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Kvalsvoll

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Everything posted by Kvalsvoll

  1. Kvalsvoll

    Bulding the Room2 listening room

    New article about power requirements: https://www.kvalsvoll.com/blog/2018/12/02/how-much-power-do-i-need/ Info on power requirements for active or bass-managed systems is interesting - reducing the bandwidth does not reduce peak power requirements.
  2. Kvalsvoll

    Bulding the Room2 listening room

    I have posted about the new Room2 in the bass punch threshold thread, and announced that I would start a thread on the building of this room. I plan to present a complete article describing what the acoustic improvements do for the sound, from start to finish, and I also have measurements form all stages of the build process. Here is how the room looked initially, after removing subwoofers and audiophile mains, and some furniture, including the table, which will be replaced: Preview of the process:
  3. Doing a proper bass-eq takes time and effort, and as you do more of them you start to notice that experience is nice to have. Yes, you need to listen, and since a movie is quite long, with lots of scenes and sound effects, this will be a time-consuming process if you want to be sure you get the best possible result within constraints given by you skills and the soundtrack you have. But we only watch the movie once - usually. Kind of like how GOT (a person living in Norway) put it about skiing - the conditions really does not matter when climbing and skiing a mountain, because you only ski it once. It is what it is, that one time. If it was perfect, well, good, but if it was icy and crusty, or the bass in the movie was less than perfect in some scenes, that is what we had. But we do not have to re-live it over and over again. This also means there is a limit to how much effort you want to put into fixing someone else's mistakes on a movie. So I usually end up picking a couple scenes, and do beq on lcr+lfe.
  4. I see your point where individual bass-eq for all channels including surround is the ultimate solution, and can in some cases be a significant improvement, as when surround effects that has wide frequency range are not mixed in to the lfe channel, and those surround channels are filtered somewhere in the process. But still, I claim most of the performance gain with bass-eq can be had with beq on the bass-managed signal, which is the only practical solution for most people. Then you miss out the correct correction for surround - as well as lcr - because the adjustments you make are weighted +10dB hot on the lfe channel, giving too little boost on lcr+sr. In a world where even very, VERY few dedicated enthusiasts knows what bass-eq means, there is a huge potential for improvement that will be possible on most serious systems, because they all have dsp on the bass-system, which can be used to implement BEQ that gives 80-90% of the improvement. Compared to no BEQ, there is a huge improvement still, and the dedicated channels BEQ will only be a small step above that. 40hz or 50hz for surrounds is more like the same, when talking about the real thing, which means full frequency range - full capacity.
  5. It is not strange that something with +60dB ulf boost on surround channels looks odd, because this is very likely mostly noise. Keep in mind that no studio or cinema can reproduce low frequencies on the surround channels, whatever is there below around 50hz was never part of the sound design. The most important to fix is lfe and lcr, that is where the big difference lies.
  6. Kvalsvoll

    The Bass EQ for Movies Thread

    @3ll3d00d, I do follow and appreciate the excellent work you have done on the beqdesigner. Especially since it is obvious now that the best we can hope for is movie sound that responds well to bass-eq, there will never be a situation where you can assume the sound is perfect from the provider. I also follow, or at least make an attempt to see what is going on in the soundbar-forum thread.
  7. Kvalsvoll

    The Bass EQ for Movies Thread

    Would it not be great if you could bring back the lost bass in you favourite movies? Well, perhaps you can. By applying equalization customized for each movie during playback, it is possible to dig out some of the low bass lost due to filtering and processing in the studio. Why Bass EQ How to Bass EQ How to recognize good candidates for Bass EQ and what to fix How to submit Movies with Bass EQ Movies improving with Bass EQ This is the list of movies that can be improved by applying Bass EQ: A Space Odyssey Alien Aliens Alien3 Avatar Avengers Avengers: Age of Ultron Battleship Bølgen (The Wave) Ender's Game Eyes Wide Shut Full Metal Jacket Godzilla Gravity Guardians of the Galaxy Iron Man Iron Man 2 Iron Man 3 Man of Steel Oblivion Pacific Rim Scott Pilgrim vs the World Shining Star Wars: The Force Awakens Super 8 The Matrix The Matrix Reloaded Thor Thor: The Dark World Transformers Transformers:Revenge of the Fallen Transformers:Dark of the Moon Transformers:Age of Extinction coming soon: Master & Commander BluRay Tron:Legacy Batman Begins The Dark Knight Fight Club Star Wars: The Phantom Menace Star Wars: Attack of the Clones Saving Private Ryan Wreck-It Ralph Top Gun Alien Resurrection The No Hope Movies Some movies can not be improved: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey Update sep 16 2014: Changed Bass EQ implementation and description method, updated movie entries. Update jan 11 2015: Filter parameters for early entries updated to match new MiniDSP implementation.
  8. Kvalsvoll

    The Bass EQ for Movies Thread

    Apply gain -10dB before filtering, that should leave enough headroom. After applying all filters, you can fix the gain (+10dB), and perhaps give a warning if clipping occurs. But remember that for dsp processing during playback there may be more headroom available, if the dsp is located after master volume in the signal chain.
  9. Kvalsvoll

    The Bass EQ for Movies Thread

    I may be the only one trying to run beqdesigner on linux, so it's like you did this for me, and I feel obliged to test it. I will see if I get the motivation to give it another try, requires some effort to upgrade to the right version of everything, including the right python version. I will report back when I have tried it, and thanks.
  10. Kvalsvoll

    The Bass EQ for Movies Thread

    Kodi uses alsa on my machine, and this dsp can use alsa. But it will not work for movies, because audio is sent to hdmi directly as passthrough, for external decode in the av processor. It would be possible to configure to allow software processing if the movie audio is re-encoded to pcm, but then you still would need to extract, decode, encode and re-mux. Options here are severely limited due to the proprietary formats of audio in movies. Which leaves processing post-bm in the bass-system dsp is the best option for quick and reasonable quality bass-eq. This also eliminates problems with clipping.
  11. Kvalsvoll

    The Bass EQ for Movies Thread

    There is no dsp available on the computer. But that is possible to fix, this is a linux machine running ubuntu and kodi, it would be difficult to implement at the time it was built, but there may be options available now. If filtering is done real-time during playback there is no need to do any processing on the soundtrack. This does however require some sort of analysis to ensure no clipping.
  12. Kvalsvoll

    The Bass EQ for Movies Thread

    @SME, the graph files would be used by those who do not have the .mkv file, and thus have no intention of doing eq on individual channels. Or by someone like me, when I just want to watch a movie using the bass-system dsp to do a simpler bass-eq, not wanting to spend hours to do the remaster process. For this, the bass-managed graph will do just fine, and when applying proper eq in dsp on the bass-system there will not be problems with internal clipping. @3ll3d00d, ffmpeg can do the necessary signal processing, filters are available. I just took a brief look into what is in there, and I believe ffmpeg also can handle the remux. The process of applying the filters to the .mkv should be automated, so that you run this as a command after creating all filters and adjustments. This will take some time, because all channels must be extracted, processed and then put together into one new track, at full sample rate, which is then at last remuxed into the original .mkv so that you end up with an additional bass-eq track. Using flac encoding is a good idea here, saves space and bandwidth. This can be done.
  13. Kvalsvoll

    The Bass EQ for Movies Thread

    @3ll3d00d, signal processing and remux would require some effort. First, all tracks must be extracted at original sample rate, then apply signal processing for the filters, and finish by muxing the new beq remaster track together with the original .mkv. Extract and remux is not difficult, you already use ffmpeg to extract, perhaps look at mkvtoolnix for the remux. Signal processing I am not sure of, would start to look at ffmpeg to see what functionality is available, also search for open-source projects. Graph files of movies would be very beneficial for most users, as they will not have access to the movie as a .mkv file, but could still use the beqdesigner if graph files are available. This also prevent problems with copyright issues, which would be an issue if it was necessary to make the sound track file available. Lots of movies have already been analyzed, and if the graphs were accessible in some kind of library, people could find them there, and use beqdesigner with no need to extract audio files.
  14. Kvalsvoll

    The Bass EQ for Movies Thread

    One advice on bass-eq: Bass-eq is not about correcting the frequency response of a movie sound track so that the spectral distribution becomes flat. Bass-eq is about lifting up the filtered ulf so that the level is restored back to what it was before filtering. This can only be done by guessing how the spectrum should look like, and apply appropriate filters. There will be peaks and dips and deviations from a flat curve, depends on what sounds are present in the sound track, and how they are made. So a bass-eq correction should not look like the eq one could do on a bass-system, where peaks are cut down and frequency ranges with too high or too low level is corrected. Though on some movies there can be improvements by cutting a few dB in the 30-40hz range, and to decide what works best, you have to listen to it and correct accordingly. ( @SME also speaks about this in his post above.)
  15. Kvalsvoll

    The Bass EQ for Movies Thread

    @SME, the interest for bass-eq is very, very low considering the huge impact on sound experience. One reason for that is that very few people actually has a sound system capable of reproducing full range with decent capacity and quality. One purpose of this thread was to create awareness, so that the producers deliver better, unfiltered sound in their movies. No bass-eq necessary. Only a few movies deliver that, even today it is rare to see a new release with full frequency range intact. The reason why is that they are clueless - they have no idea that anything is missing in their sound track. No producer would allow a filtered movie to be released if they knew their product could deliver a much better and more involving experience. Most people play the bd and have no option to change the sound track, the only option is to use eq in a dsp somewhere in the chain, and since all decent bass systems has a dsp, it is convenient to implement bass-eq on the bass-system. The drawback is that you can not do individual filtering of the channels. But compared to no bass-eq, this is a good and very useable alternative. I prefer to do individual corrections, because it is better, @maxmercy is very clear on this, he is the true bass-eq purist among us.
  16. Kvalsvoll

    The Bass EQ for Movies Thread

    Unchecked the mono-button, and it works, great. Still unable to Add signal, but that is not really necessary now. Some cosmetics - graph display gets corrupted by legend, too few colors on graph signals. Workflow - how you use the app - is very important, so that users easily understand how to use it. Now you must know that you start with Tools - Extract. When you know that, the rest is quite intuitive. Functionality - nest step could be to implement signal processing to apply the filters to the sound track. Then re-mux the beq filtered back into the .mkv. Most people will use hardware dsp on the bass system, so this would be of no use. And most people do not have access to the movie as a file, which effectively prevents them from using this app in the first place. This is something that this app obviously can not solve.
  17. Kvalsvoll

    The Bass EQ for Movies Thread

    Seems to work now, but I do not see the individual 8 signals. Extract Audio, then Create Signals, and I get a graph with peak and avg. I can then create filters, and the graph shows filtered response. As it is now, this is a great tool for creating beq for dsp. And it helps creating a remastered sound track because it is much faster and easier to find the right filters.
  18. Kvalsvoll

    The Bass EQ for Movies Thread

    Does not run on my system, so I test it on windows instead, no problem. Focus on improving functionality of the beqdesigner instead of trying to support running on a system that very few actually has. It is not that the app can not run on ubuntu linux, it has to do with the effort that is needed to make it work. Now, there is a problem with my windows app - add signal does not work, the graph does not show all signals, and the last release does not create the xys_fl, .., signals. Extract audio works and creates a .wav, but this wav can not be loaded afterwards.
  19. Kvalsvoll

    The Bass EQ for Movies Thread

    Excellent, @3ll3d00d, will try this now.
  20. Kvalsvoll

    The Bass EQ for Movies Thread

    Does not run on linux - on my system, for now. Which means there is some work to get it up and running, perhaps I will look into it later. Because the idea of this app is great, it can actually end up as a completely automated bass-eq for any movie at click of a button.
  21. Kvalsvoll

    The Bass EQ for Movies Thread

    This is excellent, of course I need to test it. But before I waste my time - does it work on linux, should work if ffmpeg is the engine for signal processing, and the ui is python/qt. The media computer is linux, it is just more convenient to use that one.
  22. Kvalsvoll

    Paradigm Persona Sub

    Reading about this, and realize I actually can comment, because i do not sell anything to the u.s. - so, I look for price and speccs. Found a price: USD6500? Is that correct? Good, a manufacturer must also be able to make a living out of this, and compared to various other hifi products, I don't see anything wrong. Speccs are more difficult to find. On the manufacturer site I can not find any specifications for output capacity, and from the specification for frequency response it rolls of around 19Hz. Some of the speccs do not make sense - response at 30 degrees off-axis for a small sub? Really? - and instead of specifying voice coil length, would it not make sense to list the xmax instead? 6x 8" is a little more than a 18", then factor in that the 18" will most likely have longer usable excursion, and you have a reasonable estimate for output capacity by looking at typical 18" sealed designs listed here on data-bass.
  23. Alien - Covenant: Anyone measured this? Could not find any graph. Just watched it, sounded quite good to me, did not feel like much was missing in the low end. In my opinion, it does not need BEQ. Sound aside, it is note a very optimistic film. Would not recommend it as a good way to pass time while on your first journey to March. If you do, since such a trip takes quite some time, you can watch the whole Alien series, then top it off with Prometheus and Covenant.
  24. Kvalsvoll

    The Bass EQ for Movies Thread

    It is the same. Most sci-fi films use some kind of alternative set of laws for physics. Allows for sound in space, fast travel - without all this, it would not be entertaining. We accept that, and enjoy the adventure in a fiction world.
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