Jump to content

Infrasonic

Members
 View Profile  See their activity

  • Posts

    942

  • Joined

  • Days Won

    53

 Content Type 

Posts posted by Infrasonic

  1. The Bass EQ for Movies Thread

    in Bass Content

    Posted

    4 hours ago, Pradeep said:

    Thanks for doing this maxmercy.

    Just joined, been contemplating this thread for quite some time and finally ordered a dcx2496 to implement the beq for lfe and center channels. Lfe is a PSA S7201 and two Reaction gamma 21s VNF, and i have two PSA S15s running as subs for the center channel with a 210C sitting on top. I also have four um18s in sealed 4cuft flatpacks and two berry ep4000s, hopefully I can use the third channel of the 2496 to implement eq for those.

     

    Mmmm...

    A gear list like that makes me get a fizzy sensation somewhere behind my penis but not in my prostate.

    Does anyone else get a fizzy sensation behind their penis or is it just me?

     

    ?

     

  2. The Low Frequency Content Thread (films, games, music, etc)

    in Bass Content

    Posted

    2 hours ago, SME said:

    I can agree to your first statements, but I'm confused by what you mean in bold here.  Do you mean to say that there are many more unfiltered movies than it appears because many movies are not measured here?

    Yes, good surround mixing is a big plus too, as well as is overall better tonal balance, which also has a big impact on the perception of both bass and ambiance.

    Haha. My bad. I think it should have said, "spectrum of movie titles". If all you do is watch rom-com's from the 90's, you're not going to find a lot of ULF. ;)

    I'm slowly losing my mind.... it's okay. :lol:

     

    I won't say there are "many more" unfiltered movies than umm...filtered movies because I'm starting to wonder if your idea of "unfiltered" means a flat PvA curve...

    Everything we hear in movies is 100% studio creation so they are under no obligation to be flat-to-DC type extension in their audio mix in every single release. Is it really a surprise that the overall curve of most movie's bass PvA looks very similar to the capabilities of pro-style cinema sub-bass systems?

     

    I agree with your last sentence. :)

     

  3. The Low Frequency Content Thread (films, games, music, etc)

    in Bass Content

    Posted

    3 hours ago, Droogne said:

    Well I didnt pick them because of their bass content, but because liked them very much, and they have gorgeous visuals :) I did however notice the lack of true subbass content, so good to know it's the films themselves, and not my system. I see Captain America: Winter Soldier is up there on the list, and oh boy what a coincidence! I was gonna watch that one with my 2 little brothers (10 and 12yo) in preparation of infinity war. Thanks for the scene list, will see if I can get my hands on some of those titles. 

    Enjoy!

    3 hours ago, Droogne said:

    Does anyone know how much ULF content the Dolby Atmos demo discs features? That is one impressive list of clips (surround wise).. My brothers jaw literally dropped on the floor. It's my new number 1 clip. The ULF did seem amazing in it. Can I measure this myself? I have an UMIK-1 but I have no idea how to measure something like that. The clips are only 30 seconds long most of the time. 

     

    Not much. There will be some, sure but not a note-worthy amount. The point of those demos is to demo Atmos. ;)

    3 hours ago, SME said:

    Unfortunately, the trend with newer movies seems to be more filter

    Hogwash.

    It only seems like a "trend" because audio enthusiasts started graphing bass when things started to get interesting and the industry has reeled back, for the most part, since. Look at it another way and bass content in film <25hz is the exception rather than the rule. For every "filtered" new movie there is one or more that isn't. Also depends on what bandwidth of movie titles you consume.

    Fortunately, the trend with newer movies is better surround mixes but we don't talk about that here. :P

     

    • Like 1

  4. The Low Frequency Content Thread (films, games, music, etc)

    in Bass Content

    Posted

    Agreed with @maxmercy list there.

    Both Dunkirk and Jedi will not be great titles to test <20hz content, imo. They will both have powerful bass but >20hz (which isn't a bad thing).

     

    I can think of a handful of "scenes" to test out for true ULF.

     

     

    Entering the Grid - Tron Legacy

    Elysium - laser templates being cycled through before cutting into Bugattipod

    Captain America: Winter Solider - vending machine

    Hurt Locker - M2 .50cal scene

    Lone Survivor - the whole Chinook sequence

    Edge of Tomorrow - opening title ULF

    Dredd - interrogation scene

    Pulse - server scene (~18hz but sustained, trip dem breakers!)

     

    and more

     

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1

  14. The Low Frequency Content Thread (films, games, music, etc)

    in Bass Content

    Posted

    1 hour ago, MrEdge said:

    Some effects were pumped up also.  the difference can be heard especially when the robot get out of the water there is this drone from the engine that is almost impossible to hear in the dta ma track 7.1 but it's loud and heavy in the atmos track and adds allot to the sceen. this is a small one but i am going through the movie and will do longer waterfall of the first battle to really compare full heavy scenes.

    Interesting! I do know what you're talking about. Always wondered why I could never hear/feel this effect on my main rig but could in other rooms on hdtv feeds of PR.

    The UHD version is on my Amazon UHD wishlist for dat Atmos. Will get it eventually. Looks like a good upgrade. Would love to sync the 3D version to the new Atmos audio. But that goes without saying.

  17. The Low Frequency Content Thread (films, games, music, etc)

    in Bass Content

    Posted

    3 hours ago, maxmercy said:

    Wow, that looks like a track AFTER BEQ.   Hope it doesn't clip everywhere....should have an incredible Dynamics score.

    Thanks MrEdge!

    JSS

    Haven't seen this one yet. Wanted to catch it in theaters but missed it. It does look good, on paper at least. Could be a quiet one with only a handful of "good bass" scenes.

    12 hours ago, SME said:

    Didn't you get the memo?  Only drama films are allowed to have full-bandwidth bass soundtracks now.  :P

    Haha! Yeah, really.

  21. X-curve compensation re-EQ

    in Bass Content

    Posted

    13 hours ago, maxmercy said:

    Audyssey's Dynamic EQ may do more that that...

    Best news I have heard in a while; possibly confirmed by my experience with Star Wars:The Last Jedi, where I guessed the level of playback on an opening night showing within 0.5 'units' on the Dolby Box (confirmed by the theater's general manager).   Good to know the theatrical/home mixes aren't substantially different at Technicolor (still where FilmMixer is at?).

    JSS

    That's my point. The difference between the mixing stage and our homes is wildly different.

    We keep constantly trying to justify things we do/believe about how we hear things at home and compare it to how things work in a large acoustic space to our living rooms or even how the things we hear are made in the first place.

    It must also be made clear what Marc does. He is a Re-recording Mixer. That is, the guy who gets all the stuff at the end and makes sure it works. *insert snarky comment about mixes not working cuz not enough bass or something* He doesn't create the effects. He's not the guy "making the bass". He is making sure all the elements are where they need to be and the levels between them are good. At no point is he EQ'ing anything. There are engineers working alongside (or at other times) that would have done that. So you have to understand when I ask him questions, it's coming from his PoV. There will always be a disconnect between what he does and what we demand as end users. Though his passion outside of work is no different from us. He loves consumer A/V equipment just like us.

    Not sure how he'd feel about telling people where or what he is working on currently so I'm going to skip that part. Just not sure if I should give out other peoples personal info, I mean. Apparently he did post here so I'll leave it to him to reply about what he is doing right now.

    12 hours ago, dgage said:

    For the mixing/studio room silly. :)  But hey, most theaters only do 30Hz and up so maybe a single ported 24 would be plenty. :)

    His mixing/studio room IS a full sized cinema auditorium though. ;)

    Even a single ported 24 would have a lot of work to do.

    Do you make a ported 24 now? I'd like to see that, fo sho! :)

    7 hours ago, SME said:

    I assume you mean to say here that no EQ is done on home mixes.  I presume EQ is almost always used extensively for the original mix on the dub-stage.

    Right.

    There is no part in his workflow where he "EQ's" the sound. Somebody else has already done that by the time he gets it.

    Also, multiple mixes are made for a movie for various reasons. Comparing one mix to another usually leads to confusion and it should because nobody here created them.

    7 hours ago, SME said:

    Even still, I seriously doubt that your statements here are true in general. 

     

    Well, there ya go.

     

    7 hours ago, SME said:

     

    They may be true for @FilmMixer and how he approaches home mixes but his approach may not be representative of how other home mixes are done. 

    Obviously. You should retain this statement in your head and really remember it. :P

    7 hours ago, SME said:

    My guess, based partly on what I hear, is that home mixing practices vary all over the place. 

    Yes. The illusion we put upon ourselves is that following standards will "level the playing field" but that is not the case in reality.

    7 hours ago, SME said:

    I'd bet that many home mixes are being re-EQed in some fashion. 

    Yes, of course. That is how they sound how they sound. Everything that is sound that isn't pure untouched recordings of life, are artificially made. Creations born out of a computer or mixing board. There is nothing "pure" in the music we listen to and especially the movies we watch.

    7 hours ago, SME said:

     

    Furthermore, many are being subject to significant dynamics processing, for better or worse.

    That goes without saying for everything that is produced.

    7 hours ago, SME said:

    Furthermore, I don't consider deviations from the cinema track to be offensive.  I'm not a purist in any sense.  I just want excellent sound quality for my high performing home system, whatever that takes.

    We all do and we all have our own opinion on how it should be done. ;)

    7 hours ago, SME said:

     

      I have no desire to duplicate the cinema experience, as it exists now.  Even ignoring bass performance differences, my home system sounds leaps and bounds better when playing back high quality home mixes, presumably those that were re-EQed while being monitored on high-quality neutral speakers in a high quality small-room listening environment vs. a near-field or acoustically dead environment.

    Presumably.

    7 hours ago, SME said:

    No bubbles are being burst here.  Maybe I'm all wrong in my justification for doing this, but I can state with confidence that the re-EQ I do provides better sound.  It's not silly subtle audiophile stuff.  It's plain-as-day improvement on titles that need it, even when using fairly generic / coarse corrections.  The opinion(s) of one or more film mixers aren't going to make me change my practice, but they may make me feel disappointed that others are not able to hear these soundtracks at their best.

    Yes, of course. To achieve the best sound, you should EQ to personal taste. ;)

    ...to personal taste.

     

    ......to personal taste.

     

    :P

     

     

  23. X-curve compensation re-EQ

    in Bass Content

    Posted

    Soo...

     

    I had a talk with my friend who mixes feature films for a living.

    http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0279892/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1

    The "x-curve" does still exist, I was wrong there. But... it is not a part of the mix. The compensation for the screen and losses from distance are done during the calibration of the system, per screen. There is no EQ done and it is not a mandate for the home "nearfield" mixes that anything of the sort is applied to the mix itself. Minor adjustments to levels to surrounds and dialog (~1dB deviation from theatrical) are about as offensive as it gets.

     

    Sorry to burst yer bubble but.... ;)

     

  25. The Low Frequency Content Thread (films, games, music, etc)

    in Bass Content

    Posted

    17 hours ago, SME said:

    Do double-check with your friend, but I'm quite certain that calibration to the X-curve is still standard for cinema.  And that is true despite better screen materials and compression driver tech.

    Will do.

    I do know that the Xcurve is not baked into the actual mix. This EQ is part of the calibration of the system in the room itself. Not apart of the mix.

    Quote

    Yes, it absolutely does kill headroom, effectively, when compared to how things work for music and "home" mixes..  The 4-6 dB figure is a rough estimate on my part.

    "compared to how things work for music (no standards) and "home mixes.."

    Well... now see. That's the problem. You're conflating issues that exist across a varying multitude of different circumstances, layouts, equipment, expectations, etc. What can be applied as good methods for one market will not yield identical results in another. You're probably going to go on a long thing about inroom response and different attenuation levels and response shapes and all that stuff. :P

    Large room acoustics =/= small room acoustics.

    Quote

    The cinema basically calibrates for a flat power response, even though a flat speaker under similar circumstances is likely to develop an in-room response with much more tilt.  This approach is flawed from the outset because research strongly supports flat direct sound response as preferred over flat power response.  While music production does not rely on any standards....

    Omg... who'd of guessed. :P

    Quote

    Argh, see what you made me do?  I wish I could explain it more easily.  The gist is that the X-curve standard is flawed and leads to somewhat consistent attenuation of the highs and very inconsistent attenuation of the lows during calibration, and the compensation performed during the re-recording mix costs headroom.

    Well. You didn't have to. There are parts in what you say that are accurate and some that are wildly inaccurate. But that's okay. :D I'm too lazy (and at work :ph34r:) to even bother correcting anything. Either way, I already look like an asshole and just don't have it in me to defend my own statements. Ya'll believe whatever you want to believe.

    Don't have the energy to debate against full audiophile mode. Sorry. I just enjoy movies, enjoy how they are made (even when it frustrates me) and like to replicate the cinema experience at home. *shrugs*

     

    Lol, I have outlived my usefulness on these audio boards. I'm just here to have a good time. :P

×
×
  • Create New...