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About Droogne

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  1. Sundown ZV4 18D2 - sealed enclosure

    PS, fun fact: apparently I bought 2 woofers which were signed by the founders of Sundown Audio (Jacob and Brian)
  2. Sundown ZV4 18D2 - sealed enclosure

    Hmm I'll look up some prices. Dont imagine using something a bit more expensive will be a big cost relatively. Ok, already thought that after your last comment about it, but wanted to be sure. I'll stuff, but I'll leave it out of winISD. Yeah, I just have a lot of wires laying around (bought like a 200m roll for my surround) so will just combine them. Will keep you posted about any developments. Till I build them and the LaScalas I'm gonna keep busy with my new Xilica (gonna actively amp my LCR) and designing and building a custom synergy horn to use as height channels.
  3. Sundown ZV4 18D2 - sealed enclosure

    First of all, sorry for the late answer! I was enjoying some quality (ski)vacation in Italy. Good times. Now I'm back and 2 months of almost 100% free time to throw at my sound system. The drivers just arrived! Those are some damn heavy monsters ö almost hurt my arm trying to lift them up my stairs! Amps are something I know I will have to do something about. It will work for now, and thats what Important. Upgrading the amp is the next step. in the "grand plan". Got it. Thanks. Not sure what material to use, but it seems people are using a lot of standard mattress filling etc, should something like that work? I mean vice versa, that stuffing actuallyl increases the internal volume. By 15-20% I heard. Yeah, I was thinking about using thicker wire. Wouldnt 2 smaller cables give the same result? It does. It actually does. Seems similar to what I have in my PA sub atm. About the build it self: as I'm coordinating this build with the LaScalas the project will have to wait for another week as the LaScala builders need extra time to start. I have also asked for a quote on the cutting for the pannels, so there is possibility I'll only need to assemble the bins. So I think I'm looking at 1 or 2 weeks till my front stage is done (Xilica actively crossed 2-way LaScalas with a K510 horn and Faital PRO HF200 drivers and the 2 Sundown subs)
  4. After a long time (and many many discussions about different drivers) I finally have chosen a driver and a design for my first build. The driver is the very powerfull Sundown Audio zv4 18D2. A lot of info by Ricci can be found in the driver section. I have ordered 2, so will be making 2 exact enclosures. Enclosure will be 62x62x50cm sealed. So around 158L before driver and bracing. Material will be carpent grade 18mm ply. Will be using a 22mm or double layer 18mm for the baffle. This because there wont be a lot of place between the driver cutout and the internal top and ground plate. Reason for this design is simple. To save room, and for many other reasons, I have chosen to have the sub as a platform for my LaScalas, and for "WAF" like reasons, it seemed best to let them have the exact footprint. This is also why I'll be using ply, to have it match the LaScala. Do I know it would probably perform better in a huge ported enclosure? Yes, and I'm also planning on doing this with these drivers. Plan is as followed: 1: build the 2x sealed enclosures 2: build the 2x ported (460L) enclosures 3: adjust the driver cutout to fit the Dayton Ultimax UM18-22 (or similar other 18" driver). The difference between them is very small. I can also make the enclosure tot fit the Ultimax from the start. The difference is .06", and I doubt it will matter for the Sundown driver that the cutout is this much bigger. Why stepwise, and not start with the ported subs? It comes down to my inexperience in subwoofer DIY and to keep my options open for the ported design. As this will be my first build, start with something small, cheap and simple seems the best way. That way I can see what tools I need to upgrade or buy for the more complex (slot)ported build. I will also have 2 subs that are moveable when needed, and less of a money loss when I make a big mistake. The ported would also be a speaker platform, but I don't have the mains that will be placed under them, so it might be better to wait till I know the exact dimensions of those mains. I would also like to keep the option open to use a 24" driver for the main subs. In that case the Sundown drivers would go in to 2x smaller (ca 300L) ported subs in the back. Build itself As I'm new to this, I don't know the hurdles I'll have to jump over, and what to look out for. Any pointers will be hugely appreciated. The cutting: I'm gonna have the same people who are building my LaScalas cut the ply. This to ensure the dimensions are correct. Baffle cutout: as said before I'll probably use a double baffle, with a 16,75" cutout to ensure the Ultimax will fit in nicely in the future. I'll be using a regular jigsaw for this. Putting it all together: this is where it gets tricky. I don't have big enough clamps.. When I build my flatpack horn loaded subwoofer I didnt require it, as it used screws instead. Except if someone can give me a way to still use glue without screws, or if I find somewhere where I can rent the clamps I'll be doing it like this: pre drill all the pannels, probably 2 or 3 on each side, then also predrill into the second pannels, this time with a smaller diameter. I would also mill the holes on the outside so the screws will sink in nicely. When putting it all together I would still use boatloads of glue, but the screws will keep the pannels thight to eachother when drying. Bracing I'm gonna copy the bracing from the Marty subs (see attachment). So simple rectangular pieces from one side to the other. Would be around 2 on each side, so around 6 in total. Around 15,6L. I could also go for 2 windowbraces if there is enough spare ply. Filling: Another subject where I'm wading in the unknown. What would you guys suggest? And how would this affect the volume I put in winISD? Wiring As the cables are a lot cheaper, and I'll probably will have to lay around 5-10meters of them, I'll be using regular speaker wire. Any reason not to do this? Not sure yet how I'm gonna wire it all. I have 2 subs, which both have 2 2ohm loads. Do I wire them together inside, and connect them both to the same terminal? And do I use 1 or 2 sets of terminals for each sub? The hornsub In already have, has 2 terminals connected together internaly. Or is this not necessary when using regular wire instead of SpeakON cables? Amp & EQ Amplifier Will be using a PSA2700 amp for now. See attachment for all the specs. It has a 2x 350W output at 8ohm, 530@ 4ohm, 750W @2ohm, is bridgeable, and can tolerate a 2ohm load. What would be the best way to wire the subs? I could bridge the amp and wire all the coils in series. That way I have over 700W (not sure exactly how much it was). If I wire them for 2 seperate 4ohm loads I have 530W each. The Amp is definetely temporary. Open to any suggestions for a new one. Will probably be looking for a good second hand Powersoft model. What output (or specific model) should I be looking for? Other option is an iNuke NU6000 as they go for absurdly low prices on the second hand market. EQ I'll be using a UMIK-1 setup mic and REW to determin the appropriate PEQs for my Behringer Ultradriver DCX2496. Thanks for reading through! Any thoughts, suggestions or questions are very welcome!
  5. B2 Audio XM18 vs Dayton Ultimax UM-1822

    Next up: building the enclosures for them. Also in the planning stages for my 11 surround. 5x MEH's (LCR + rears), 1x pair of DIY LaScalas (side surround) and 4x 15" custom heights. They will all be using the same compression drivers (Faital HF200, or maybe even the better 20ATs) in 2 ways. 2 of them are already on their way from Canada, and I already fixed a huge deal on the other 9 (yes I have a problem with paying regular prices ). Also got a deal on 8 of my 16 15" ers. Been busy (it's not like I have exams or something... OK I do and I really shouldn't be wasting all this time hehe). Now on to the search for decent crossovers for the project. Trying to find a decent deal on a Xilica 3060 (or OEM product, but it's hard to know which ones are equal in quality) for the LCR, and I'm trying to get a deal on 4 miniDSP HD's for the rest of the surround. At the same time I'm looking for a new couch, something like a real cinema relaxer. Preferably one with a lot of place below so I can also try to build the riser beneath it. Oh and did I forgot to mention I'm also looking at the possibility (more like viability) of a DIY 7 channel tube amp? Oh it's gonna be hectic few months! Love it!
  6. B2 Audio XM18 vs Dayton Ultimax UM-1822

    Yeah whoa haha! It's a good thing man. Damn I was going crazy trying to decide lol
  7. B2 Audio XM18 vs Dayton Ultimax UM-1822

    Both made in North Carolina Sadly no They are B-stock so only those 2 :/ but I have the time to send all European retailers to see if they dont have a pair laying around. Nice thing about the Sundowns is that, I can follow the natural evolution while still keeping all my options open with compromising. What I mean by that, is that I talked about a lot about the choice about: start with small sealed in the backs (which are a much simpler build to start with as someone new to DIY), or big ported in front. Well as it turns out can do both now. I can start with 2x small sealed for in the back (I would place them in the front for now, but that's what I'm calling the design), and I'm saving some money on the next pair of subs. Couple that with the fact that I'll have a perfect pair to keep me content till I'm sure what my budget will be (what could take a few months), means that I could: save some money and decide to put the Sundown under the mains in the front (in the 400L enclosures), ported or sealed (in this case, that choice could be made later), and buy 2x Ultimaxes to put in the small sealed boxes where I'm putting the Sundowns in for now (will have to figure the enclosure build that can accommodate this). OR I could decide to keep the sundowns small sealed in the back, be patient and save up... and buy me a pair of 2x 24" ers. Just because I can. Again, one of the main cost this year will be to buy and ship my MEHs. It's impossible to guess how much thats gonna be so I need to keep that budget open. But I could very well end up with a pair of 2x 24" in the front. Let's hope Who knows someone cant handle their power and is willing to sell them ha! Anything can happen. Another nice things about the versatility off the sundowns is that I can easily take them with me when I move, the B&C21DS115 would always need such a big enclosure that I'd probably end up having to sell them. The sundowns I could move from a large ported to small sealed (if I do decide to go to the ported mains that is). The sundowns can take some serious power though! Whoa! My amp can in no way handle that (2ohm capable and bridgeable, 2x 350W 8ohm), so that "suggest me an amp" thread might be closer than was planned.
  8. B2 Audio XM18 vs Dayton Ultimax UM-1822

    It seems like the universe decided for me, a car dealer who I had contacted before, sent me that he had the option to sell me 2x B-stock Sundown Audio zv4 18D2 subwoofers (http://data-bass.com/data?page=driver&id=57). I bargained down to a price where I just had to see if it was as good as my first instincts led me on to believe. I send Ricci asking what he thought about the driver, in comparison with the UM1822 and B&C 21DS115 (both ported and sealed) and he was told me the Sundown was definetely better than the Ultimax for a 15hz F3 design. Considering I'm paying less for the sundown (only 50% resail price), that seems like a good sign. See below the data-bass graph (in the same enclosure) Their response is almost equal when taking out the difference in RMS handling (2000 for the sundown), a 0,4db advantage for the Ultimax at 15hz in my "small" enclosure (160L). Big difference would be that, although they both have almost the exact excursion curve, the Sundown would have 13mm excursion advantage. When modeled the Sundown also shows a lot more potential. Quite complex to just draw up some graphs to compare them, but it performs better in every way in compared to the Ultimax and the DS115. The DS115 shows some more potential from 50-100hz, but only by 4db (and it's not really a range I want the sub to perform in). Logically the Sundown does outperform the Ultimax in the upper ranges. When taking a generous 24 m/s rear port velocity, I end up with a 3db and 13mm excursion advantage with the Sundown vs Ultimax (same power). The real competition is between the DS115 and the Sundown as those are the ones I can buy at the moment. Both perform very well down to 15hz in my cabinet, but the Sundown would be left with a whole lot more excursion (about 8mm) and potential to be driven up higher. Also the B&C is 1,5 times as expensive! Thoughts?
  9. B2 Audio XM18 vs Dayton Ultimax UM-1822

    @SME @Infrasonic (about the UM1822) "Hello The driver isn’t available at the moment with PE. Expected delivery date is 21.02.2018. I can import it for you along with our next shipment around May/June 2018. Price 530,00 EUR/pc gross + shipping cost." This was the last European deliverer of the Ultimax... Seems like this one is not an option anymore I'm already discussing with Eng-399 on the AVS forum (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/2777425-4-18-cubic-ft-flared-slot-ported-build-using-4-b-c-21ds115-4-drivers-10.html) about modelling his 21DS115 build to my size. I think I'm gonna make my box a little bit longer as to copy his exact volume, that way I'll be sure. Already looking into all the tools I'll need. Maybe I'll start a "build preparation thread" later this evening. Only reason why I wouldn't go through with it is if the shipping for 2x Obsidians get ridiculously cheap (which I doubt). Also got a new opportunity to earn 2k USD (I don't really have a job, so all my speaker budget comes from participating in medical studies for money.), and if that goes through I might hit you guys up for a good quality amp to drive a pair of the 21" B&Cs (the one I have now is 2x550 4ohm). Will probably also order a Crowson (single to start with) and maybe look into reviving the riser project (or build a second B&C). Lot's I'm able to do with an extra 2k lol.
  10. B2 Audio XM18 vs Dayton Ultimax UM-1822

    Yeah I kinda phrased that badly.. I meant it more like, would it be beneficial to have 2x lesser subs than 1 good one. Aside from the fact if they are in the recommended enclosure or not. As I understood, people are always recommending 2x 15"ers above 1x 18"er . I applied that logic to this case. 2x lessers 18"ers in a too small enclosure vs 1x superior in a better suited. To be clear, I'm not planning to stay with the 2 lesser subs, they would also be a stepping stone to a bigger and badder sub. I still don't have a clue on their shipping price though.. So anything is possible yet. Also problematic.. It seems like the Ultimax is out of order, so even I do order it, it could take a while before I would have it :/ I have noabout what I truely want to accomplish.. I doubt anything will dissapoint me.. I have a deep craving, but even when I crank the bass on my mains (only 40hz) I'm already suuuuper hyped. Doubt any sub I choose wil dissappoint me. So I think I better pick one, go for it and base my future opinions on that. Also I actually dont really have a budget. More like priorities in my upgrading plan. Looking into actually finding someone who can sell me the Ultimax in case the Obsidians turn out to be expensive to be worth it. Also looking into the B&C 21"ers. They are above budget though, like 30%more expensive than the Ultimax. Ultimax is 450, the B&C DS115 and SW115 both 600. Seeing a lot of people on AVS going mad because the prices of the Ultimax went up, but they are so darn more expensive over here (and still literally the cheapest option umf :/ ) Depressing to see the prices you are able to get all the good woofers Is there maybe a good second hand site in the US where they would sell good woofers like the Ultimax? Shipping them in might end up cheaper than buying new over here lol.
  11. B2 Audio XM18 vs Dayton Ultimax UM-1822

    The reviews one here, and the included graphs show it does perform OK (considering I would have 2 instead of 1). It compares similar to my modeling. A clear low in a few db in the lower end, which it can make up by being paired parallel and by being.. wel 2 woofers instead of 1 The difference is quote bigh though.. bigger than I modeled, so it does make me question it a bit more (especially as both of them wouldn't be exactly equally cheap to 1 UM1822, more like 13, times the cost of 1.. and for that money I could buy a B&C 21" driver)
  12. B2 Audio XM18 vs Dayton Ultimax UM-1822

    Would you recommend using them in "small" sealed too? Like 140-160L.
  13. B2 Audio XM18 vs Dayton Ultimax UM-1822

    I know Input straight from the source. Right out of the tap! I'm getting a shipping quote tomorrow normally, so if that stays reasonable I just need an opinion on the woofers before I make a decision. Going directly to 2 decent woofers seems like the right choice. Better spread into the room, and almost no loss in output/woofer, with a total improvement due to the 2x 18"s instead of 1. Then after that I have like 6 months to prepare and look into all the designs out there for my main 2 subs (which I'm hoping to be "permanent").
  14. B2 Audio XM18 vs Dayton Ultimax UM-1822

    IB? As in: good to be used in, or is this really an IB driver specifically? I'm looking at it for a small (140L) sealed in this case. Looks to fit really nicely. I have the opportunity to buy a pair of unused drivers via the AVS forum, so it's not a problem they have been discontinued.