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Ricci

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Everything posted by Ricci

  1. Here's the design I'm going to be using to replace my Othorn. It's been "almost" done for a long time now but I finally made an effort to wrap it up to the point that it is ready to build. Originally I was going to go with another TH design I was calling the Palehorn to replace the Othorn but I wasn't quite happy with it. I stumbled on this type of cab a few years ago while doing a billion simulations of different cabinet designs. You can read some of that in the M.A.U.L. thread. I originally planned to try this design first since it was smaller and cheaper to produce but circumstances led to the bigger more complicated M.A.U.L. getting done first. Since this style of 6th order bandpass / horn cab worked quite well and on target with the bigger design, I used what was learned there to make a few tweaks to this and finally wrap it up. I'll add a lot more info later, but here are some pics to start with. If anyone feels froggy and wants to have a go at building one of these let me know and I'll send the plans. Simplified design layout. Add bracing, drivers, hatches, hardware to taste. PDF and DXF Plans Skhorn 221 print.pdf Skhorn 221 print.DXF
  2. Ricci

    Ricci's Skhorn Subwoofer & Files

    Agreed on the ID 18sound drivers vs the IPAL B&C's. I have the 21nlw9601 and a 21ID and they are identical outwardly. Only the sticker visually indicates a difference. I believe the 18Sounds simply use a heavier 4 layer coil to get more force on theirs vs the 9601 series, whereas the B&C drivers seem to have entirely different and beefier motors and coils.
  3. Ricci

    Horn length extension on Othorns?

    This looks like a fairly small room, with cinder block walls and a cement floor? Yeesh that room probably has an extraordinary amount of gain to begin with. Blowing out windows??? No wonder. What's the dimensions on that space? I'd bet there is some weird effects going on due to that connection to the other space. It'd be a good data point to see the before and after effects of closing that connection off. Looks like if he stacks 6 of the Othorns on the 36x36 side he would have the same height overall but save 12" of depth out into the room. What he does with the other 2 Othorns I'm not sure...Good luck with the endeavor. I'll be interested to see what you find. The 36" extension sounds like it may work and he definitely has headroom to spare so a loss of a few dB midband shouldn't be noticed.
  4. Ricci

    Horn length extension on Othorns?

    Fun fact... Mark and Jeff from JTR both used to work with Tom D. back in the day. They've both been around the block so to speak. Definitely have high level horn design and all around audio kungfu.
  5. Ricci

    Ricci's Skhorn Subwoofer & Files

    Good luck with whatever you end up deciding to do Paul. Share a bit when you can.
  6. Ricci

    Ricci's Skhorn Subwoofer & Files

    I'd probably just design a separate cabinet module or an identical 3rd Skhorn sub to be placed in the arrays to keep weight and size down. If the situation lends itself to it and you don't need a cardoid pattern so much, you can leave the extra size and weight at home. I don't like it all being built into the same cab even though it can greatly simplify the setup. YMMV
  7. Ricci

    Ricci's Skhorn Subwoofer & Files

    Great. Sounds like it'll work out for you.
  8. Yep still playing. Practicing 3 total days a week with 2 groups. Shows peppered in there as well. Wrapping up an EP recording etc... PM me your email and I'll try to send you a few tracks.
  9. Ricci

    Ricci's Skhorn Subwoofer & Files

    My advice would be to pay the operator to setup a cut program off of the print. It's not hard. He should no how to do that. Barring that perhaps someone will help you out.
  10. Ricci

    Samps DS21 Build

    I'd do xmech rating +2mm or something. You'd never ever hit that but you don't want to take that chance either.
  11. Ricci

    Samps DS21 Build

    Wobbles could be reflections from surfaces and vibration/resonances. I put about 150lbs on my speaker stand to drop the vibration resonance of the top section down below 5Hz. Otherwise it shows up in the impedance measurements. You'd be surprised what adding some weight and turning the cab just 15 degrees might do sometimes. I bet that desk isn't as stable as you'd think. I usually put my cabs on a bar stool if measuring in my garage and angle them towards the far corner then add a couple 50lb dumb bells and some sandbags on top. Larger cabs like Skhorns, MAULS, etc. get done outdoors.
  12. Ricci

    Samps DS21 Build

    Not having the driver bolted in will probably make the system a bit lossy too. I'd expect that standing the cab up and properly bolting in the driver and sealing it will probably sharpen the lower peak a little and perhaps lower it a bit more.
  13. Ricci

    Ricci's Skhorn Subwoofer & Files

    Im not real sure. Never tried it. Id guess at 3 or 4 inches minimum if driving it hard. If you try let us know how it works out.
  14. Ricci

    Samps DS21 Build

    Cheers Mike for helping Samps out.
  15. Pretty much what Mike said...We don't have official forum policy. There are a couple of us that are "mods", of which I'm one, but at this point it is mostly about having the rights needed just in case. Mostly for banning spammers that get through the gates occasionally. Small team and member pool here. There is no on-duty forum sheriff, 24/7 policing around here. Ain't nobody got time for that and really it's not needed. If someone acts like a true scumbag ass-hat they'll get the boot but that's never happened to this point. If this forum ever got really big and developed a problem with lots of post moderation needed I'd probably lean towards going to using real names for users. (I always have on audio forums anyway) That seems to prevent a lot of BS in the first place without having to employ a bunch of internet police.
  16. Ricci

    Samps DS21 Build

    Looks good. Yes I would expect your port to act a bit longer than what you have calculated for the length plus 90deg turn since it is close to the back wall. I'd guess it acts a good 3" longer than expected. Impedance measurement should show where it lands.
  17. Ricci

    Inductance modelling

    I've been talking with Bolserst through email. He's the guy doing a lot of the leg work on this with David McBean (HornResponse creator) over at DIYAudio forum. I've sent him some measurement files that he is going to look at. This is another one of those community projects that might turn out to benefit a whole lot of people.
  18. Interesting comparison of the declipper function Shred. Could you hear a difference? I know it might be difficult on some very short transient peaks but just wondering.
  19. Ricci

    Inductance modelling

    I have all of that it's just picking a format to report it in. LIMP offers several. Also the website isn't setup to accept it. I'd have to put it in the notes or on the forums.
  20. Ricci

    Inductance modelling

    Will WT2 export text? That may be enough to import into REW and let it calculate.
  21. Ricci

    Ricci's Skhorn Subwoofer & Files

    If you use something like the PZB100 drivers you will probably lose around 10-12dB in maximum output when compared to the version I have with the 21Ipal's.
  22. Ricci

    Othorn - HT capable?

    Vented boxes can have problems that have resulted in a common preconception of what ported sounds like. Typically this is formed by years of listening to commercial, or mass market vented subs that are undersized, underported, using a cheap driver, badly built or braced, tuned way too high, bad integration into the room acoustics, or some combination of all of it. A "good" vented design can sound excellent. I tend to prefer modern, high power, professional woofers for vented cabs. SME is correct...Huge spaces and outdoors present much different problems than smaller domestic sized spaces. Small spaces have a huge impact on the bass range. They often help "turbocharge" the output capabilities of the sub/s, which can help mask operational noises, but can also jack up the frequency response and decay characteristics. Outdoors it is MUCH easier to hear defects in the output of a sub that may be missed entirely in a room. This was part of the Skhorn design process was attempting to clean up as much of the typical operational noises and distortion as possible. It is intended to be used outdoor or 50,000 cu ft venues. In a home it's far more likely that the house and furnishings will be complaining well before a sub like that. This is why I prefer big horns, BP's or vented for high output, big space work. In my home I chose to use sealed subs (4 cabs with 8 drivers total). A single gigantic sub is often not ideal in a small room. I get that sometimes you just want a certain thing even though something else may work just as well. I'm guilty of it myself at times. The issue with horn subs is that they have to be big to get to 20Hz or lower. You can cheat a bit and undersize them but then they start to lose efficiency, headroom and the response gets jagged. Even worse is that it starts to cause issues with ringing. This is why most people don't have horn subs in their home. A well designed 20Hz horn is going to be big. This goes for a FLH , TH, what have you. For example the Othorn is pretty small for a high output TH that can really hit 25Hz. This is also the reason that there aren't nearly as many horn subs designed to go to 20Hz or lower. Usually when someone starts a thread like this my first questions are these, some of which you've answered. Budget? Listening habits: % music / % movies / how loud? How much space can you dedicate to the subwoofers? Current system / subs / room? What do you hope to improve about the sound of your current system?
  23. Ricci

    B&C 21DS115

    I had a chance to pull the specs from these after a bit of mild 20Hz break in. I have the 4ohm versions. This is about as close as I've seen to matching factory specs. This driver is encouraging so far. It's light and $100 cheaper than the 21SW152. The only thing I was disappointed with so far is they used a smaller diameter spider than on the Ipal and 152. It has a smaller coil diameter so the bigger 6" formers need a bigger spider but the large one would've improved suspension linearity most likely. I assume they did it for mechanical protection where the smaller spiders increased stiffness will keep things under control if hit with too much power. More later. Specs I pulled. Like I said this is really really close. They've got a pretty low DCR on this driver but it is so efficient that the impedance peak is huge so it'll likely be at or above 3 ohms min between 10-125Hz. Parameter Value Dim Fs 31.51 Hz Re 2.2 ohms[dc] Qt 0.2 - Qes 0.2 - Qms 6.86 - Mms 379.75 grams Rms 10.95386 kg/s Cms 0.000067 m/N Vas 266.34 liters Sd 1680.02 cm^2 Bl 28.52571 Tm ETA 3.94 % Lp(2.83V/1m) 103.67 dB Le 821.03 uH L2 1930.6 uH R2 57.1 ohms L3 0 uH R3 0 ohms 1kHz Le 2.62mH
  24. Ricci

    B&C 21DS115

    The WW cab is a good data point and just about the Goldilocks size for this driver for HT. Honestly I wouldn't go any bigger for this driver for a vented cab tuned near 18-20Hz. It just doesn't need it. 10-12ft seems about perfect. Any bigger would hit the point of diminishing returns. Don't forget that you'll likely get some lift below 30Hz in room. 3 to 6dB in the 16-20Hz range is a good general guess. 20ft would be great for 2 drivers though.
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