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Ricci

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Everything posted by Ricci

  1. Here's the design I'm going to be using to replace my Othorn. It's been "almost" done for a long time now but I finally made an effort to wrap it up to the point that it is ready to build. Originally I was going to go with another TH design I was calling the Palehorn to replace the Othorn but I wasn't quite happy with it. I stumbled on this type of cab a few years ago while doing a billion simulations of different cabinet designs. You can read some of that in the M.A.U.L. thread. I originally planned to try this design first since it was smaller and cheaper to produce but circumstances led to the bigger more complicated M.A.U.L. getting done first. Since this style of 6th order bandpass / horn cab worked quite well and on target with the bigger design, I used what was learned there to make a few tweaks to this and finally wrap it up. I'll add a lot more info later, but here are some pics to start with. If anyone feels froggy and wants to have a go at building one of these let me know and I'll send the plans. Simplified design layout. Add bracing, drivers, hatches, hardware to taste. PDF and DXF Plans Skhorn 221 print.pdf Skhorn 221 print.DXF
  2. Inductance modelling

    I have all of that it's just picking a format to report it in. LIMP offers several. Also the website isn't setup to accept it. I'd have to put it in the notes or on the forums.
  3. Inductance modelling

    Will WT2 export text? That may be enough to import into REW and let it calculate.
  4. Ricci's Skhorn Subwoofer & Files

    If you use something like the PZB100 drivers you will probably lose around 10-12dB in maximum output when compared to the version I have with the 21Ipal's.
  5. Othorn - HT capable?

    Vented boxes can have problems that have resulted in a common preconception of what ported sounds like. Typically this is formed by years of listening to commercial, or mass market vented subs that are undersized, underported, using a cheap driver, badly built or braced, tuned way too high, bad integration into the room acoustics, or some combination of all of it. A "good" vented design can sound excellent. I tend to prefer modern, high power, professional woofers for vented cabs. SME is correct...Huge spaces and outdoors present much different problems than smaller domestic sized spaces. Small spaces have a huge impact on the bass range. They often help "turbocharge" the output capabilities of the sub/s, which can help mask operational noises, but can also jack up the frequency response and decay characteristics. Outdoors it is MUCH easier to hear defects in the output of a sub that may be missed entirely in a room. This was part of the Skhorn design process was attempting to clean up as much of the typical operational noises and distortion as possible. It is intended to be used outdoor or 50,000 cu ft venues. In a home it's far more likely that the house and furnishings will be complaining well before a sub like that. This is why I prefer big horns, BP's or vented for high output, big space work. In my home I chose to use sealed subs (4 cabs with 8 drivers total). A single gigantic sub is often not ideal in a small room. I get that sometimes you just want a certain thing even though something else may work just as well. I'm guilty of it myself at times. The issue with horn subs is that they have to be big to get to 20Hz or lower. You can cheat a bit and undersize them but then they start to lose efficiency, headroom and the response gets jagged. Even worse is that it starts to cause issues with ringing. This is why most people don't have horn subs in their home. A well designed 20Hz horn is going to be big. This goes for a FLH , TH, what have you. For example the Othorn is pretty small for a high output TH that can really hit 25Hz. This is also the reason that there aren't nearly as many horn subs designed to go to 20Hz or lower. Usually when someone starts a thread like this my first questions are these, some of which you've answered. Budget? Listening habits: % music / % movies / how loud? How much space can you dedicate to the subwoofers? Current system / subs / room? What do you hope to improve about the sound of your current system?
  6. B&C 21DS115

    I had a chance to pull the specs from these after a bit of mild 20Hz break in. I have the 4ohm versions. This is about as close as I've seen to matching factory specs. This driver is encouraging so far. It's light and $100 cheaper than the 21SW152. The only thing I was disappointed with so far is they used a smaller diameter spider than on the Ipal and 152. It has a smaller coil diameter so the bigger 6" formers need a bigger spider but the large one would've improved suspension linearity most likely. I assume they did it for mechanical protection where the smaller spiders increased stiffness will keep things under control if hit with too much power. More later. Specs I pulled. Like I said this is really really close. They've got a pretty low DCR on this driver but it is so efficient that the impedance peak is huge so it'll likely be at or above 3 ohms min between 10-125Hz. Parameter Value Dim Fs 31.51 Hz Re 2.2 ohms[dc] Qt 0.2 - Qes 0.2 - Qms 6.86 - Mms 379.75 grams Rms 10.95386 kg/s Cms 0.000067 m/N Vas 266.34 liters Sd 1680.02 cm^2 Bl 28.52571 Tm ETA 3.94 % Lp(2.83V/1m) 103.67 dB Le 821.03 uH L2 1930.6 uH R2 57.1 ohms L3 0 uH R3 0 ohms 1kHz Le 2.62mH
  7. B&C 21DS115

    The WW cab is a good data point and just about the Goldilocks size for this driver for HT. Honestly I wouldn't go any bigger for this driver for a vented cab tuned near 18-20Hz. It just doesn't need it. 10-12ft seems about perfect. Any bigger would hit the point of diminishing returns. Don't forget that you'll likely get some lift below 30Hz in room. 3 to 6dB in the 16-20Hz range is a good general guess. 20ft would be great for 2 drivers though.
  8. Othorn - HT capable?

    The Othorn really operates best with the 21SW152-4, but the 21DS115-4 could work. In an apartment at those relatively low levels it could probably get down to 20Hz with a bit of EQ but it really is designed as a 25Hz and up sub. Even though the SB16 is a decent sealed sub that can technically go way lower than the Othorn it is not going to have greater headroom until below 20Hz. These are completely different sub designs with much different goals. The Othorn has so much more headroom I can't see how you would possibly use even 10% of it in an apartment. It should sound great operating at such a relaxed output level though. As an alternative you could do a Skhorn or a half of one, which can go lower than the Othorn depending on vent config and would be slightly smaller. Have you thought about doing a vented subwoofer with a 18 or 21" pro style driver that is bigger than the SB16 but not quite so big or heavy as the Othorn? It should still have plenty of extra headroom for your needs and be much higher efficiency to match your mains.
  9. Inductance modelling

    I've been following it. Not much time to post but I lurk over there a lot.
  10. Sundown ZV4 18D2 - sealed enclosure

    Put some PL premium or a bunch of wood glue in there and screw it through the wall. Should be fine.
  11. Ricci's Skhorn Subwoofer & Files

    I've got one of those and a 21ID for testing that they sent me by mistake. Was supposed to be 2 9601's. No measurements yet or for awhile probably. However I wouldn't hesitate to buy em and trust the factory specs. They have a good rep and VC mag has tested the 18" and a bunch of other 18S drivers. I expect that the 21SW152 might be just a bit "more" but a 21" like these for $400 is a killer deal. Should match up with the Skhorn and Othorn cabs well. Should be great vented too. EDIT: They dropped another $20 to 374...
  12. Ricci's Skhorn Subwoofer & Files

    Another deal...$394 18Sound 21NLW9601
  13. Ricci's Skhorn Subwoofer & Files

    Buy em now people!
  14. Both Kyle and myself have wanted to allow user submitted content for a long time. It's just a matter of how to go about it and separate it from " official" content. etc.
  15. It's not difficult. Just "make" a text which exhibits the desired delay for the overlay using excel or something. Save the files and import the measurements for the comparison. I've never had anyone really inquire about it so I never thought to post the ones I made.
  16. I gotta say Kyle the new site looks much better. The Klipsch example link really puts that in perspective.
  17. I vote that we let users add graphs, content, build plans, etc. 1 guy can only produce so much content. As far as social media I'll let you guys in on a secret. I've never been active on any form of social media. I don't plan to be either. From what I recall Kyle isn't either. That's why we don't have any of that for DB! Neither one of us wants to deal with it!
  18. Bulding the Room2 listening room

    Most of the time direct vibration transmission from the sub enclosure, into the floor and structure, is probably negligible, or of much less concern than the vibration caused by acoustic transmission. However we can't make a blanket statement and say it is never an issue. A worst case scenario might be something like: A suspended floor, hard surface, down firing driver/s or PR's which are not mirrored, very high mms, lightweight enclosure, sub being driven very hard. In this hypothetically bad scenario or something similar it may indeed be an issue. For most typical sub designs in a carpeted space it's unlikely to be worth addressing IMHO.
  19. Small yet Mighty. The tale of the 12's

    That's right. I almost forgot about that. Actually Indy and Evansville are about the same distance for me. I'm in Floyd County down by Louisville. I like this idea. Old school looks with updated performance. Holy crap that's a lot of 12's...Projects for years.
  20. Small yet Mighty. The tale of the 12's

    Cool build. Good luck. I will be following along
  21. Big thanks to SME for fixing the images

    Way to go guys. Thanks for the help SME.
  22. Bulding the Room2 listening room

    Your room looks good. What are the dimensions? I can't tell if your ceilings are high or the width of the room is small.
  23. iPAL enclosure details

    Hey Paul it is noisy. I had heard this from others before I tried it. Nathan Funk mentioned it to me first. You are yet another commenting on it. Looks like it is an artifact of the system. It kind of prevents it from being useful in a quiet home environment or studio. It is unfortunate. I didn't know they had clamped down on the output capability in the software and derated it a little. I was a bit disappointed with how it compares to a k20 too. Mine also seems to run quite hot. Does yours? The SP amps will kick its butt on a sustained power basis. No doubt about that and they are much cheaper here. I just wish the SP amps had a more modern dsp front end.
  24. Ricci's Skhorn Subwoofer & Files

    Odd because there does appear to be a lot of noise in the 10m measures. Thanks for clarifying
  25. Ricci's Skhorn Subwoofer & Files

    I looked at this set of measurements. It looks like you were taking measurements at distances of 1/2/4 and 10 meters with the following orientations: Directly on axis, turned 90deg, 135deg and 180deg? This set of measurements was conducted on a single cab, dual cabs, and quad set of cabs. Is this correct? One thing that immediately jumped out at me is that the background noise floor is quite high. Looks like about 75-80dB. The 4m and 10m measurements are affected greatly by the noise level. If you ever do this type of testing again try using a 100w nominal input voltage for all of the measurements. 20 volts for a 4 ohm nominal cab for instance. This will be a lot louder but it is necessary when doing measurements like this in a noisy environment especially at 10m. Any good bass cab will take that much input with no problem and little compression even for 20 sweeps back to back. I even leave it at that drive level for the 1m measurement and just normalize it -20dB for the 1w nominal level.
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