Ricci

Ricci's Skhorn Subwoofer & Files

260 posts in this topic

Yes have a UMM-6 calibrated mic. Let me know what you'd like to see. 

 

I know you're busy but if you get a day to mess around I wouldn't mind seeing a close mic of a vent and of the horn/slot both with no processing. Also an in room at the listening position would be cool. It's going to be a few months probably until I'll be in a position to take my own measurements so I'm really curious how close it turns out to the models.

 

Done any more listening?

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I know you're busy but if you get a day to mess around I wouldn't mind seeing a close mic of a vent and of the horn/slot both with no processing. Also an in room at the listening position would be cool. It's going to be a few months probably until I'll be in a position to take my own measurements so I'm really curious how close it turns out to the models.

 

Done any more listening?

 

Ok, can do it this weekend.

 

Yeah a bit more listening. Really like it. Both this and the Othorn do something right that I'm not sure how to quantify.

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Yeah a bit more listening. Really like it. Both this and the Othorn do something right that I'm not sure how to quantify.

 

It's probably the extra speed and slam these designs offer.

 

I spent months making sure these would be super ultra mega fast and airy sounding. On my first prototypes I actually had too much speed and I found out that the cones were breaking from the G-forces involved in stopping and starting so quickly. In fact one of the early prototypes exploded into a flaming inferno when I fed it 1.21 giga-volts and the air friction inside the cabinet became too great due to the extreme high-speed and airiness. The sound was so tight that the bass notes stopped and started faster than my ear drum could respond to the pressure changes. It was almost like the bass wasn't even there. I'd actually created a bass system that was too tight with too much speed. In fact these new cabs would often need delayed by 3 or 4 seconds so that the HF from the tweeters could keep up.  A lot of this had to do with the arrangement of the panels inside the sub that create the particle vortex processor chamber and high velocity, phase recombining, acoustic injection system.  After a lot of tweaks I finally have it detuned to a point where it isn't weaponized and is safe for domestic use but still maintains every bit of the speed and tightness almost 73% of the time.

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It's probably the extra speed and slam these designs offer.

 

I spent months making sure these would be super ultra mega fast and airy sounding. On my first prototypes I actually had too much speed and I found out that the cones were breaking from the G-forces involved in stopping and starting so quickly. In fact one of the early prototypes exploded into a flaming inferno when I fed it 1.21 giga-volts and the air friction inside the cabinet became too great due to the extreme high-speed and airiness. The sound was so tight that the bass notes stopped and started faster than my ear drum could respond to the pressure changes. It was almost like the bass wasn't even there. I'd actually created a bass system that was too tight with too much speed. In fact these new cabs would often need delayed by 3 or 4 seconds so that the HF from the tweeters could keep up. A lot of this had to do with the arrangement of the panels inside the sub that create the particle vortex processor chamber and high velocity, phase recombining, acoustic injection system. After a lot of tweaks I finally have it detuned to a point where it isn't weaponized and is safe for domestic use but still maintains every bit of the speed and tightness almost 73% of the time.

You and that guy from b&c would hit it off.

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It's probably the extra speed and slam these designs offer.

 

I spent months making sure these would be super ultra mega fast and airy sounding. On my first prototypes I actually had too much speed and I found out that the cones were breaking from the G-forces involved in stopping and starting so quickly. In fact one of the early prototypes exploded into a flaming inferno when I fed it 1.21 giga-volts and the air friction inside the cabinet became too great due to the extreme high-speed and airiness. The sound was so tight that the bass notes stopped and started faster than my ear drum could respond to the pressure changes. It was almost like the bass wasn't even there. I'd actually created a bass system that was too tight with too much speed. In fact these new cabs would often need delayed by 3 or 4 seconds so that the HF from the tweeters could keep up.  A lot of this had to do with the arrangement of the panels inside the sub that create the particle vortex processor chamber and high velocity, phase recombining, acoustic injection system.  After a lot of tweaks I finally have it detuned to a point where it isn't weaponized and is safe for domestic use but still maintains every bit of the speed and tightness almost 73% of the time.

 

Wow!  It sounds like the bass from this thing is so fast, it actually exceeds the sound barrier.  Can you talk about its hyper-extended pistonic action?  That probably has more to do with the good slam than just the speed, you know.

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It's probably the extra speed and slam these designs offer.

 

I spent months making sure these would be super ultra mega fast and airy sounding. On my first prototypes I actually had too much speed and I found out that the cones were breaking from the G-forces involved in stopping and starting so quickly. In fact one of the early prototypes exploded into a flaming inferno when I fed it 1.21 giga-volts and the air friction inside the cabinet became too great due to the extreme high-speed and airiness. The sound was so tight that the bass notes stopped and started faster than my ear drum could respond to the pressure changes. It was almost like the bass wasn't even there. I'd actually created a bass system that was too tight with too much speed. In fact these new cabs would often need delayed by 3 or 4 seconds so that the HF from the tweeters could keep up.  A lot of this had to do with the arrangement of the panels inside the sub that create the particle vortex processor chamber and high velocity, phase recombining, acoustic injection system.  After a lot of tweaks I finally have it detuned to a point where it isn't weaponized and is safe for domestic use but still maintains every bit of the speed and tightness almost 73% of the time.

e4307399e9111e85cb58f7612f33767b.jpg

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I sincerely hope  you addressed the distortion/comb filtering and overall experience in your room in your fast-bass system with these:

 

http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm

 

And think of all the upgrades you could do with all of these products:

 

http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina5.htm

 

We are so behind the curve here at d-b it sucks.

 

JSS

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Oh damn that's just what we need! A few pebbles scattered about the room. What are we thinking with bass traps, measurement systems and modern dsp? Simply strategically place a few minerals and instantly get that last 1%. Only $99 too. What a steal.

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It's probably the extra speed and slam these designs offer.

 

I spent months making sure these would be super ultra mega fast and airy sounding. On my first prototypes I actually had too much speed and I found out that the cones were breaking from the G-forces involved in stopping and starting so quickly. In fact one of the early prototypes exploded into a flaming inferno when I fed it 1.21 giga-volts and the air friction inside the cabinet became too great due to the extreme high-speed and airiness. The sound was so tight that the bass notes stopped and started faster than my ear drum could respond to the pressure changes. It was almost like the bass wasn't even there. I'd actually created a bass system that was too tight with too much speed. In fact these new cabs would often need delayed by 3 or 4 seconds so that the HF from the tweeters could keep up.  A lot of this had to do with the arrangement of the panels inside the sub that create the particle vortex processor chamber and high velocity, phase recombining, acoustic injection system.  After a lot of tweaks I finally have it detuned to a point where it isn't weaponized and is safe for domestic use but still maintains every bit of the speed and tightness almost 73% of the time.

 

That would explain it.

 

Piles of parts everywhere! Saw your email about the port blocks. Good, I had made them already :P

 

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New 4K tv to watch while working in the shop?

 

32 handles for 2 cabs. Didn't realize till I went to buy them. At least I got a price break for so many.

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New 4K tv to watch while working in the shop?

 

32 handles for 2 cabs. Didn't realize till I went to buy them. At least I got a price break for so many.

 

It's a shop / baniels storage! Nice TV though :)

 

We are getting close. Finished one hatch and it lines up perfectly which was the last concern. 

 

Went ahead and got all the inserts done which took a minute..

 

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All parts done except the remaining hatches holes + handle cutouts and cutting the angles. 

 

LX4plSX.jpg

 

So many pieces!

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Since I dont have the input screen for HR on this sub what wattage/voltage should I aim for per 21"?

 

I was looking at getting a clone amp but for around the same price I could get the SP plate amp. Not sure if the 4000 would be enough but amp limited isnt a bad thing. I cant afford the SP12000 and the other option is the FP14 clone. I am still hesitant on the clone. It would be more than enough I am sure but I am trying to finally get my very first SP amp.

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Since I dont have the input screen for HR on this sub what wattage/voltage should I aim for per 21"?

 

Post #1 has the preliminary cabinet inputs in HR for a 21. Subject to a bit of tweaking depending on how the finished version measures. Should be close. Change the driver parameters depending on the driver wanted.

 

As far as the amplifier required it depends on the driver used and how they are wired. With most of the drivers I've modeled this should have about 1 to 2dB sensitivity advantage over an Othorn from 35-95Hz. It will make a lot of noise with just a 500w amp. If you were to put a pair of B&C 18PZB100's in there and plug some ports to drop the tuning a 500w amp should be a decent match. If using the 21sw152's or one of the other big neo pro 21's and you are looking to get everything out of it a 4-6 kw rated amp should get the drivers near xmax or slightly past. Of course cutting that in half to a 2-3kw amp only loses 3dB.

 

What I'm saying is you don't have to use a 6000watt monster amp on one of these. It is a sensitive cab so it's going to do a lot of work with even a limited amount of power.

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Not sure why my post got deleted by my browser. I forgot about the HR input picture from the first post. I will be building the Skhorn with a pair of 21SW152's. I unfortunately have to wait for BC to build the second 21 in Feb. So that will be another 1.5 months until I get the speaker in hand. I will be using Penn Elcom handles for my build and possibly the SP4000 plate amp. I will be amp limited but I cant afford the SP6000 plate amp for another 300. This amp will already be pushing my budget but I would like to try the SP amps. If I need more SPL I will just build another cabinet.

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I sincerely hope  you addressed the distortion/comb filtering and overall experience in your room in your fast-bass system with these:

 

http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm

 

And think of all the upgrades you could do with all of these products:

 

http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina5.htm

 

We are so behind the curve here at d-b it sucks.

 

JSS

 

 

Oh damn that's just what we need! A few pebbles scattered about the room. What are we thinking with bass traps, measurement systems and modern dsp? Simply strategically place a few minerals and instantly get that last 1%. Only $99 too. What a steal.

 

 

Sadly, I know people that would fall for that.

 

With all the nonsense that is spouted on some audiophool forums, I don't even know if that's a joke website or not!!

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Not sure why my post got deleted by my browser. I forgot about the HR input picture from the first post. I will be building the Skhorn with a pair of 21SW152's. I unfortunately have to wait for BC to build the second 21 in Feb. So that will be another 1.5 months until I get the speaker in hand. I will be using Penn Elcom handles for my build and possibly the SP4000 plate amp. I will be amp limited but I cant afford the SP6000 plate amp for another 300. This amp will already be pushing my budget but I would like to try the SP amps. If I need more SPL I will just build another cabinet.

 

With a 4000 on those drivers it will be plenty loud for a single cab. Actually that should be about perfect for the cab if you block 2 ports for the 25Hz tune. 80-85volts with the 2 drivers in parallel. You won't quite reach xmax with all ports open but it will be significantly louder than an Othorn anyway.

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FYI, the max RMS voltage ratings of the SP amps are 126V for the 6kW amp and 109V for the 4kW amps.  See the specs.  I assume that those apply to the plate amps as well.

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FYI, the max RMS voltage ratings of the SP amps are 126V for the 6kW amp and 109V for the 4kW amps.  See the specs.  I assume that those apply to the plate amps as well.

 

The rack mount amps are just a pair of the plate amps in a single enclosure.  They are actually completely separate monoblocks, pretty much only sharing the single power plug.

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Right but that's unloaded. Clipping will occur at a lower voltage into a low impedance. If I recall the 6k would be something like 95volts into 2 ohms.

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Right but that's unloaded. Clipping will occur at a lower voltage into a low impedance. If I recall the 6k would be something like 95volts into 2 ohms.

 

For sine waves and 6 kW output into 2 ohm impedance, I believe the voltage will be around 109.5V, or 90V from the 4 kW amp.

 

High impedance is a different story.  With ported systems, drivers will often reach max excursion at a frequency near an impedance peak.  Hence, max voltage is important when looking at excursion-limited power handling.

 

I actually like modelling with max voltage but keeping in mind that my amp may run out of gas up to a few dB lower for content focused around where the impedance gets low.  The max voltage is basically a hard spec; whereas, max power output as a spec is wishy-washy.  Actual max power output depends a lot on test conditions.  Long duration sine wave tests like Luke has been doing here are probably a lot more brutal than most real world content, so with high crest factor content, the amp may be able to push closer to the max voltage without clipping than the power rating might suggest.

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Correct. I must've been thinking of the 4kw instead of the 6kw. Too many numbers in my head.

For most amps they will start getting into voltage limitations rather than current limitations somewhere around or above 8 ohms with long term signals. As you say it's a moving target depending on the varying impedance vs frequency and a lot of other factors. Content is rarely a pure sine wave for one and it depends on the duration as well. Also the drivers will start to become non linear at high excursions even if technically still within xmax and that will result in a bit more voltage or power being needed than a sim suggests. Although prior testing shows that most systems behave in a more linear fashion at the impedance maximums/high efficiency zones.

 

The data on the SP site shows long term and medium term output but no very short term burst type output? I wonder how close the amps can get to the voltage limits into the low impedances with a short term burst? It's possible that the 6k could technically have a rating of something like 7500w into 2 ohm if tested at the optimum frequency with a short burp like other amp mfg's do these days. Might further explain why those amps seem to over perform compared to others carrying the same power specs, beyond just having longer term sustained power. If the SP 6K is actually 6K sustained for 3 or 4 secs into 2ohms with a signal below 100Hz and is capable of bursting say 7500w that's way different than something like an Inuke 6K that is spec'd at 6Kw bursted at 1khz and might only be 2kw sustained in the bass range.

 

Long story short Chrapladm I think the 4k SP amp is a great match for one of these with dual 21sw152's

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And also if you have the will and money , a M-Drive module used for this sub if one is using the Ipal drivers ;)

That would be a killer. Probably in the same range as K-Array KS8 ( which costs 10000$ :-0) I think even better as that one is using the 21ID and Ipal MOD

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I definitely like the IPAL drivers specs better than the 18 Sound drivers. If I could buy a M drive module I would try it but I will have to stick with the lesser expensive SP plate amps. AND for my build I will make two hatch covers. One with the plate amp and one without. Most likely I would never use the hatches without the plate amp  but if I feel like pushing the limits with the higher tune I can use a bigger amp with just speakons on the other hatch.

 

If moving these cabinets around a lot does anyone use corner protectors?

 

I know Duratex is great but was curious for those that move large cabinets around a LOT. Just want to be able to beat on the exterior for a while. My cabinet probably wont move very much if any at all but I like to plan for roadies handling or UPS handling. lol

 

Thanks

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And also if you have the will and money , a M-Drive module used for this sub if one is using the Ipal drivers ;)

 

M-drive module is HUGE...If I recall the plate and control panel is around 26" tall. It wouldn't fit.

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