and flynders here with the MW's - I hope not. Oh, btw. - the MW's were safely transported to our 2nd floor apartment. The cabinet maker and I fought for it, but we succeeded. Now I only need to sand the edges a bit, and apply a clear oil. Then comes the mounting of the drivers. And did I say the MW's are huge? Heavens..
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