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Kvalsvoll

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Kvalsvoll last won the day on September 6

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About Kvalsvoll

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  1. Bulding the Room2 listening room

    @SME, I buy all music I know I want to hear often, everything on local disks is the only way to go. In a world where companies sees shorter lifetimes, you never know when your streaming service shuts down, and all the music is gone. Why doesn't Bandcamp work? At least you can buy and download? Tidal requires a Win pc, and it is only a coincidence that i have one in Room2 - I bought a small, white laptop because I wanted a white one, and later realize it is not possible to get linux on it. Chesky has good sound, I have some if it. I also see you like Infected Mushroom - though that is something quite different. If you have any more listening impressions, I am reading.
  2. Bulding the Room2 listening room

    NEW playlist: The Demo Tracks - Advanced: Moving into more advanced territory, with music that requires more both from you as a listener and your sound system. https://tidal.com/playlist/4337c9a0-0405-48db-94ac-7dfd5fe6e46c # Title Artist Album Time 1 Poppkorn Jøkleba Jøkleba! / Nu Jøk? 3:20 2 Shopenhauer Jøkleba Jøkleba! / Nu Jøk? 3:47 3 All Through the Night Emancipator Safe In the Steep Cliffs 4:33 4 Rattlesnakes Emancipator Safe In the Steep Cliffs 4:10 5 Kleine Dreigroschenmusik (Arr. for Chamber Ensemble) - VII. Cannon Song: Charleston-Tempo Chicago Pro Musica Medinah Sessions 2:20 6 Shamanimal (Live at Satellit Café) Hadouk Trio Utopies 7:10 7 The Golden Striker The Modern Jazz Quartet No Sun In Venice 3:41 8 Vals (En Vivo) Puente Celeste En Vivo en Cafe Vinilo 3:56 9 Buey (En Vivo) Puente Celeste En Vivo en Cafe Vinilo 7:58 10 Taquito Militar La Segunda Será Una Noche 3:35 11 La Roca La Segunda Será Una Noche 5:06 12 Ascent Lyle Mays Lyle Mays 6:59 13 Flowmotion Vestbo Trio Flowmotion 4:19 14 I Love Paris (Live) The Hot Sardines Live At Joe's Pub 5:17 15 Rainfall Daniel Herskedal Slow Eastbound Train 3:37 16 There Are Three Things You Cannot Hide Love Smoke and a Man Riding on a Camel Daniel Herskedal The Roc 5:01 17 Pink Froid Infected Mushroom Converting Vegetarians II 7:40 18 We the Dub Yore Salmonella Dub Dub for Straights (1993 Sessions) 3:44 19 Dirt Bikes And Street Vendors The Flashbulb Soundtrack to a Vacant Life 1:55 20 Swollen Trees The Flashbulb Soundtrack to a Vacant Life 2:28 21 Rose Hierarchy The Flashbulb Nothing Is Real
  3. Bulding the Room2 listening room

    Tidal playlist "The Demo Tracks Part 1": Description Assorted demo tracks, put together from the collection built while listening to Tidal in the Kvålsvoll Design Room2. This is the "popular" list - music which is easy to like. Some of these tracks are often played in showrooms and exhibitions. This is not a selection of productions with exceptional technical qualities, rather examples of diversity and variation both musically and in sound style. Some have obvious flaws - if your sound system is good, it will still present the music. Tracks on playlist 1 How It Feels (Album Version) Sophie Zelmani 2 Ticket To The World Ayo 3 Cocaine Eric Clapton 4 Tin Pan Alley (AKA Roughest Place in Town) Stevie Ray Vaughan & Double Trouble 5 Summertime (Alternate Take) Janis Joplin 6 Trampled Underfoot Vanessa Fernandez 7 When the Levee Breaks Vanessa Fernandez 8 Here I Am Now Steve Gadd 9 Be Brave My Brightest Diamond 10 Train Song Holly Cole 11 Little Things India.Arie 12 Us and Them Anne Bisson 13 I Miss My Love Anne Bisson 14 Island On An Endless Plane The Flashbulb 15 Four Women Malia 16 As Time Goes By Viktoria Tolstoy 17 Get Lucky Daft Punk 18 Royals Lorde 19 Goodbye Yellow Brick Road (Live in Atlanta) Sara Bareilles 20 September in Montreal Anne Bisson 21 Stay Yello 22 Everything I Need (Album Version) Keb'Mo' 23 Le vent souffle encore Vincent Bélanger, Anne Bisson
  4. Bulding the Room2 listening room

    @SME - what music do you like, perhaps you have some examples from your own collection? I listened to the tracks you describe, to try to get a better understanding of what you mean. First, in the Moderate Cinema, then in Room2. Paying attention to the properties you describe. What I do notice is that the highs has a characteristic sound - the tonality is colored. like the frequency response at higher freqs has large deviations, and the level is a little loud. I listened to several Flashbulb albums, and find that they all have this sound to them, more or less. I certainly do not think you experience this because your system has some fault, it is likely more neutral than any "high-end" system tuned by matching cables. Measurements don't tell the whole story, they are difficult to interpret an so on it goes, but a mic and rew is actually the most powerful tool we have, and used properly it results in more neutral sound, and usually better sound. And yes - the 2 systems here sound different, I would say very different - even though a simple frequency response chart shows quite similar curves. I did not find the trumpet to be harsh or strange. Now I listened at -30dB - it is very late, but tonal character tends to be quite similar regardless of volume, it just gets louder when you turn it up. And eventually it gets too loud - does not matter much how clean it sounds, when the ears overload. Some other Flashbulb albums (www.bandcamp.com if they are not on tidal): Reunion: Dynamic and powerful sound. Try "God Is Speaking". Kirlian Selections: Quite similar in sound, but perhaps more diverse and melodic. Try "Kirlian Selections III" - guitar quite close, violin to the left, deeper and further away. Soundtrack to a vacant life: Rougher, less refined sound, note full frequency range. Try "Forbidden tracks". But for judging sound quality, this may not be the best choice of music, especially if you do not know the music from before. Something like Vanessa Fernandez - Use Me has better overall sound quality, and there are less strange sounds and instruments that we really can not know how is supposed to sound. Flashbulb is because I like the music, and also the characteristic sound - it is not supposed to sound like Vanessa Fernandez.. Did you see the Tidal playlists I published? Perhaps I could post the list in text format, so that it is possible to see without using Tidal.
  5. Maximum horn compression ratio?

    Depends on the driver and the horn design. Driver diaphragm will limit the load it can handle, shape of the horn close to the driver affects how large pressure and flow creates distortion. Huge motor force is good in a horn, and - as you experience - you end up with larger ratios. The problem is not so much the high velocity at the throat, because it is large pressure gradients - pressure changing rapidly - together with large velocity that creates problems first. This causes flow separation and then turbulence, which means distortion, noise and efficiency lost. Too high pressure at the throat causes nonlinearities due to the nonlinear properties of air. Model it, simulate, and look at the numbers.
  6. Reading this (above) makes me happy. SME builds, measures, makes adjustments, attention to details that surely can not make any difference - but it does. Then he - SME - describes the amazing sound, well, what does he know that all the others don't.. And the proof is in hearing and experiencing yourself. As lowerFE did. When you focus on the parts that are important for sound quality, and fix it, you actually get results that matters.
  7. Replacement AVR / processor

    @SME , this discourse kind of crossed the OT border somewhere, and should probably be moved to another thread.. I was going to say you are wrong, but I actually have to say I mostly agree. When I got back into audio some years ago, I found that people could not set up the system properly to get a good integration, and this severely compromises sound quality, because the timing in the most important frequency range goes bad. But it is not extremely difficult to get it a reasonably good result, at least so it sounds better than main speakers alone. But it requires much more than the casual buyer can do, because you need to measure. When you have the measurement capability, it is possible to achieve predictable results using a manageable set of rules. Especially for 2-ch, the systems often end up with a very low crossover, because that sounds better. And does sound better, if you are not able to set the delay on the mains properly.
  8. Replacement AVR / processor

    @SME, the typical 2-ch system actually lack basic and necessary functionality, such as delay on main speakers. This is the case for most 2-ch preamplifiers, including those with dedicated subwoofer outputs, even the digital ones. The most sophisticated may have some sort of low pass filter on the sub output, usually fixed slope and cut off frequency. And if the system has a AV-processor/AVR, they usually bypass all processing for 2-ch listening, in "direct" or "pure" mode. This efficiently disables all calibration settings for bass system integration - no delay, no filter on the mains. Alternatively, a dedicated 2-ch preamp is installed - all necessary functionality is lost. So, it is no wonder the typical 2-ch system sounds better with subwoofers disabled. Even if they know how to set this up properly, it is not possible because the playback chain lacks necessary functionality. Of relevance for this thread: Note that the amplifier test was done using a quite ordinary AVR as processor/DAC for playback, and no one has been able to detect any audible difference from the original to the sample that was passed through the playback-recorder loop 4x times. A reasonably good AVR, used correctly, does not have any "sound" at all, it is completely transparent. All this is caused by bad advice given from manufacturers and dealers who want to sell more equipment and does not understand how to set up a sound system properly.
  9. Replacement AVR / processor

    No, it is not that simple. The delay of the horn itself depends on the tuning and type of horn. Front loaded, back loaded, size of compression chamber, tuning. And delay is frequency dependent, though less so for a horn than a typical ported box. Then room acoustics come to play, as for any type of subwoofer, adding delay that is also frequency dependent , and can be several 10's of milliseconds. So the actual delay you need on the L R depends on the crossover frequency, the horns in use, and room acoustics and placement. (And this is before entering the more advanced configurations, which can include multiple subwoofers set up to solve problems that typically occurs in small, closed spaces).
  10. Replacement AVR / processor

    Thanks for the tip, I assumed they were all limited to around 20ms. This can be a problem with horns, I have often reached this delay limit when experimenting with different calibrations. I have only measured Denon/Marantz units, sub output is fine for -12dB trim and 0dB master, anything higher and it will clip.
  11. Bulding the Room2 listening room

    New functionality in REW - clarity plot. Example from current system in Room2 - F2 main speakers + 2x V80 and 2x V6030 bass system.
  12. Bulding the Room2 listening room

    Just wanted to mention a side-effect of having a true full-range system, something the typical data-bass reader can relate to; You sit down in the carefully located listening chair, put on some quite ordinary music - jazz with vocal, acoustic instruments, perhaps some classical with a small string quartet ensemble. Sounds nice, the ears warm up a little, and you increase the volume slightly, usually end up keeping it at 0dB. Then - suddenly, out of nowhere, this string quartet makes the whole world kind of shift as a very powerful pulse of ulf noise makes your heart stop. You don't really hear it, you feel the air blast and the movement . Like in a well-done action movie - except that in the movie, it is expected, appropriate and part of what makes the experience better - and you are don't get scared. It is obvious that not only movie production studios lack low frequency reproduction capability, music studios have the same limitations, and they don't need it either for the string quartet. Except when someone stomps the floor, or touches the microphone housing, and a microphone picks up this and creates an earthquake on the sound track. If the recording is processed full-range, and no one checks for sub-20hz noise using a spectrum analyzer, this will go unnoticed. Until I play it on my system. At 0dB. Lots of recordings have ulf noise that is audible, and some have these occasional potential heart-attack inducing monster transients.
  13. Bulding the Room2 listening room

    Good, I assume it works, then. If you don't have Tidal, you can still see the tracks, and find the music elsewhere. I will create more playlists, with more narrow selections for the experts. A sub-bass list should be suitable for data-bass audience.
  14. Bulding the Room2 listening room

    Created a playlist in Tidal: https://tidal.com/playlist/c52e3fda-6905-49e4-9509-930e706105da Well, does it work? Does the playlist show up, and can you play from it?
  15. Bulding the Room2 listening room

    I often listen to music from the old days, and I still rediscover albums I once enjoyed, decades ago. Though I have no exact memory of the sound back then, I do realize it sounds very different on the new systems. But is it better, is it a better experience? The difference is so huge, that the exact memory of the acoustic event is not needed. Dynamics is far better, bass is far better, soundstage and clarity and insight into the recording is in a different league. How can I know? Because I can hear details and sounds that i did not know was there, differences between productions, realism. But still, I also remember certain aspects of the sound from back then, that may actually have been better. The sound was warmer, had more body and fullness in the lower midrange, vocal was softer. It certainly would be interesting to be able to compare, to be able to hear if this is real, or just something that I have created in my own imagination. I have a few friends which have heard both - the old, and now the new sound. They tend to conclude that the new sound is so much better, it is like a different game. And they are not just being polite, I know them too well, they would tell me right away if what they hear does not please. The old systems also did not get quite the same type of comments and interest, so there is definitely something going on. The difference is speakers and acoustics. Playback and electronics have improved, but that part was quite good, even though audible differences surely exist between the digital computer playback compared to the old vinyl rig. This is also possible to compare directly, as I have made vinyl rips using the exact same rig, so the old vinyl can be played, or compared to a digital version - the vinyl sounds great, but this is not where the new sound comes from, it sounds quite similar. It all ends up as differences in decay and reflection patterns - the new sound has much faster decay with a very dead initial gap, more later reflections that create life. This is of course not magic, it is a result of the radiation pattern of the speakers and room acoustics. A smoother sound is the result of more early reflections. Can this be desired, in some situations? It smooths things out, masks a little bit, so the brain can fill in what is missing, and create something that was never there on the recording.
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