Ricci Posted January 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 I definitely like the IPAL drivers specs better than the 18 Sound drivers. If I could buy a M drive module I would try it but I will have to stick with the lesser expensive SP plate amps. AND for my build I will make two hatch covers. One with the plate amp and one without. Most likely I would never use the hatches without the plate amp but if I feel like pushing the limits with the higher tune I can use a bigger amp with just speakons on the other hatch. If moving these cabinets around a lot does anyone use corner protectors? I know Duratex is great but was curious for those that move large cabinets around a LOT. Just want to be able to beat on the exterior for a while. My cabinet probably wont move very much if any at all but I like to plan for roadies handling or UPS handling. lol Thanks The 18 sound drivers look good but their gap geometry appears to be nearly the same as the 9600 or 9000 series. The B&C stuff has a taller top plate (18mm on the 21) and a longer coil wind from what I can tell. The result is quite a bit more xmax. The 21Ipal coil has a 15mm overhang and doesn't leave the gap completely until 33mm. The 18 sound ID drivers are likely closer to a 10mm overhang and leaving the gap at 22mm. You can install corner protectors, skid plates, wheels, pole mount, etc. Whatever you want to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrapladm Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Thanks Ricci. I only asked about the protection because I wondered what everyone else uses when moving things around a lot. I have never done pro audio but others like yourself might know what works and what is a waste. I remember you telling us about the 21ID speaker before when comparing it to the IPAL. Amazingly enough the IPAL price for me has come down a bit. Not a huge difference but enough. The 18IPAL went from 989 to 670 for me. Not saying I will be using IPAL at all but I was happy to see pricing getting cheaper. Making a 4ohm 50 batch would be nice. Although I dont know if there are enough of us to cover 50. I order through my local dealer and get thing sea freighted for free. So not sure if I ever could be a part of the deal. Its a nice thought either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricci Posted February 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 I've got a pair of B&C 21DS115 drivers on hand for general testing purposes so I'll try them out in this cab in comparison to the 21ipal's. On paper they look really good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radulescu_paul_mircea Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 I really have to know what those drivers are made of, cause I can get them at a hell of a good price but there has to be somewhere it doesn't perform as well as the 152. I can't wait to see what this sub is capable of also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricci Posted February 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 I really have to know what those drivers are made of, cause I can get them at a hell of a good price but there has to be somewhere it doesn't perform as well as the 152. I can't wait to see what this sub is capable of also. I don't know yet but we will by this summer. I'm going to guess that the DS driver has slightly worse distortion and a bit more thermal compression. I'm also going to guess that it has just a bit more useful displacement. Once those start showing up at all the major B&C vendors I wouldn't be surprised to see street prices below $500. Perhaps well below. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radulescu_paul_mircea Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 ONCE those start showing up at all the major B&C vendors I wouldn't be surprised to see street prices below $500. Perhaps well below. :-D more or LESS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrapladm Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 The street price for me on the SW152 went up but 30%. SO I am interested in seeing what these drivers will be in about 6 months. BUT after simulating the 2ohm SW152 Bennet posted I am also curious about that model. It does very similar numbers to the IPAL but needs less watts to hit that spl. While it may not be an option because of the 50 piece batch minimum it still looks great in sims. UH21v1 looks great also but needs a Fp14K to hit 3/4 Xmax. AND it does cost a lot more money. 2ohm has a 25hz 4th Hpass and 120hz 4th Lpass. 9000watts IPAL has a 26hz 4th Hpass and 120hz 4th Lpass. 11000watts UH21v1 needs 14000 to hit 26mm for around the same SPL also. So the BC drivers look to be a better match sensitivity wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3ll3d00d Posted February 5, 2017 Report Share Posted February 5, 2017 do you have any suggestions of drivers that would work in a scaled down version? e.g. using 10s or 12s. Just curious to try modelling a smaller version before I decide what to build this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricci Posted February 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2017 Depends on what your goals are as far as output size and bandwidth? Budget also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3ll3d00d Posted February 5, 2017 Report Share Posted February 5, 2017 Size is the main constraint, about 2' high x 20" deep and maybe 4' wide. Budget I don't mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SME Posted February 5, 2017 Report Share Posted February 5, 2017 Size is the main constraint, about 2' high x 20" deep and maybe 4' wide. Budget I don't mind. Is this for near-field / tactile response? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3ll3d00d Posted February 5, 2017 Report Share Posted February 5, 2017 Perhaps, not sure really, depends what the models come out like. By that I mean the main position available is fairly near field. I don't really have a plan atm tbh, just want to try modelling some different designs and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricci Posted February 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 Bandwidth is really important. How low do you need it to go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3ll3d00d Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 deeper is always better obviously it sounds like I'm being deliberately obtuse but I'm not, honest! Basically my approach here is model some stuff, see what can be achieved, compare to what can physically fit in my room, compare to what I have already and see whether that is something that makes sense as part of the system, repeat until I find one or more interesting things to build. This means that, atm, I'm asking "what can be built using this approach with 10-12" drivers?" rather than "I want something that can do 110dB at 25Hz" (or whatever). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrikalsound Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 Hey Ricci Huge fan of your work and wondered if you could drop me an email as we are from bonny Scotland and would love to build 8 of these. http://www.facebook.com/electrikalsoundsystem 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricci Posted February 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 Hey Ricci Huge fan of your work and wondered if you could drop me an email as we are from bonny Scotland and would love to build 8 of these. http://www.facebook.com/electrikalsoundsystem Hey Richard...Welcome to the forum. I've sent you my email in a PM so we can discuss. I also edited your email out of your post. You don't want that floating around THAT publicly. That's quite the setup you've got there. Looks fun. 16 18" scoops, kick bins and 3 way horn loaded mains? What is going on in the kick bins? Double 15's? I kind of like the blue offset against the wood finish by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricci Posted February 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 In other news it looks like my cabs are about to ship from dsl1's shop. Now I just need the weather to hurry up and warm up. deeper is always better obviously it sounds like I'm being deliberately obtuse but I'm not, honest! Basically my approach here is model some stuff, see what can be achieved, compare to what can physically fit in my room, compare to what I have already and see whether that is something that makes sense as part of the system, repeat until I find one or more interesting things to build. This means that, atm, I'm asking "what can be built using this approach with 10-12" drivers?" rather than "I want something that can do 110dB at 25Hz" (or whatever). I didn't forget about this I just haven't had a lot of time to look at the options yet. There are some 10 and 12" drivers that look workable in this type of cab but I haven't gotten to the point of getting into details or comparing against other cab types the same size. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsl1 Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 Hey Richard...Welcome to the forum. I've sent you my email in a PM so we can discuss. I also edited your email out of your post. You don't want that floating around THAT publicly. That's quite the setup you've got there. Looks fun. 16 18" scoops, kick bins and 3 way horn loaded mains? What is going on in the kick bins? Double 15's? I kind of like the blue offset against the wood finish by the way. Cool setup Richard! Guessing the kickbins are a cut in half variant of the USB's with 18s? Curious about your mains, it's on the list to build at some point. Ricci, what do you use for PA mains? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricci Posted February 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 Looks like my cabs are getting delivered tomorrow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsl1 Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 Looks like my cabs are getting delivered tomorrow. Nice! Did they call and schedule a time? Pretty quick transit time, faster than my order from parts-express... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricci Posted February 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 Yep. Got a call this morning. Not bad at all. I'm glad they are here before this weekend. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsl1 Posted February 15, 2017 Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 Yep. Got a call this morning. Not bad at all. I'm glad they are here before this weekend. Weather looks beautiful next week too, measurements!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricci Posted February 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 Weather looks beautiful next week too, measurements!!! Haha! I have a couple of days worth of crap to do to them in the garage first! Need to break in the 21DS115's more. Load the Ipals, wiring, impedance measurements, pull parameters from the DS115's, maybe mess with some close mic measurements while I'm at it. Might see what a bit of 2.5" thick mattress foam around the driver does. Also mess with the vent tunings and figure out what the HPF's need to be for the wide open testing, Etc...Don't worry I'll get there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 Sorry if this was asked, but how do you mount the drivers? Does that rear access hole allow you to get screws all around or does the top come off some how? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricci Posted February 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 Access hatches are huge. Plenty of room. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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