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Droogne

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Droogne last won the day on April 1 2018

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  1. I've asked this before, but I'd like to know if the Beyma 21SW1600ND would be a close match to the cheaper drivers. I can get a pair for 450, and my initial modelling (based on the manufacturers disclosed specs) are great. Anyone who can chime in?
  2. Me being in the EU makes the Eminence harder to get than the IPAL, sadly I think I got the modelling right (checked vs the models listed above here), but still not sure to model with or without lossy Le. Thanks for running me through the process! At this moment I have a pair of Sundown Audio ZV4 18D2 drivers, so I modelled them for reference. Keeping aside pragmatic problems (it being an 18" driver with a huge rubber hangup) I quite like this. A 5-10dB gain to the sealed I have right now, and only 2dB loss vs the 'cheaper' 21"ers mentioned above. All ports open (for reference) Compared to the sealed config I have them in now: Sealed, 140L
  3. Thanks! Awesome tool! I cant pick 'Lossy Le' when doing this, might explain some different values between us. What would be the most accurate modelling, lossy Le ON or OFF? In any case, this is what I get with the 2-port configuration (the one I'm most interested in for modelling) using their respective max voltage inputs and Xmax: SW152 La Voce IPAL 21 Looks like 2-3dB might be closer. Considering the LaVoce is about half of the price of the IPAL, is readily available and is much more amplifier friendly I will probably go with that one. I was briefly considering using a 5000W 2 ohm car amplifier with an AC/DC transformator, but that seems somewhat complex to work out. PS: how do I put all these graphs over each other?
  4. How do you get these kind of graphs? I see youre graph shows a 3dB, not 6 tot 8dB difference. I havent figured out how to compare several graphs like you. I modelled it based on the displacement graph in the wiazrd function: This graph shows the displacement of the SW152 in the 2 port configuration at full 2000W 4ohm (89V, GRAY). Xmax is listed at 15mm, so you can see it maxes out at ~42Hz. When I reduce the volts to 62 you can see it stays below the 15mm Xmax. This results in the following output, which shows a 3-4dB loss due to reduced input. When I do this for the IPAL 21 I get the following graphs, showing an Xmax that alway stays below the listed 22mm. Comparing those: IPAL 21 SW152 => I dont know if I made a mistake earlier, as the difference isnt that big anymore, but still. At 20hz there is a major advantage for the IPAL (at least in a 2 port config). 20hz: 125dB vs 118db aka 7dB 30hz: 125dB vs 123dB aka 2dB 40hz: 128dB vs 124dB aka 4dB DISCLAIMER: i'm new to modelling, so dont take these results for what they are.
  5. +1. This is why I keep posting my models here. I'm bound to make mistakes. Here is the SW152 in a 2 port config, with 2000W 4ohm (instead of the 2000W 8 ohm I used earlier..). On the other hand, the model I care the most about is the Xmax limited, which stays the same (SW152 already hits it Xmax at 60 volts, which is still lower than the 89V at 2000W 4ohm). That said.. is 'Xmax limited' something that is a logical way to approach this? I made the same mistake on the ohm/voltage front, so for the IPAL you cannot input 53V (as 2500W 1ohm is 50V), but it doesnt make any real difference dB wise. This means the IPAL can be used to its full power in the Skram, while the SW152 and Lavoce clearly dont as they need to restrict their input by ~30-40V to stay below Xmax. This is clearly reflected in the output, which favors the IPAL even more. 6-8dB in favor of the IPAL (I see you modelling shows a slighter difference which is probably due to not being Xmax limited?) . Normally I'd say, 6-8dB makes an IPAL Skram x4-6 times more worth it, so the extra few euros (in my case the IPAL isnt even twice as expensive as the cheapest LaVoce I can find) would be saving me money by needing less subs (and space!), but sadly the 1 ohm load of the IPAL is the dealbraker. No way I can afford one of those ultra expensive amps that can take on a 1ohm/channel or 2om bridged load. Otherwise I would have placed my IPAL order this evening. So.. Xmax limited you mean? Or just full 1700, 2000 and 2500W without looking at Xmax? It's up on Bluearan in the UK. Always the best price as far as I can see. Next one where I normally look is TLHP in France (but IPAL over there is still at the regular 900 euro). I urgently need to use his parameters too, instead of manufacturer listed ones.. dont know why I didnt do that from the get go.
  6. Also, if I model the IPAL 21 I get similar results, though still massively favoring the IPAL (even when considering costs). First of all, consider the current marketprices over here (Belgium): Lavoce 21 SAN: 358 euro B&C SW152: 519 IPAL 21: 650 euro When modelled to never exceed Xmax we get these results (2pi, 2 port configuration): 20hz 30hz 40hz 50hz 60hz 70hz 80hz amount of volts needed to reach Xmax DB lost due to Xmax limiting Price Lavoce 21 SAN 117 123 125 125 125 127 128 80 3dB 358 B&C SW152 118 122 125 126 126 127 129 60 6dB 519 B&C IPAL 21 125 127 129 132 133 134 135 55 8dB 650 => it looks like the IPAL suffers the most from limiting its output to Xmax, but it still kicks ass (especially in the low end), AND it needs LESS power to get there. Should I jump on the IPALs and get a pair before prices go up again?
  7. Also sorry, to be someone else wondering about the CNC files, but I cant seem to figure out how to send this to my CNC operator in a way that he can effectively work with this. I downloaded the 3 files listed here above, but I cant seem to work out an 'easy' way to appoint the correct measurements, so my CNC guy can get to work. Greetings
  8. Lavoces here in Europe also go for a lot less. I was modelling them vs the SW152 drivers and I see around a 3-4dB difference (from 30hz and up) at full RMS input, so justifying the costs of the B&C. However, the Lavoce has an Xmax of 15,5mm (instead of 15mm) and a max power rating of 1700W (instead of 2000W), so I figured the SW152 might hit that 15mm Xmax sooner. When I model it to limit the output to their respective Xmax (at 40hz) it looks like the Lavoce can take more power (80V instead of 60V) which translated into only 3dB loss instead of 6dB, so a relative '3dB gain' for the Lavoce which effectively bridges the 3-4dB gap I modelled at their respective full power. So Xmax limited the Lavoce results in only slightly less output instead of a very relevant 3-4dB. Please correct me if I make wrong assumptions or modellings, I'm pretty new to this.
  9. @Ricci Does this look more like it?
  10. Also, what do you think of trying to make an 18" equivalent version? I very much like the performance of the Skram, but their size is scaring me a bit. Height and width aren't problematic, but the depth is. I would like to reduce it to 60-70cm, as it would make it more accessible for my living situation. If not possible to reduce the depth without changing the design completely, then I'll just leave the size as is.
  11. I did yes. Didnt use the "lossy Le" option. Here is the difference: 2 port configuration:
  12. Ok thanks. I modelled them all out for my own reference. Here the results for everyone interested. I Xmax limited the output (15mm for the 21Sw152) 1 port operation. Xmax at ~22hz, 60 volts 2 port operation. Xmax at 30hz, 70 volts 3 port operation. Xmax at ~22hz, 80 volts
  13. Great to know the hornresp parameters for the Skram with all vents, but how would I convert this to a configuration with only 1 vent open? Anyone who can help?
  14. Good point. An extra reason to consider the Othorn. Skram only wins in my eyes, if it could work as a bin for 150hz too. For now I didn't realy consider the build complexity, costs, Amp requirements and size. So this will be the next step. Skram does look smaller and less complex. Gonna hear how much my carpenter would charge for each, and look at driver costs.
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