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Ricci

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Posts posted by Ricci


  1. Do you hear any scratching or feel it rubbing if you gently push in on the cones? Is the sound more similar to a tapping sound or a ticking? Myself and some others did receive some 21Ipal's which were making a tick or tap type of sound. B&C replaced mine. I suspect that it comes from a loose shorting ring, but I'm not sure. It sounds like you may have the same issue. 


  2. 20 hours ago, Droogne said:

    OK, as in equalish to the Lavoce and other cheaper drivers?

    Based on the specs it should be. I've never seen any 3rd party data on it though which trumps MFG specs IMO.

    Unless it is significantly cheaper I'm not sure I'd choose it over one of the Lavoce, B&C or 18 Sound models. If you are getting a great deal by all means give it a shot. 


  3. On 10/3/2019 at 5:46 PM, Droogne said:

    I've asked this before, but I'd like to know if the Beyma 21SW1600ND would be a close match to the cheaper drivers. I can get a pair for 450, and my initial modelling (based on the manufacturers disclosed specs) are great. 

     

    Anyone who can chime in? 

    It looks ok based on Beyma's specs. A little light on motor force but should be fine. The unknown is what the complex inductance specs look like but based on the published impedance curve it shouldn't change things too much.


  4. Pretty much +1 on everything you said. LOL.

    I don't do any live mixing anymore. It's a tough job and the guys that are good at it with good equipment don't get enough credit or pay usually. 

    Here's one more from a current project. Instrumental ambient weird prog stuff. This show was opening for John 5 who is amazing and a really good guy. You may not have heard of him but he plays for Rob Zombie among many other things. 

     


  5. On 10/2/2019 at 5:07 PM, peniku8 said:

    I get what you're saying about feeling, but for me it's all about the overall sound, both when I'm behind the kit or in front of the stage.

    I don't play with triggers live, but thought about setting it up for our IEM system. And yes, the gigs are exhausing 😅

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-awEQjlSk0 [Live]

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA6-rMbrF1E [Recording]

    To get back on topic, for our shows the bass drops need to be as loud and go as low as the system can handle of course!

    Awesome man... A lot of guys I know use triggers for death/grind/black stuff and it's fine if you've got a good engineer and PA but when the PA is undersized or when they have technical problems it's bad. We toured with a couple of bands that actually brought their own PA for their vocals and drummer. 

    Here's some old videos from way back in my first band...1997-2004. The recordings are trash but the video is kinda required info.  Definitely not for everyone.

     

     


  6. Also...Consider that you will still need to be wary of very high duty cycle signals over the short term. Things like air and water cooling will help with long term heat buildup in the motor and coil, but not so much with rapid heating of the coil over a short time period. Coils can be burned VERY quickly in some cases with a bad scenario. With that said I wouldn't assume that you will be able to increase the short term peak signal handling of the system at all and this is what has the possibility of reaching driver Xmax for the most part. The longer term signals that make most of the heat buildup aren't normally going to be causing excursion issues. In fact greater excursion helps cool the voice coil and motor. With that said I definitely wouldn't go smaller with the cabinet. 

    Ipal module will fit on the hatch. The hatch is the same as on the Skhorn and I believe I posted the files for the hatch with a Speakerpower SP series and the Ipalmod cut out in the Skhorn thread. As mentioned you want the sensor close to the cone and apex of the horn. 

     


  7. 19 hours ago, peniku8 said:

    I've mixed shows where the PA with only vocals on it could hardly keep up with the dumkit in the room. I'm talking 120dbA here, room for 150 people. No acoustic treatment, often not even half full. Hardcore drummers with a Snare drum forged on Mt. Doom.

    I don't mind a little stage bleed in mid-sized venues, as it usually just results in a 1-4khz boost in the cymbal range. That's what we can bring cympads for if it gets out of hand, but at some point it's just too much. It's all about optimizing the sound at the FOH and you have to find the right balance.

    And if you have issues playing a little less loud (ofc I wouldn't expect anyone to reduce his Metal drumming to conversation volume) you just need to practice more. I've been playing the drums in an Orchestra for 15 years now, that's where you really learn to control your dynamics. On the other side I'm also playing live shows with my Deathcore band and mix engineers often wonder why I'm playing so quietly heh.

    I have been in that scenario plenty of times. The room is small and usually full of hard reflective surfaces and the drums are titanic loud, which of course causes the bass and guitars to compensate louder and you end up with a scenario where the pair of 15" 2 ways that are usually in such a place can't get the vocals up over top of it. I'm not saying this doesn't happen and that it's easy to attempt to work around...Hell sometimes the drummer has a very light touch and gets completely drowned out by the guitar player who has to have a full stack running at 10 even in a 50 person room. Seen that one way too many times.

    A lot of this depends on the music style too. If you are a Folk-rock group with quiet female main vocals and 3 part harmonies the drummer shouldn't be hitting through the heads the whole time. Play should be appropriate to the music clearly. That's the thing though if you are playing "heavy" aggressive music like east coast hardcore or something the drums are supposed to be hit aggressively. The double whammy with heavier bands is often the scream or growl type vocalists don't really have much projection or power. That's not always the case but it is a lot of the time. You end up with a very loud band and a vocal mic that needs a LOT of gain = feedback and tons of stage bleed. 

    Back to the too loud drummer issue...My point is not about being able to play with less force. You should be able to play the same phrases or beats at a variety of volume levels without issue. That's 101 level stuff. Being able to do that with a beat or drum phrase does not mean that they will all offer the same sound, feel, dynamics or emotion to the drummer, the band or the crowd. As an example. Imagine...You are drumming in that east coast hard-core band...the big break-down comes... The whole crowd knows it from your first album...The ninjas are about to kungfu up the dance floor and!...You kick in at about 50% volume of normal because your drums are going to be too loud. Try to act like you are going hard, but you know you're not it's just an act. That situation is one I've been in and it sucks. None of the other instruments have to deal with that type of thing. That's all I'm saying really. Stupid loud ass drums and cymbals!

    Deathcore band eh? Blasts and skank beats? Triggers? 

     


  8. 5 hours ago, peniku8 said:

    When mixing shows in smaller clubs you'll notice that the un-mic'd drumkit already exceeds 100dbA and you're left hoping for the drummer to accept your request for playing quieter or you can't really mix. Legally, you'd have to end the gig halfway through, because the band was 'using up' their loudness units too quickly.

    I often hear sound guys talk of too much stage volume from the band members especially drummers, but it's not as simple as just play quieter like it would seem to be. It can fundamentally affect the entire feel of the composition for the drummer, the entire band and even the audience since the group now has less energy, especially in the smaller intimate venues where this type of problem usually occurs. Basically you are asking the drummer to tone it down, and not put nearly as much energy and dynamics into the performance as usual. Usually there's a reason these drummers play like this. I'm one BTW...Usually drummers that are really loud are used to playing with little to no PA reinforcement (perhaps just kick if even that) and having to provide the beat with acoustic drums only while competing against amplified instruments. If you think about it there is probably no other instrument that you would literally ask the person to alter their usual playing style and performance in such a big way. I guess you could go to an all electric kit with triggers but that carries a host of other trade offs. 

    In the smaller clubs or bars with live musicians the "PA" often isn't really needed a whole lot for overall volume, but mostly for vocals, samples and other instruments which need a boost in volume. In large clubs and especially arenas there is often enough distance and dispersion to work around loud players and the PA does a whole lot more work in these situations.

    Anyway that's a subject I'm very familiar with. 

    • Like 1

  9. STILL for sale...I'm losing my ass on all of these at these prices. 

    Qty (2) 18 Sound 21NLW9601 8 ohm drivers. $800 takes both shipped and insured. $700 local pickup. Will separate...

    Qty (1) 18 Sound 21ID. $430 shipped and insured. $390 local.

    Qty (1) MTX 9515-44. $430 shipped and insured. $365 local.

     

     


  10. Just now, Ricci said:

    You can completely ignore the winisd recommendations. In fact you should also ignore qtc for the most part. IMHO. I never use it for design work anymore. Extremely efficient drivers result in impossibly small box sizes for nominal qtc values. 

    Start with a size that is practical to build such as a 17" or 18" cube and use that calculated volume for modeling. Use the model to determine an appropriate amount of power to use. Don't worry if the excursion below 20Hz seems to go beyond Xmax at low power. It will due to a very low qtc alignment. The DS series drivers are almost impossible to bottom out and it takes WAY more power than winisd will show to push the driver beyond 20mm excursion. The driver does not respond linearly to power increases beyond Xmax and a little past 20mm one way even huge increases in power will not push it further. It is effectively done at 25mm no matter how much power is dumped in. 

     


  11. You can completely ignore the winisd recommendations. In fact you should also ignore qtc for the most part. IMHO. I never use it for design work anymore. 

    Start with a size that is practical to build such as a 17" or 18" cube and use that calculated volume for modeling. Use the model to determine an appropriate amount of power to use. Don't worry if the excursion below 20Hz seems to go beyond Xmax at low power. It will due to a very low qtc alignment. The DS series drivers are almost impossible to bottom out and it takes WAY more power than winisd will show to push the driver beyond 20mm excursion. The driver does not respond linearly to power increases beyond Xmax and a little past 20mm one way even huge increases in power will not push it further. It is effectively done at 25mm no matter how much power is dumped in. 


  12. I'll reply a bit more later but let me say that when modeling for maximum output, otherwise known as  "Bench Racing", there are a number of limitations about simulations that should be kept in mind. 

    1.) Sims are usually greatly simplified and usually lack a variety of effects that occur in the real world like non linearity in the drivers BL, suspension, thermal effects in the voice coil, port and other air flow related losses, etc. All of these cause compression of the output.  

    2.) Sims are only as good as the data input.

    3.) Amplifiers are not constant power devices, they are constant voltage. Speaker impedance varies with frequency.

    4.) System output is usually limited by a number of different factors. Driver excursion, amplifier voltage, amplifier current and the resulting amplifier power are the main limitations. Which limitation kicks in first depends on the frequency range. There are also other factors such as vent compression, PR excursion limitations and thermal compression or power handling of the driver to consider. Horn Response allows a good approximation of max output based on entry of a number of these parameters. This is what Peniku was showing in his simulations. Limiting by wattage isn't really the best way to go about it. 

    5.) Power handling and xmax ratings are not all created equal. 

    6.) Eq can modify the driver excursion profile and which frequencies run the amplifier or driver into the limits first.  

    • Like 1

  13. Ahhhh. I think you're right.

    Unfortunately according to the SI website that may be the case for these drivers, which is a shame. I wonder how many were sold at the sale price last holiday season. Perhaps it'll be a small batch as requested type of deal. 

    I need to get my ass in gear and figure out what type of cabs I'm going to build to test these. I still have the giant sealed cab from the original HS-24 testing. I'm tempted to see if I can somehow cram 2 or 3, 6" aero-ports in that cab without too much trouble. 

    • Like 1

  14. What John is describing is very similar to how I do it.

    One difference is I run the sine wave looped back through the RTA and monitor the THD. It should be well below 1%. Once it starts to clip you'll see the harmonic content jump abruptly and THD shoot up over 1%. It usually happens very abruptly. If the device has a clipping indicator you may find this happens well before or well after the indicators. You do have to make sure that this is the output voltage clipping and not the input though. To reiterate a voltage divider will probably be required. I cheat and use one of my DCX2496's in the chain usually. They will take an input of >10 volts before clipping and can easily reduce the signal to something that your SC input can handle when looped back. Go through the components one piece at a time starting with the AVR, then adding the EQ unit and finally the amplifier. You want to eventually get the highest voltage cleanest signal that you can to your amplifier and then set the amplifier so that it is the first thing that clips. This also helps keep your electronic noise floor as low as possible.

    Definitely disconnect all speakers. They aren't needed for any of this testing. 


  15. On 9/13/2019 at 7:23 PM, radulescu_paul_mircea said:

    Found a solution. Instead of using an oscilloscope to look at the voltage, I got a device with -40 dB of voltage gain reduction, with galvanic separation to be used directly with a sound card. I can now use it to get measurements for sound output in paralel with voltage output. I can even use the output of the amplifier as an input reference for transfer function of the speaker alone, with any nonlinearity of the amp eliminated .

    But I can also measure the amp dynamically, in use, which is a nice feature

    Interesting. Are you planning to do any testing of this setup? What is "the device"?


  16. It's best to start out by defining some things. DIY can definitely offer some advantages and cost savings but the tradeoff is a higher amount of sweat equity and possible increased difficulty in integration and setup. Like More mentioned some of your goals are at odds with each other. 

    What is your budget?

    What size can you subwoofers be? Define some hard limits on the dimensions.

    How loud do you plan to listen? Are you wanting front row concert or EDM show levels or just good clean low end at moderate levels? 

    The best bang for the buck amplifiers are external rack mount pro amps. Plate amps cost more and must be accounted for in the enclosure design and build. Your post makes it seem like you would like the amp to be placed with the subwoofer where you have a pre-existing RCA cable. I recommend using XLR balanced cables where possible especially if going DIY. long runs of RCA unbalanced can have issues with noise. 

     


  17. On 9/18/2019 at 7:53 AM, menace said:

     Anyway going a bit too much off topic now I think. Sorry OP....

    Don't worry about it. It's kind of on topic anyway. 

    Personally I am not a fan of MDF. I don't like working with it and it doesn't hold screws well. Also it hates moisture.

    I'd rather use a cheap Arauco ply or similar if the 13ply void free stuff is too expensive. I've done a number of cabs out of cheaper ply materials and they've turned out fine. 

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