Alexlel

4 hours ago, klipsch said:

Awesome! Now send one to Ricci! 

Would have been great but a bit too far ahah. Hope that in depth Skram review will come out one day 😁

These are sold !

4 hours ago, romain230584 said:

Bonjour, quel est la raison de la vente de ces monstres ?

Bonjour,

Je suis passé sur des caissons doubles qui sont finalement très similaires à ceux-ci mais que j'ai adaptés à mes contraintes logistiques.
C'est le même type de charge, je suis plutôt convaincu par mes Skrams mais ils prennent désormais de la place pour rien.

Bonne journée !

Hi !

I'm gonna write this post in french considering I'm not shipping those. They are located close to Nantes, in Brittany.

If you aren't french but still want more information, you can come in private, I'll happily answer back.

-------------------

Salut ! Je vends 2 Skrams équipés en B&C 21DS115-4.

Ils sont visibles près de Nantes.

Toutes les infos sont dispos ici : https://www.leboncoin.fr/image_son/2304610123.htm

Pour quelqu'un qui viendrait de ce forum, je laisse les deux partir pour 1200€.

Non négociable pour le coup, ce n'est même pas le prix du HP neuf
Merci !
Bonne journée.

On 9/6/2022 at 12:07 AM, ChikoRomantiko said:

Funktion One Dance Stack

Only in the DS3 configuration but they do it for a reason

Announced frequency response -3db (we can suppose these are once EQed) :

- InfraBass 218 : 25Hz - 80Hz
- DS15 : 90Hz - 270Hz
- F215 : 50Hz - 280Hz

They couldn't cross the InfraBass218 directly with the DS15 so they added some F215 in between.
But that doesn't mean it was the best solution, they are just offering what they can with their range of products.
 

In your case (and without any marketing EQ) :

- Skram : 26hz - 150hz
- 18" BPH (estimation) : 55hz - 220hz 

You don't need the mini scoops as you can cross the 18 BPH directly with the Skram.

You can add them if you want for sure, it's your system, if you want to take more bins, more amps and have a harder time to put everything in phase, you can, it's part of the fun 😁
I'm just unsure about the "real" gain you'll acquire from this.

On 8/31/2022 at 2:39 AM, ChikoRomantiko said:

SKRAM 21' RCF N551 (25-55) "MC2 E45 Bridged"

MINI SCOOPS 18' 18SOUND LW2400 (55-105) MC2 E45 Bridged

BPH 18' 18SOUND LW1200 (105-220) "MC2 E25 Bridged"

F1-DS210 (220-18K) "MC2 E15"

Hello,

If you ever use this setup again, you shouldn't use the mini scoops and just cross your Skrams way higher.
If those BPHs are ES18, you can (and should) probably cross them at 80hz directly with the Skrams.
Using 3 boxes for the 25hz-220hz seems counterproductive to me, especially if you didn't put them properly in phase.

If you build 2 more Skrams, even if the boxes don't have the same drivers inside, let them play together, the phase should be pretty similar, you will win more than using them crossed separately

On 7/13/2022 at 8:27 PM, Ricci said:

Is this an outdoor measurement? How far away is the nearest large object? Building, truck, etc?

Yes, this is outdoor ! There was a wall 10 meters on the left and a house 20 meters behind.

On 7/13/2022 at 8:27 PM, Ricci said:

Is the mic equidistant between the vents and the upper section or closer to one vs the other? That could account for another 1dB.

The mic was at 3 or 4 meters, on the ground, centered on the subs so probably closer to the upper section than the vents. 

On 7/8/2022 at 8:35 PM, Ricci said:

Hello Alexlel. Thanks for the info. Interesting. A 4th order LR would be 6db down at the Xo frequency. 109Hz. The response should be slightly rising towards 120Hz with that driver without any processing at all. That's including increasing directivity/baffle step as the frequency rises. You also have a pair of cabs. I wouldn't be surprised to see the response up 4dB or so at 100Hz under these conditions. 

Either way that's a useful starting point with just a LPF and HPF. Lowering the LPF frequency and/or changing the slope or filter type should be able to get your XO to the mains where you want it without much extra EQ needed. 

Hello Ricci,

I had the opportunity to get some fresh measurements this week-end.

The 2 skrams, 21DS115-4 loaded, were superposed horizontally, mic on the ground at ~3 meters.

I did measure one cab (the one sitting on the floor) and two cabs.
No LPF, my HPF was set at 19.7hz (as low as my processor was able to go, I think it was a -24dB BW but looking at my precedent curve I may have put a -24dB LR by inattention which would explain the slighty higher -3dB point on those)

These are still uncalibrated btw !

Green : 1 cab | Red : 2 cabs

Hello !

Took me a while but I finally remembered to save my measurements to share those with you.
They are worth what they are, I'll try to get unfiltered ones the next time.

So here is an uncalibrated measurement of 2 Skram units, 21DS115-4 loaded with a 2nd order BW filter at 24hz and a 4th order LR filter at 108.8hz. (No correction EQ). The subs were 8 meters away.

Considering how flat it is with the LR filter, you can imagine how the curve is rising after 50hz.

18 hours ago, klipsch said:

Looks very nice! 

Thanks!

My first build (the big cuts were done by the carpentry, just had to do the speaker, middle brace and handles holes) and the first drivers I ever bought ahah. The DIY way makes me discover a lot of things!

I like the look they have, the varnish tinted them in yellow, that was a great surprise, it gives them a vintage touch!

My last coat was drying yesterday, hope the weather will be fine next week-end!

Mines are almost ready as well, just have to put one more varnish coat, put the driver (21DS115-4) in and measure them !

Will post everything there as soon as I'll have the time to setup everything and when the weather will get better here.

@Droogne

It would lower the rear chamber volume and then the bass reflex tuning would go up.

If others can confirm.

You'll not reach 30hz if you reduce the depth, maybe 35hz with 70cm but with 60cm, you're losing a lot.

You can edit the hornresp sim to see what you're gonna lose exactly.

@Ricci Alright, I was drawing the slots and thought "That doesn't sound good".

Gonna put them on the sides.

Thanks!

Hi ! I'm building my Skrams and just wondered, is there any issue to put handles in vents ?

I want to put 2x Adam Hall 3402 to the bottom of my Skrams but they would be right in the vents, reducing quite a lot the area of it to a specific point (around the middle of the vents)

Wood and B&C 21DS115-4 on their way !

2 Skrams should be up in France before the end of the month

Hey @jay michael now that you built Skrams, would you say they are fast enough for psytrance ?  
Especially compared to your Othorn ?

I plan to play a lot of reggae and dub music but it will certainly have to play some psytrance during the night 

Thanks again !
Enjoy you news cabs

14 hours ago, jay michael said:

Sorry Alexlel, I'm hoping my posts will help and not make decisions harder

I've never heard the es18bph but I strongly considered building them.  I actually also own 6 martin audio b115 bins that I picked up in the spring, I'm almost done reconditioning them.  I will eventually experiment  using those in between the skrams and the danleys.

Of course those help !
It's just quite hard to believe that this cab can do the job of a sub and a kickbin ! And that it possibly do it even better.
I really want it to be real ahah, I'm in holidays in 2 weeks, so I have 2 weeks to make my decision between Othorn + ES18BPH or the Skram !

I like the ES18BPH sound, may not be everyone taste btw.

Can't make my mind between Othorn or Skram.
At first I was going for 2xOthorn + 2xES18BPH to cover 27.5hz - 110hz, so Othorn playing on one octave (27.5hz - 55hz) and the ES18 on another one (55hz - 110hz).

But then the Skram comes out and offer me the possibility to cover those 2 octaves with only one bin + the possibility to tune it lower for movies.
That means :

- Less amplifiers
- Less cabs so less speakers, cables, storage difficulty etc
- Less phase problems 
- Easier building and less wood required

I would save a lot of money, almost enough to build two others Skrams quickly.

The only thing I'm afraid of is the Skram "kick" power, is it something I should care about ?
I like the ES18 kick but it does it with light Mms drivers, the skram would kick with a 412gr Mms (B&C 21DS115-4).

@jay michael review makes me hesitate even more ahah.

Is the Skram far away of an Othorn + ES18BPH combo ? 

Here is a 3D Sketchup file for the Skram if someone is interested.
Bracing is missing.

It's rounded for metric units but it should not change that much compared to the original one :

Quote

Skram Dimensions: 24"x32"x36" (609.6mm x 812.8mm x 914.4mm)

Became : 610mm x 813mm x 915mm

Skram.skp

Based on your fresh hornresp inputs and your measured B&C 21DS115-4 T&S, it looks different of your simulations in page 2, is it normal ?
Which one should we consider for now ?
It's the same for the LaVoce, higher sensitivity with those inputs.

Gonna wait for some more measurements but if this one is around 98dB/99dB for 1W/1m as shown in the new simulation, I'll go for it instead of Othorn !

Hello !

@jay michael Your last measurements has been done with 1 cab ?

@Ricci How close is it to the simulation (21SW152-4) ?

I expect to build 2 Othorns next month but the Skram looks like a real contender, what sensitivity should I expect for 1 Skram, 21DS115-4 loaded ?
My aim is to get the highest output between 25hz and 70hz , can't make up my mind between Othorn or Skram...

Hello !

Just wondering, is the Palehorn still a thing @Ricci ?

I'm planning to build 2 Othorns next month (21DS115-4 loaded) but maybe it would be worth it to wait a bit longer and build some Palehorn as an Othorn V3 if you plan to release it ?

Thanks  

Alright, thanks for the clarification @m_ms !

Actually, I like the Skram for its design, it's an original cab compared to the Othorn which looks more like a "classic" tapped horn.
Another good point for it, is the fact that the driver is hidden, I expect to use those cabs in a sound system, I wouldn't have to be afraid of beers or malicious people.

But the Othorn is quite perfect for 25hz-70hz + it has a higher sensitivity on that band.
I think I prefer +3 dBs than a fully protected driver, otherwise you need more cabs and the cost + the building time + the logistic, make it a clear choice to me.

But who knows, maybe with real life measurements, the Skram will change my mind and won't be so far away !

Hello !

Does someone expect to measure a Skram soon ?
I aim to build 2 Othorns in August but maybe a Skram could be an alternative.

I saw the Ricci's simulations but @m_ms talks about 100dB sensitivity where the sims shows 97dB.

I'm looking for the best output between 25hz and 70hz, should I go for two Othorns or two Skrams ?

If you get 2x 21DS115-4, the price per unit goes down to reach the same as the 21DS115-8, precisely 382.94€