EndersShadow

Yes. I took a TON of measurements once I got the distances locked in earlier last week. I took measurements at the following locations: Armrest (far right side), middle of the outer cushion, between the middle cushion and outer cushion, the center of the middle cushion, and lastly between the middle cushion and the center of the sectional. I measured (but didnt use in the average) the dead center of the sectional, but threw it out of the mix because its literally less than a foot away from one of the subs so the response will be crappy no matter what I do there. The image below will help better explain what I mean in case its not clear. The ones with X in them were taken but NOT used in the averages. *Note* the Sonotubes (up front) are NOT yet in play. I took 3 groupings of those measurements at different distances in the room. One close to the back, one in the middle of the cushion, and one in front of the seats. I then averaged all those measurements and used that average to generate the REW filters I've used (the fact the picture says REW 9 filters indicates it my 9th iteration* of filters I'm trying lol). Once I install a new set of filters in the Mini I then redo XT32, (measuring the subs as a single combined unit) and run the same set of measurements again to get an UPDATED average measurement across that same grouping (show in the picture in green). Then I added boosts until the response looked decent and ran those exact same locations AGAIN to get my LAST average (shown in the picture in tan). *Each time I redo the setup I learn a bit more. This time I decided to NOT cut down the top end nearly as much as I was and simply boost the low end to even it up. @Ricci If you want me to I can zip them and send them to you to look at. I'm not going to say I fully understand REW and what its telling me (outside the fact I have some long decay in the waterfall graphs and I think distortion is much higher than I'd like *as a result of my boost obviously*).

Latest REW sweep... like this a LOT more...

I’m pretty happy with XT32.... just tired of redoing it once a day lol. Once I’m happy with the sub sweeps with the filters then I will redo XT32...

I have no idea if the MiniDSP scan do a Linkwitz transform..... I will take a look. It’s a 5.5 cf box (so maybe 5.0 after bracing and drivers).... with 4 of the JBLs and I have modeled it in WinISD..... I know boosting that much may not be a good idea, so I’m still experimenting to see how I can extend the bottom without sacrificing the top end too much... I think for now I’m going to focus on dialing in the Mini and just turn off XT32 until I’m happy with the results..

Well I only have to integrate with L/R right now as I'm only stereo (long story)...... I also have a large space because the entire first floor is basically open to each other, plus the loft, etc....... My hope was that the 3x increase in cone surface area would net some significant gains but we will see.... I'm on a slab so some signal shaping will be needed regardless..... I'm going to try and revert back to the blue line..... I'm overly complicating this and the results are only getting worse...

Best part.... they are NOT in play..... so they should help provide some additional smoothness in the response. I did a bad thing and redid everything last night and need to make some more adjustments this morning as the final result wasnt as nice as what I posted above. In the graphs above I cut a lot off the top so I didnt have to boost the bottom end. Last night I did the opposite. I DIDNT cut as much off the top end, hoping to raise the low end post filters and XT32. It didnt turn out as well as I'd hoped, so I'm starting over again in hopes I can almost re-create or BEST what I posted above...

So I decided to redo everything again last night. Thankfully since I save all my REW graphs I used the original Average to generate a new filter file and went from there. I was a little bit more generous in the REW flatness target and boost section and I think it paid off. These measurements have no smoothing applied Here is the new filter file. Here is the result of the new average post XT32 v the prior one. The same average v the prior average WITH BOOST. This is all three. As you can see its a fair compromise between them all.

Found my UMIK mic and had some time so I started doing some tweaking...... my graph looks good but I need to let things settle a bit before I determine if tonight was a total success. I feel like I'm missing some of what I had earlier this evening. Here is what I did in case someone notices something obviously wrong. I turned off XT32, set the Crossover for my bass in my Denon to 250 and took measurements. I tweaked the distance in the MiniDSP between my subs until it looked the best I could get it. I used REW to calculate filters which I applied to my MiniDSP. Then I went and ran XT32, but each of my subs are on a separate sub channel. Once XT32 was done I took measurements again and they appeared improved. At that point I added my boost and took my last set of measurements for the night. I've attached the REW Filters I used (mainly bringing down the top end) on the initial configuration, as well as the final REW graphs.

hehehehe.... yeah I know.... and I still got two Sonotubes to wrap up.... Its a combination of both of us being busy and trying to find a time where its not STUPID HOT outside, but not too cold either lol... Yesterday was really hot and humid in the morning and with the shade in the afternoon it got a bit better...... it does help he's got a pool.... Goal is by end of August to have the Sonotubes finished. Then I can EQ everything........ I wish I could go larger like a couple of you guys but thats not a possibility lol.....

@Ricci I figured I would at least mention that it may have crossed my mind once or twice to buy one of those 21's since the enclosure opening is 24" tall and 28" wide.... woulda been a really cool look.... but with wanting to match to the other 12's it would have been much harder to make them all play nice....

I'm an update on this thread (found here) which mainly covers the Sonotubes. I will post my update from today since its a completion of one of the enclosures. The sonotubes are still a WIP and hope to wrap those up before it gets too cold (but waiting till its not to stupid hot out too).... **************************************************************************************************** Massive update from yesterday. Had a marathon day to complete the Organ Donor build and it is alive and kicking. I got up at 4:30 AM on Sunday morning, got in the car and drove to my buddys in Evansville. I arrived around 7:00 and we got to work quick. First things first we decided to remove MOST of the existing front baffle. We ended up leaving the sides mainly because we were scared of damaging the finish on the visible sides with the cutter. This worked good because it left the mounting screws for the original grill, and also ensured I have MORE than enough space for cone movement before it hits the grill. We decided the best size box was to leaving some space at the top (there are pieces connecting the existing panel together there we didnt want to screw with), and also leave the bottom (original plan was to remove that as well and drop the box to the floor). After those sizing adjustments we ended up with a box with these dimensions. I was shooting for a 6 cubic foot box but in all liklehood am closer to 5.0 (5.3 prior to drivers and bracing). Since its a sealed box and these JBL's aren't known for digging deep, I wont lose much down low, and I plan to EQ them with a shelf filter anyway. The box came along nicely as it wasnt as much a PITA as cutting 150 million baffles for the Sonotubes. Once it was all glued up and the glue set we did a test fit. We discovered our initial plan (the box goes up, rotates in) wouldnt work as the tolerance for the turn was too tight. This was done initially to save the rear horizontal piece that held part of the top grill on, and just looked quite nice. We ending up takign CONSIDERABLE time to remove it as carefully as we could, so it could be reattached later. The box fit like a glove, so tight in fact I will need to install nylon straps at the back to aid with removing the box if I need to work on it as it wont budge unless you pull it out JUST right lol... At this point (it was close to 2:30 PM) I left my buddys house and drove the 2 hours 45 min trip back to mine to continue working on the box. Rather than go with duratex, my buddy had some leftover black speaker box carpet, so in the interest of time I decided to use that instead. It went on fairly easily with spray adhesive and looks great. Plus the front grill isnt easily removed, so I wont be showing that off much if at all. I ended up installing the fabric on the front and back of the enclosure. I also sanded down the bottom of the Hammond PR cabinet and attached fabric there as there is a small portion that could be viewable with the grill on, and it also helps slide the box in. The sides and top currently have no fabric. I HAVE debated installing patches on the side of the Hammond cabinet for similar reasons to why I did it on the bottom of the box. I have extra so we will see. After installing it I did a test fit to ensure it would still fit. Tolerance at the top was tight to begin with so was concerned if I still could get it in. Much easier to man handle a box without 4 drivers weighing it down lol. Some of you may notice I didn't seal all the sections of the box. My OCD lead me to start, and in the interest of time I stopped. I made a few compromises and this is always something I can go back and do later if its even needed (likely not we used a TON of glue when building the box) The rear actually looks better than I thought it would. I was originally unsure if I should carpet or paint it (which would have happened at a later date). I'm glad I went with carpet just to get it done. I think it was around 10:30 pm before I had the box fully carpeted. Wiring the 4 drivers was a lot of "fun". 4 SVC 4 ohm drivers wired to a 4 ohm load. Lots of quick disconnects and fun. I wired and tested them to ensure the were all playing prior to screwing them into the cabinet. Easier to troubleshoot that way. Here is the wiring diagram I used to wire everything. Here is the final product, completed at around 1:00 am on Monday morning (the next day). Its currently missing the front grill which is mounted using screws from behind, so its a PITA to take off, so for now while I dial in EQ and whatnot I'm leaving it detached. It also needs some cleaning up which will be done in the next day or two. Whats left for me to do now is all based on some of the compromises I made yesterday just to get this up and running. I bought a bunch of REALLY nice connectors from David Gage of Deep Sea to use initially, but in order to get it up and running,I just used drywall screws for now. Since I have only a single 3/4" baffle I would have had to install blocking (8 pieces) on the back of the box for each drivers, meaning installing 32 pieces of blocking, then drilling, mounting hardware, etc. I can always do that at a later date. I also didnt have any speaker gasket, but with the carpet and a really tight fit I think the drivers will be OK for now. Also made a compromise on the speaker wiring. I bought really nice 14 gauge Furez speaker wire. The quick disconnects I got weren't super tight so I did a lot of extra crimping to make them work. Also since I needed to combine a few wire together and the disconnects were only rated for a single 14 gauge run, I ended up cutting a 1" section out about 2" above the disconnect and stripping that section, and then pairing the connected wire to it, then wrapped the whole portion with lots of electrical tape to keep it safe. At a later date I may go back in and solder those connections, I just didnt have the material for that on me. I also need to buy some pillows and stuff the box a bit. I'm aware of the data on how a box performs stuff v unstuffed on databass and that I may be giving up a bit of SPL to stuff it, but given that its literally less than 2 feet from my back, I am ok with that. All in all I'm super happy with how this box came out, and feel the few compromises I made were worth it to get this thing up and running. Hopefully today I can get it connected (have to pull out my rack and re-organize) and take some measurements and EQ it. Then I just need to wrap up my two Sonotubes, which we didnt even touch yesterday.

Lol.... it’s not the 21s that would be costly.... it would be the divorce attorney lol.... Although don’t think I wasn’t tempted as the organ sub I’m building has a 24” opening and would be approximately 6cf internal lol..... 1 21” is more impressive than 4 12s lol And same for my behind the sofa build... it’s about 24” tall but I’m limited in depth to 8” total (not just interior).... otherwise id seriously consider it lol.... at least the 4 ohm ones you have (i think)....

I look forward to seeing what emerges from your "vault" Ricci. I have NO NEEDS.... but I ALWAYS have WANTS lol..... And your close enough for me to drive to and save on shipping....

Looks good! I was gonna say something about viewing in mobile..... but you guys already know that, so instead just gonna say ”Good Job, Carry On...”

Awww snap... this driver has caused quite the uproar with its Kipple data and rated Xmas...

Correct. Someone else in AVS actually made custom fit covers for his. I think he’d be up to make another set...

They do look much better. If I didnt have two Crown XLS2000s myself I’d look hard at these. Would have solved my need for a MiniDSP and saved me some cash...... But then I found another pair of decent amps so I’d still need it since I’m gonna run 4 amps bridged to my 4 subs lol..... Also hello madaeel!

Correct. Those subs however are along the SIDE of the recliner rather than directly behind your seat. So it makes a bit of a difference

It replaces this...

Also here is the last project lol...

Yup.... my wife likes vintage looks too. I have a Motorola tubed console from 1959 with AM/FM radio and a turntable.... It doesn't have volume button... its a LOUDNESS button :). I'm working on getting that rehabed (its a stereo + mono sub) and will be bypassing the phono input and setting it up to allow for a alexa/chromecast audio/google assistant device to queue up music plus keep the AM radio. Hopefully we finish all 3 builds at the same time. The 2 Sonotubes are identical copies and not a lot of woodworking needed. He wont be doing any finish work on them besides just a quick black paint coat. Same with the Organ Donor sub. I also have a "rebuild" of my existing nearfield sub but its likely to be done later if at all. And again not super hard to finish as its hidden. Some duratex and its done lol... PSSST.... I listen to dubstep and techno..... I've got 4 12" subs in a nearfield box driven by a Crown XLS2000 bridged..... I'm also running a MiniDSP 2x4 balanced with a 12db Low Shelf Filter starting at 40hz..... I'm already there lol. Once I get all 3 subs built (Organ Donor + Sonotubes), I will be playing Bass I love you, followed by the intro to Edge of Tomorrow, followed by John Wick 1 & 2 in their entirety.... (with the kids and wife elsewhere)

Thanks. I'm looking foward to getting started on it. For now the units been in its final resting place (just stripped down). My wife has already put some knick nacks on it and decorated around it. The only thing so far she wants is for us to firm up the top (which I was going to anyway). Beyond that she was a bit annoyed I apparently undersold its dimensions to her, but honestly it doesnt look out of place, and so far everyone she's asked at our house has commented that it looks just fine where it is and it looks pretty cool. So I'm on the winning side..... until I put the drivers in and then hopefully it is solid enough to not rattle a lot (she's got a lamp on top of it )

I agree. Its quite cool! I also like the anti poke factor Thanks Ricci! My buddy in Evansville is going to help me with the builds. He's the fella who bought those two Chase subs off you about a year ago. When we get these built, I'd hazard a guess you'd be welcome to come see em in person before I take em back to Indy to install them (although you'd be welcome to a demo at my house once they are dialed in, but its a lot farther of a drive) We've already spitballed a bit and potentially adjusted the build a bit in a good way. A struggle I knew I would have would be driver removal. The JBLs are 12.25" including the basket. Since the cutout in the cabinet is only 24" it would make it a PITA to remove drivers if one got blown. We are thinking we just remove the bottom of the cabinet and configure the "shell" to slip over the top of the "new" sub. Then add some furniture inserts to the sides and maybe front so that we can secure the two boxes together. That also would give me more space for the box so we can make sure to brace it well and still get to 6cf so it closely matches the existing sub I've got. Then if I need to get into the box to service a driver its as easy as separating the two boxes. For now the box is in my house in its final resting place so my wife can get a feel for it. It will make its way down to Evansville here in the next month or so to begin its new life...

Chapter 2: The Organ Donor I now faced a dilemma. Each Sonotube contained 2 subs. My other nearfield sub had 4 drivers. I was going to have trouble level matching my rear subs. Deciding to use 4 drivers, I now needed a new design for this back sub. But it needed to be the "right" design first time around. Putting 2 Sonotubes behind my recliner was out of the question. Building a dual opposed box presented layout problems, and resulted in very low WAF. A downward firing fake "hope chest" would be too long for the space. Dual opposed Up/Down also had no WAF. Front/Back dual opposed would likely shake my surrounds and any pictures off the wall. I could go with 2 front firing, 2 downfiring, but that meant really tall legs, which likely wouldn't work. I was stuck. I looked at any sub build I could find, hoping for inspiration. I lost myself in Infinite Baffle, Push/Pull, and all manner of unique layouts. I saw a guitar speaker with 4 front firing 10's. It was ugly as sin, but it wasn't that big. Light shone down from heaven. This was it. 4 drivers front firing, stacked in 2 rows of 2 each, butted up against the wall. It was basically a compact version of my nearfield sub. Whatever I did, it needed high WAF. I don’t have woodworking skills, and good quality wood can get pricey. So I started looking for a pretty "shell" to build my sub inside. I decided to commit a AUDIOPHILE SIN and take a vintage piece of audio equipment and convert it into a sub. With much shame, I looked at antique radios, consoles and all manner of things. Then it happened. I saw an ad for something the seller called a "Reverb" box. I had no idea what it was but it looked pretty, and had 4 10" drivers inside of it and a make/model number of Hammond PR something. Down the Google rabbit hole I went. I finally locked in on "The One". A Hammond PR-40 Tone cabinet. The Hammond PR-40 is meant to connect to a Hammond Organ. It has 2 15's and 2 12's in a 37 ½” high, 31 ½” wide, and 18” deep form factor. Its "just right". Tall enough to put stuff on, and more a rectangle than square. It also isn't much deeper than a Sonotube would have been. I scoured the web for the "right" PR-40. Finding units in Chicago, and Peoria IL, I messaged a local friend to see if he would want to buy any of the parts out of these for the shop he runs. They are tube amp powered after all, and use "ok" vintage drivers. He said he'd be willing to pay about 50 bucks for the parts if they were all there. That put both units at a very good cost, but there would be travel time and gas involved. Do-able, but would require a harder sell than I wanted to do at that time. Life got in the way, and time passed. Being a horrible person [emoji14] (see backstory), I had contacted both sellers for more pictures, so I had their email addresses, however I never actually bought either unit. Finally ready to revisit and move on a unit, I messaged my friend to see if he still would buy the parts out of them, and he surprises me. "Sorry Dan, not interested….." My heart sank. "Because I picked one up last week. You interested in the cabinet?" My breath caught in my chest, I messaged back "When can I see it?" "I'm eating a (local Mexican place). How about after?" "Done." I meet him at his storage unit, and there she is. A PRISTINE PR-40 in gorgeous walnut, the finish I needed to match our existing darker mahogany/espresso furniture. It was all still in one piece, tube amps and all. Forgive me Father for I have sinned.... For 25 bucks, I took the cabinet, and he took the internals. It came home with me yesterday. It cleaned it up very well, and I'm now starting to move onto the build I've dubbed the "ORGAN DONOR" [emoji14]. I will be posting a TON of pictures later tonight (after I go to confessional ;):D), but suffice it to say, this unit is put together REMARKABLY WELL, and it's all Modular. The top came off with 4 screws, the front grill is attached with screws, making my job cutting pieces out extremely easy. One thing I didn't know but is ICING on the cake, is that the grill fabric uses individual strands of wire in it. You cant see it, but its there. Why do I care? Well I've got 3 dogs, a cat, and 2 kids. So it should significantly help deter them from poking drivers, and the grill fabric can handle some poking without needing replaced. The "only" flaw is that the top grill fabric has a tear, however my friend has a tub of similar older grill fabric that I can use, and he thinks he's got a perfect match for the front grill fabric. Some pictures. First set of drivers. I haven’t yet taken one of all of them together. Here is the Hammon PR-20 When I first laid eyes on her. After some cleanup Some other pictures of the unit. Even the top had a driver in it. The grill came off with 4 screws and cleaned up beautiful 3/4th used throughout. Very good construction. There is a very nice offset for the drivers. Need to do some thinking here. The area I need to think about from the front. Top needs a small amount of work. Just look at that detail in the grill cloth! Here are some rough ideas of what I’m planning (subject to change and updating at all times). I'm basically building a box inside whats there. The sides, top/bottom will be out of 1/2. The front and rear will be out of 3/4. The drivers will NOT have a double baffle. I plan to cutout "most" of the existing front baffle, and use the remaining outline as a "spacer" so its kinda like I have a double baffle. This will ensure the drivers have MORE than enough breathing room. The "ONLY" thing I am thinking is how easy/possible it will be to remove the 12's if I need to get acces to them. I may space them closer together, or perhaps install the front baffle in two pieces, with the cut going horizontal down the middle. That would let me unscrew, pull it forward and rotate it back and then get to the drivers.... Any thoughts appreciated

Foreword: I'm a guy who likes to go into detail. The devil and the beauty is in the details, small and large. The backstory in my mind is always important as it sets the stage for what's to come and to provide insight into why certain choices were made. This thread will, like all my others, be a slow burn. My builds are intentional. They progress slowly, after much internal angst and debate, complicated by my insane need to account for all variables, and over-complicate things :). Chapter 1: The Quest is born, and a Champion emerges from the forge! The Quest I fit in well here. I love BASS. I've been to a awesome theater in Chicago twice and each time I left wishing I could get 1/10th the sound hes getting. Then I made the mistake of visiting "The Savoy", where I confirmed the reality lived up to the hype. It didn’t help. On my bucket list is visiting Luke, and attending some of the other GTG's that happen out Iowa/MN way. All these guys have SPECTACULAR dedicated theaters. I dont. I console myself with the fact that we are in the top 1% of basshead crazy, but those guys I mentioned above…. They are the 1%, OF THE 1%. My wife is not a Basshead. If you look at the threads I've posted over the years, you will see I've thrown just about EVERY idea at the wall trying to emulate most of you guys. None stuck………. In late October of 2017, we visited my good friend in Iowa. He's a fellow bass nut, and we get along great. He was using 3 SVS cylinder subs with his JTR Triple 8's. While visiting my wife commented that she LIKED (or could tolerate more) the SVS cylinders. Wasting no time, I got her to agree to allow me to copy his layout, and keep the nearfield sub that is hidden behind our sectional. In return I had to sell my UM18 first, and self-fund the build. A deal was made. The QUEST HAD BEGUN! A CHAMPION IS FORGED I had acquired 2 backup Infinity's for my nearfield sub. I researched the SVS PC-12NSD to get its dimensions and port tuning. I then attempted to emulate it in WinISD using the Infinity 1260/1262. The Infinity modeled well in a 16" in diameter 32" tall Sonotube ported to about 19 Hz. Port velocity was in check, with decent SPL. The ports fit, barely, but it would work. . All that was left was to buy another driver. Unfortunately for me, I was BEYOND LATE to the Infinity party. The drivers were long since out of stock, so I had to find one on the interwebz. They showed up on eBay, but they were around 100 bucks or more after shipping. I decided to keep waiting. I started looking for other options and remembered the JBL CS1214. The ONLY issue was, after throwing it into WinISD, the drivers only modeled close in a SEALED box. SPL response was ALMOST identical with the JBL having more power handling. In a ported box the JBL looked HORRIBLE. It needed a box that was 2x the size of the one for the Infinity. So I pushed it aside and kept looking for Infinity drivers waiting for a bargain. All your Subz belong to us! It's now a week or two before Black Friday 2017. My UM18 had sold, and I was sitting on money waiting for the right Infinity to buy. I had my parts list ready to buy for the ported Sonotubes, but was waiting till I had my last sub in hand. Someone posted the JBL CX1200 was on sale for 45 bucks at BestBuy on Black Friday. The T/S parameters were identical to the CS1214. Knowing the CX1200 was the "updated" CS1214, I wondered what the CS1214 was going for now. A quick google search turned up the fact that Sonic Electronix had them on closeout for 25 DOLLARS….. INCLUDING SHIPPING!!!!!!!!!!!!! Consulting WinISD showed that a dual opposed 1214 build would make things simpler, and not lose too much SPL wise. I could ignore worries about port chuffing, I could add a shelf filter to boost response. This became a very viable option. It helped that one CS1214 wasn't too much more than the cost of the ports for each build. And they were NEW! I am a horrible person :)[emoji33]:p. Ryan will openly tell you this. Owning that fact, I told no one but my closest friends the deal I'd found, wanting to keep it all to myself. Like Gollum with the one ring. Mine, my own…. My precioussssssss The deal I was getting started to consume me. I started with 6 drivers in my cart. This was the minimum I needed to finish 3 DO Sonotubes. The JBL's and Infinity's would work together, so no need to go overboard ...................……..But I got sub drunk. 6 became 8, so I'd have 2 extras. Consumed by greed, 8 became 12 (so I could replace the 1260's and be using all JBLs). My cart suddenly showed 12 items. Then I did the unthinkable. My finger of its own accord moved before my brain even registered. "Submit" Looking at my invoice, I felt dirty. I pictured the face of the stock boy readying my order, seeing what I'd bought, and then how little it had cost me. His face turning to a grimace seeing their shipping costs. After shipping, I doubt they made a dime I thought that was the end. I was wrong. A few days pass and I am still consumed by the need to buy more of these drivers. It was only compounded by my fear I didn't have enough extras. To the Internet! By now, word of the deal had spread and Sonic Electronix was sold out (I'd like to think because I bought them out [emoji3]). That left Amazon, where they were 65 bucks new, no longer a screaming deal. I monitored the site, and a day later two drivers showed in their "Amazon Warehouse Deals" (I think thats what its called). These were Amazon returns that still worked but had damage to the packaging, or the person just didn’t want them. 32 bucks a pop. I could stomach that. Ordered. They were mine. My total was now up to 14 subs [emoji33]. But the beast inside me was not yet appeased. I stumbled across a post from a buddy saying he had 2 drivers from testing, in factory boxes, he was selling. The post was stale, but I never saw any follow-up. I was going to be in Chicago for something else, and may as well add 2 more subs to my collection. A few weeks later the deal was done and I was on my way home with an additional 2. My bloodlust ended. With 16 drivers, there was no more room at the inn. I had already moved 8 of them to a friend's house for him to help me build the Sonotubes. That still left me with 8 at the house. It was time to start actually getting ready to build something [emoji33]. P.S. Here is a my floor plan showing sub locations.