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Showing content with the highest reputation since 10/14/2017 in all areas

  1. 7 points
    Update to powering the RF 19's. The 8 sealed in the HT will now be getting a pair of SP2-12000's. Each 6k module power 2 1ohm T3S1-19 drivers in series in a dual opposed sealed cab. This switch is mostly because the SP amps have less fan noise than the K20's. Also they have slightly better extension below 10Hz. The K20's are going to the band spot to power the MAUL's. Fan noise doesn't matter there. Each MAUL has 4 T3S1-19's wired in series for a 4ohm nominal load and will see a whole bridged K20. Yay headroom... Got power?
  2. 6 points
    I've got a couple of pro woofers on hand for 2018 so far. I need to do some more testing with the 21DS115-4, but I also have a JBL 2269H 18 and 2 18Sound 21's the 21NLW9601 and 21ID. I also have a couple of vented pro subs I didn't get to in 2017. Even more JTR Speakers testing is on the schedule for when spring gets here.
  3. 5 points
    I vote that we let users add graphs, content, build plans, etc. 1 guy can only produce so much content. As far as social media I'll let you guys in on a secret. I've never been active on any form of social media. I don't plan to be either. From what I recall Kyle isn't either. That's why we don't have any of that for DB! Neither one of us wants to deal with it!
  4. 4 points
    I looked at the sim and it is quite close below 80Hz. This one should have less efficiency and less output above 40Hz on paper. It should have a bit more output near tuning. I'd say the original sims as being the slightly bit louder cab overall for music apps or live sound (kick drum, percussion fundamentals, most of the content being above 40Hz etc.). I've found over the years I like smoother responding wider bandwidth systems vs systems optimized for more sensitivity over a narrower band of operation. This is part of the reason I decided not to do a straight slot. I wanted extra upper bass output and extension well beyond 100Hz as part of the design goal. Often times you'll see guys using subs for 30-70Hz and another set of kick bins for 70-140Hz or whatever. Usually due to sub bins with degraded upper range behavior or just not enough output. I'm not a fan of that approach. I'd much rather have one cab that can handle everything. I think the sim you proposed would be fine. I tried to get the top end as extended as possible on this one. Another reason I didn't choose a large straight slot was to more fully enclose the drivers inside the cab. Most of the time I notice non harmonic mechanical and operational noises before HD gets to be offensive. The acoustic roll off of the slot above 100Hz should help lower HD a bit, but with the driver cone edge only 10" from the end of a large slot with line of sight to the outside world I'd expect there to be more operational noise leakage, though HR doesn't show too much of a difference. I'd like to see that tested actually. Also the drivers would be a little more susceptible to rain or a drink spill, but either arrangement is safer than a direct radiator cab! I didn't go with a push pull driver arrangement due to the minimum clearances needed for the drivers (10.5" driver depth + a large dustcap and +40mm excursion worst case scenario minus some for the baffle thicknesses and depth to the dustcap below the frame plane) and the fact that most high excursion sub drivers make quite a racket from the motor and suspension when pushed hard. Even more of a reason was the uneven loading it would present on the drivers. It would be much more involved and difficult to design the cab to evenly load the drivers with one inverted. Not impossible but it would complicate things. I'd give a rough guess that there would be about a 25-30L difference in the vented air volumes seen by the drivers. Tuning would be slightly different unless compensated for and the throat area would be a concern. I know this has been done in plenty of cabs before but I don't know if I trust it with the kinds of pressures that can be developed inside something like these. I didn't think the potential lowered even order distortion outweighed the concerns with uneven loading and possible mechanical noise from the inverted driver motor. The forces inside these can be pretty ridiculous. The force cancelling works really well on it. It's not like the drivers are 90deg rotated from each other or even 45deg. It's only a 12deg offset and it's a 250+ lb sub. In use the cab has no perceptible rocking from the driver operation. That small amount of offset from exact opposition plus the sheer size and mass just doesn't add up to any real rocking forces fore and aft. Technically I'd guess a perfect driver opposition would measure a bit lower with an accelerometer but in practice it worked like expected and it's a complete non issue. Regular old panel vibration and bracing is a much bigger concern. The Skhorn has been quite good as far as that is concerned when compared with most other large cabs, but this is always a battle on big subs with tons of output. About Edge and directivity. Keep in mind that the math is simplified and goes back to the point source mic placement method. If the radiating points are spread on one sub and focused on another you can never truly get the same mic distance from the two. In practice there is a very large area that one is trying to cover usually inside of a room with boundaries. It's complicated. One sub is more diffuse but that's not necessarily always a bad thing. Edge is a good tool but I don't get too caught up in an apparent half dB advantage here or there. Most of that directivity happens above 80Hz unless the baffle area starts getting truly large. One way I like to think about this is with 2 different philosophies. The first would be maximize the baffle area for the cabinet (think DTS-10 shape or similar) and get as much out in front of the cab with the drivers and design as possible. However at what point does this become impractical? Let's say the cab has a 60x60" baffle and is very shallow and gets some extra forward gain over a very similar design with the same driver which has a baffle of 30x30" but is much deeper. At some point you run into limitations in available depth to use and/or available baffle area. How many 60x60" baffle cabs are going to be able to be arranged? In a lot of cases not too many and eventually you just need more cabs and drivers. You could fit 4 of the 30x30 subs into the same baffle area as the 60x60 that would outperform it. The best case as far as potential output density per baffle area goes is that one entire face of the sub is radiating surface area. That's not going to be the best for directivity control though. You also end up with deeper cabs to get your cab volume. Tradeoffs. Vent area is vent area I'll give you that as an advantage for sure. This is the #1 priority I would have when redesigning the Skhorn. Mostly to work better with the lowered tunings. I try to avoid turns in vents when possible though. The reduced area of the slot for the drivers would increase air velocity over the horn expansion type though. I have some new thoughts on designing vented subs that I haven't gone to far with yet but I'll share once I think it through a bit more. Anyway that's part of the thinking behind not doing the straight slot or push pull drivers originally. It all comes down to tradeoffs and design choices. None of it is black and white it's all grey area and what makes sense for each case.
  5. 4 points
    I got myself a Powersoft K20 for these and tested them at full power for 20 hours,the amount of power and the stability that amp has is way way higher than what the clone or the Crown could ever dream off. I set the limiters and processing and I installed them in a small club for further long term tests. The deep end is imense. I have a pair of xoc1 TH18, we got 2 Vs 2 with their own processing and limiters on a K10 and the 2 large SKHorn got +10 dB on a 2 minutes average pink noise dBz and +18 dB at 30 Hz .
  6. 4 points
    Here is a RTA of thunder I took with my calibrated-to-4hz Dayton EMM-6 and a TASCAM US-1641 which starts dropping off at 20hz. The mic was inside a window behind the curtain with its windscreen on and SPL is uncalibrated but it clipped my mic just when it hit that peak at 4hz, and I had my mic at 3/4 of gain, so it was a pretty loud peak. The second image is with no smoothing was taken during the RTA. The first has 1/48th octave smoothing and is the total peak. I live far out in the country so there are no sources of infrasound from vehicles or factories except for a very low level 14hz tone from a glass plant about three miles away.
  7. 4 points
    Make sure you put a finish on the cab before you install the driver. I have had cabs that went without finish for 3 years, b/c after the driver goes in, it is so easy to just listen to it. JSS
  8. 4 points
    The Incredible Hulk is still the track I compare all others to. A close second is the Star Trek reboot, War of the Worlds, and all of the 5-Star films on the first page of the thread. For lots of 20Hz and below energy, Battle:LA is hard to beat as well. JSS
  9. 4 points
    So after reading this thread over the past year and amazed and the technical depth and extreme attention to detail paid to the tuning of this system and going "man I really want to hear this!", I flew and went to check out this system. And boy what an amazing system to listen to! My mind was blown as I was amazed by one thing after the other. All the work put into getting the tonal balance of this speaker correct really paid off big time. The whole system just sounds really "correct", and the more I listen to it the more I'm amazed by it. I brought my Reference Mini's with me as a comparison, and there was a very obvious difference in sound quality. I thought my speakers sounded really great, but it sound noticeably "off" when compared to this system. The speakers had a fantastic amount of detail, and the transients are awesome! It felt like I'm listening to a pair of really good headphones (and few people realize how hard and impressive it is to achieve this), but I also get the enveloping sound that makes speaker listening so pleasurable. It's the best of both worlds. What's even more impressive is the bass. I don't think I've heard bass so tight and full sounding in a room, which is clearly due to the complex integration efforts of multiple subs and individual EQ's to get such flat bass over a large number of seats. The clarity and tightness is seriously impressive. Again, just like a headphone, and that is actually something I've never heard before from a subwoofer. It is straight up the best sounding bass I've heard in a room. Now when you also get the whole body physical sensation from bass, addictive is an understatement. One thing that is unforgettable and blew my mind is how great the speakers sound in the kitchen! I don't think SME has ever mentioned this, but it was indeed one of his goals. It was remarkable hearing a correct tonal balance with almost no treble roll off in a different room! I still can't believe this is achievable. It must be the combination of controlled directivity speakers and properly placed diffusers pulled this amazing magic trick of a feat. I've heard a lot of amazing home theaters, but this is the first time I heard imaging from surrounds. It was trippy to be able to pinpoint the location of the sound going across the rear stage. I really wish we watched an action movie and be able to so accurately track the position of the sound effects. This is even more impressive as I seem to clearly have less ability to hear imaging compared to other people. Speaking about imaging, the speakers reproduced phase manipulated music tracks far more accurately than anything I've heard so far. It must be the room treatments that are preserving the phase accuracy of the speakers. It was like "oh this is where it is supposed to sound!" I was also exposed to the dark secrets of the time domain in room correction. That was a revelation to me to be exposed to so much more information and tools to analyze room acoustics. Now it makes sense why and how the room is mucking up the sound. It's all in the time domain! Now I am able to correlate measurements and subjective judgment of how good (or bad) the room sounds. I have so much to dig and play around with now. Measurements really can tell you about how good something sounds if you look at the right things and how to interpret it properly. Thank you SME and his wife for being such amazingly gracious hosts. That was one hell of a weekend! Oh, and did I make it clear enough that your system sounds good?
  10. 3 points
    FWIW I decided to knock up an little ui to make experimenting with BEQ easier (so it can extract audio using ffmpeg & show the results of adding assorted filters, comparing tracks) hence it removes the need to faff around with speclab). An early release (windows only atm as I'm away from my linux boxes) is available at https://github.com/3ll3d00d/beqdesigner/releases/tag/0.0.1-alpha.2 Here's a pick to illustrate https://imgur.com/a/KgfaxOJ This is still a fairly early build (and the exe is a bit massive) but it seems to be usable so thought I'd share it. The readme at github has some of the things left to do and some bugs. One thing not mentioned there is being able to apply different filter sets to different signals. EDIT: I replaced the exe with something that should display errors if you start it from a console (as someone on avs reported it didn't work for them) EDIT2: possible workaround in https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/2995212-bass-eq-fil-turd-movies.html#post56692822
  11. 3 points
    Just completed the Skhorn and just want to say thanks to @Ricci Never had so much fun firing it up for the first time. Everything in the house shaking and my 10 year old saying his chest "feels weird" Don't have much of a reference to compare to, only had two 15s before this. To say this is a giant leap forward, would be an understatement. Very impressed with the sound sonically, it's pounds, I have the volume at 50% with one bridged side of my inuke nu4. I had to back off or I start breaking my wifes stuff. Can't imagine how it performs with a great amp. Thanks again for making this available!
  12. 3 points
    Ready Player One BEQ (Both UHD and BD have ATMOS tracks, this correction was applied to the 7.1 channel bed) All effects that need to gain power/heft do so. I like this BEQ, and this film. Correction: LFE: Gain -7dB Low Shelf 16Hz, Slope 2, +5dB Low Shelf 16.5Hz, Slope 2, +5dB Low Shelf 17Hz, Slope 2, +5dB Low Shelf 33Hz, Slope 0.5, +2dB Highpass 6dB/oct 3Hz LCRS: Gain -7dB Low Shelf 15Hz, Slope 1, Gain +5.5dB (3 Filters for total of 17.5dB) Highpass 6dB/oct 3Hz Let me know what you think, and if you need Q values instead of slope values for the shelf filters. JSS
  13. 3 points
    The idea behind this build is to learn. I started my company to sell subs, because here in this part of Europe, there is a very deep lack of powerful high quality bass Mostly I wanted to see people's reactions, the power density, the extension, to see if the weight and dimensions are a big problem. They are now installed in a basement where we got them by hand. I wanted to see about the power compression, port noises, chuffing, I have learned how and why to install protection grilles, handles, wheels, I wanted to see if I can improve their performance in any way without any other compromise except cost and complexity. I wanted to learn about braces, hatches, accessibility. These gave me a good insight on all of these These subs will be loaded with 21ID and Ipal modules and will permanently stay in rent in a small club where people love good sound. Based on what I learned, I'll continue my other designs and after all 4 designs will be ready and I'll have a stock of 4 of each, I'll publish the specs, measurements, graphs , technical details , pictures and videos and I'll start selling those.
  14. 3 points
    Ready Player One - Dolby ATMOS (7.1 bed measured) Level - 5 Stars (112.67dB composite) <=NOTE that this is with dialnorm REMOVED=> Extension - 3 Stars (16Hz) Dynamics - 5 Stars (29.53dB Execution - TBD Notes - Clipped but decent soundtrack to accompany terrific visuals. I still do not have overheads, but my surrounds are mounted high and some overhead effects were experienced. Possible BEQ for this one. JSS
  15. 3 points
    the site is fine, the SSL cert expired for some reason, I'm really putting all energy into new site and getting off old one, sorry for down time. Should be fixed now, let me know
  16. 3 points
    I think what db does better than many other sites / forums is that discussion here can be backed by real numbers. Subjectivity, while is fun to discuss and does have value, can't really run unchecked to the existing data. Now, data does not capture everything, and I will admit that there is a certain adoration I hold for some subwoofers that don't even hold a candle to most things in our list and I'm not shy about it. Its fun to discuss everything, big, small, expensive and cheap, don't worry about getting ridiculed.
  17. 3 points
    The lower peak substantially depends on the suspension compliance, which is probably the least accurate T/S parameter given and the most likely to change with break-in as well as temperature and humidity.
  18. 3 points
    Three years.... Weak.... I am still rocking the OG MicroWrecker (since 2013)... No finish, not even sanded, still has big PL boogers on it.
  19. 3 points
    Hi max, long time no see. Hope you're doing well as well as the rest of you guys here on DB. I found something that I think is pretty cool that might interest you. It's a VST plugin (typically used in DAW's for recording) by iZotope that takes a clipped signal and "de-clips" it: For example I put down a bass part and intentionally clipped it: Close up of the clipped signal: After applying the de-clipper: After de-clipping zoomed in: Anybody who was bothered by a clipped soundtrack could put the separated channels into a DAW like Audacity, apply this, export it to disc and then apply max's BEQ to it to bring out the best of the low stuff. Just an idea... I know that it's a lot of work and that the production houses should just give us a proper product but it is what it is. Anyway, keep cool fellas... let the bass be with you and whatnot.
  20. 3 points
    This doesn't solve the phase match problem. If one uses a textbook electrical LR4, then the phase shift of the high pass and low pass filter will be identical vs. frequency. However, unless the speaker and sub(s) are ruler flat throughout the crossover region and co-located, they likely won't be phase-matched to begin with. The THX crossover was developed assuming the mains were sealed and had a natural Qtc=0.707 (Butterworth) 2nd roll-off. Two cascaded 2nd-order Butterworths makes an LR4, so the THX crossover applied a single 2nd order Butterworth to the mains and a full LR4 LPF to the subs. Provided that the subs didn't roll-off anywhere within the crossover region, that the mains behaved precisely as specified, and that they were co-located such that room effects applied to each equally, the result was ideal. In reality of course, "bass management" is a stinking mess. The whole point of it was that one could put the subs somewhere better for sub bass, but often the "better" locations are not so good for integrating with mains, especially where multi-listener is a priority. And of course, very few mains are sealed with perfect Qtc 0.707 and Fb 80 Hz. Any significant deviations from there substantially influence the phase response in the critical crossover region. Most mains these days are ported and tuned well below 80 Hz, so they have only slight phase shift at that point. They would do better with a full LR4 HPF, but few AVRs / processors seem to offer more than one XO type. My Denon AVR has the THX 2nd order 0.707 HPF baked in, which totally destroys the bass-managed mid-bass response with any speakers I've owned. The LFE response may measure picture perfect, but the mid-bass response of the other channels looks like trash. Also, how many subs are actually flat through the XO? Most of the beefier drivers are already dropping off from inductance effects. Sad to say, home theater "technology" is still stuck in the 90s in many respects. Great sound pretty much requires extensive customization, as I've learned over the years, and the affordable options for doing so leave a lot to be desired.
  21. 3 points
    Commercial cinemas, when designed, implemented, and maintained properly provide a great low frequency experience, similar to a well done live concert. The caveat is that the experience does not extend much lower than 25-30Hz. Most impact/slam is between 40-100Hz and even higher in frequency. We are freaks here that can monitor and playback the lowest frequencies, that are often taken out of a mix that is CREATED and is meant to be played on a cinema system (25-30Hz vented, high sensitivity subwoofers). While mixing stages have existed in the past that could monitor into the low teens Hz-wise, most cannot monitor below the high-20s. We sometimes are surprised by mixes that do not exclude the content below 30Hz, as those mixes are a significantly different experience in a properly equipped home theatre. Your friends may simply be used to a certain frequency and level of low frequency experience, and call that 'good'. The EQ mixing described is in the Bass EQ for movies thread on this forum. JSS
  22. 3 points
    Thanks Kyle! Actually, he jumped the gun a bit here and declared victory while the update was still running. NOW it's all done. Edit: Total count of posts updated: 169!
  23. 3 points
  24. 3 points
    Looks like I've got to pick this one up if nothing else but for the fun factor. Anyone want to take bets on how many of my neighbors will complain to my HOA when I listen to this movie at a decent level? Haha.
  25. 3 points
    Othorn files. OTHORN print AUTOCAD 2000.DXF OTHORN DXF scale print.pdf OTHORN print.pdf
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