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(8) Sealed Incriminator Audio Judge 21" build


lukeamdman

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What sort of feature is around the baffle perimeter? Did you rout a V-groove around it or something?

 

On the original baffles I had a small round over, so to avoid a bunch of putty work I made the new baffles 1/16" shorter on each side.  It looks like crap now since there's a lip there, but my patience with this build was gone a long time ago.  

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Already have.

 

 I see no reason to assume the drivers you settled on have more power handling.

 

Don't excuse the refit baffles, they look great. I actually like the recess inside the previous round over. Looks more custom, IMO.

 

Thanks!

 

The Judge and HS24 both have 3" 8-layer coils, but the Judge does have a slightly longer coil winding (66mm) and with a much thicker gauge of wire.  The only voice coil I've seen with this thick of wire is the ipal.

 

The Judge uses the same coil as the Warden (rated for 3,500w RMS) but obviously has a ferrite based motor and slightly different suspension. 

 

In addition to a beefier coil I'd also give the edge in cooling/venting to the Judge.  The 2lb aluminum vented pole cap and the large spacing between the top plate and frame allow for some crazy air flow. 

 

The downside to this degree of cooling is a lot of motor/whooshing sounds, to an extent I've never heard before on a driver in free air.  I added a 1" thick foam lining to the inside of the boxes in addition to the 6 pillows just to make sure I mask the air turbulence. 

 

Of course we all know there's more to a drivers durability than just it's thermal handling capabilities.  The Judge has 4 spiders compared to 1 on the HS24, and those quad spiders are actually the limiting factor for excursion at 39mm inward.  I've had other drivers where the xmech was from things like the spiders hitting the back plate or the back of the cone contacting the spider landing, and that can be game over very quickly. 

 

The Judge also has a BL^2/Re of ~240, so the box size requirements are a lot less and it makes it more versatile for future projects. 

 

Again, I'm not trying to diss the HS24 in any way, and my assessment could be wrong, but after looking at quite few drivers this one fit the bill for all my requirements for this project.

 

If I could have afforded it, a custom 21" from Nathan Funk was at the very top of my list.  Carbon fiber cones, neo motors, 4.5" coils, incredible cooling, and of course insane craftsmanship and quality control. 

 

I blew the budget out of the water with the IA drivers, but the Funk drivers (worth every penny) would have been near $3k more on top of that. 

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The Judge also has a BL^2/Re of ~240, so the box size requirements are a lot less and it makes it more versatile for future projects.

 

Now I really want to see those T/S parameters, as well as some info on how much $$ these set you back.  :)  Also, what is their mounting depth?

 

Edit: I see on the web page that these are only 12.5" deep.  The Neo-based Warden drivers are only 11.5" deep.

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Thanks!

 

The Judge and HS24 both have 3" 8-layer coils, but the Judge does have a slightly longer coil winding (66mm) and with a much thicker gauge of wire.  The only voice coil I've seen with this thick of wire is the ipal.

 

The Judge uses the same coil as the Warden (rated for 3,500w RMS) but obviously has a ferrite based motor and slightly different suspension. 

 

In addition to a beefier coil I'd also give the edge in cooling/venting to the Judge.  The 2lb aluminum vented pole cap and the large spacing between the top plate and frame allow for some crazy air flow. 

 

The downside to this degree of cooling is a lot of motor/whooshing sounds, to an extent I've never heard before on a driver in free air.  I added a 1" thick foam lining to the inside of the boxes in addition to the 6 pillows just to make sure I mask the air turbulence. 

 

Of course we all know there's more to a drivers durability than just it's thermal handling capabilities.  The Judge has 4 spiders compared to 1 on the HS24, and those quad spiders are actually the limiting factor for excursion at 39mm inward.  I've had other drivers where the xmech was from things like the spiders hitting the back plate or the back of the cone contacting the spider landing, and that can be game over very quickly. 

 

The Judge also has a BL^2/Re of ~240, so the box size requirements are a lot less and it makes it more versatile for future projects. 

 

Again, I'm not trying to diss the HS24 in any way, and my assessment could be wrong, but after looking at quite few drivers this one fit the bill for all my requirements for this project.

 

If I could have afforded it, a custom 21" from Nathan Funk was at the very top of my list.  Carbon fiber cones, neo motors, 4.5" coils, incredible cooling, and of course insane craftsmanship and quality control. 

 

I blew the budget out of the water with the IA drivers, but the Funk drivers (worth every penny) would have been near $3k more on top of that. 

 

 

FWIW The HS-24 has two spiders, not one. And the WW (winding width) is only 4mm longer on the Judge than the HS-24 which is marginal. The HS-24 also has a vented aluminum pole cap and gap vents. If the VC wire is of larger gauge and is 8 layer flat aluminum just like the HS-24 it means the DCR is obnoxiously lower (like 0.5 Ohm per coil insead of 2.0 per coil) than the HS-24 since both coils are of flat aluminum wire and eight layers with the only difference being the marginal 4mm taller WW of the Judge than the HS assuming the same 76.2mm former ID with 8 mil thickness. Bi-filar coils have each coil wire (two wires) wired in parallel so the wire is substantially smaller than a single wire coil because the impedance needs to be twice that of a single wire coil so I'm not sure how Nick has such massive wire on a bi-filar 8 layer coil with a very similar WW. Of course...unless you opted for the Dual 0.50 Ohm or 0.35 Ohm coils. As you mentioned, the spiders are smaller (8" or maybe 8 3/8'th) on the Judge which limit stroke vs. the 10" spiders on the HS. 

 

Also just for sheer data (since Nick at IA does not publish any specs for the drivers) what is the BL and what is the Re of your drivers? You mentioned BL^2/Re but Nick does not list any T/S parameters on his web page. Can you get a complete list of the parameters from Nick? 

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FWIW The HS-24 has two spiders, not one. And the WW (winding width) is only 4mm longer on the Judge than the HS-24 which is marginal. The HS-24 also has a vented aluminum pole cap and gap vents. If the VC wire is of larger gauge and is 8 layer flat aluminum just like the HS-24 it means the DCR is obnoxiously lower (like 0.5 Ohm per coil insead of 2.0 per coil) than the HS-24 since both coils are of flat aluminum wire and eight layers with the only difference being the marginal 4mm taller WW of the Judge than the HS assuming the same 76.2mm former ID with 8 mil thickness. Bi-filar coils have each coil wire (two wires) wired in parallel so the wire is substantially smaller than a single wire coil because the impedance needs to be twice that of a single wire coil so I'm not sure how Nick has such massive wire on a bi-filar 8 layer coil with a very similar WW. Of course...unless you opted for the Dual 0.50 Ohm or 0.35 Ohm coils. As you mentioned, the spiders are smaller (8" or maybe 8 3/8'th) on the Judge which limit stroke vs. the 10" spiders on the HS. 

 

Also just for sheer data (since Nick at IA does not publish any specs for the drivers) what is the BL and what is the Re of your drivers? You mentioned BL^2/Re but Nick does not list any T/S parameters on his web page. Can you get a complete list of the parameters from Nick? 

 

I have the dual 1.5ohm coils.  I didn't ask about the WW for the 0.50ohm or 0.35ohm coils, so it could be wider on those. 

 

Me and Nick discussed a lot of the T/S specs over the phone but I don't recall them anymore.  I just sent him an email asking for them and I'll post them when he replies. 

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Be great to see a close mic response if you get a chance.  B)

 

Changing the Cms to convert a car sub to an HT sub raises Vas and box size accordingly. Lowering Fs lowers 1W/1M number as well. It's all very interesting stuff and would be great if you can post any of those data. I understand if you prefer not to find or post it.

 

Nick posted a bit on this a awhile back regarding designing the driver for HT, specifically the efficiency in the subwoofer bandwidth vs overall 1W/1M numbers. By lowering the Fs, thus lowering the 1W/1M number, he actually raises the efficiency <30 Hz. We found the results of that philosophy during our BHT-15 vs LMS-R-15 vs HST-15 shootout.

 

The BHT and LMS-R have the same Fs, which is reflected in the response oif a pair of drivers in a Raptor enclosure. The HST-15 has a lower Fs. The graph suggests that at 1K Hz, the HST might have a lower 1W/1M number, but <30 Hz, it has the highest sensitivity by around +5dB by design. That means far less signal shaping boost to get the desired response for full bandwidth response in-room. Typically, this means a bigger box is required but with the 100 Hz LPF in-line and signal shaping, it's mostly moot.

 

t2F0VHg.png

 

Anyway, very interested in any details you can give besides the inevitable dBSPL stuff. :P

 

I'll definitely post close mic graphs, but the drivers need to break in first.  The suspension is still rock hard, and 30 minutes of a 15hz sine wave in free air at 1.5" peak to peak excursion did absolutely nothing to loosen them up. 

 

I was chatting with Nick yesterday and he said they'll take a full month of several hours a day of use to break in. 

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Those are some big ass cabs. Way bigger than mine. What's the dims on those again?

Do you plan to leave them in that orientation? If you have room to turn them sideways against the wall that would probably improve the upper bass response a bit. Stack them maybe?

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Those are some big ass cabs. Way bigger than mine. What's the dims on those again?

Do you plan to leave them in that orientation? If you have room to turn them sideways against the wall that would probably improve the upper bass response a bit. Stack them maybe?

 

Definitely not staying there lol.  I just slid them there so I could power them up for a few minutes.  The cabs are 24" wide, 22.5" tall, and 55" deep (3" thick baffles). 

 

Two of these cabinets will be stacked, and then with an Othorn stacked on top of them.  In the picture below, replace the Ghorns with two of these cabinets stacked:

 

 

20140723_232422_zpsnzlaegzx.jpg

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Those are some big ass cabs. Way bigger than mine. What's the dims on those again?

Do you plan to leave them in that orientation? If you have room to turn them sideways against the wall that would probably improve the upper bass response a bit. Stack them maybe?

 

 

Definitely not staying there lol.  I just slid them there so I could power them up for a few minutes.  The cabs are 24" wide, 22.5" tall, and 55" deep (3" thick baffles). 

 

Two of these cabinets will be stacked, and then with an Othorn stacked on top of them.  In the picture below, replace the Ghorns with two of these cabinets stacked:

 

 

 

 

Agreed. Stacked with the drivers facing the side walls (and each other on the inside) would be how I'd set it up.

 

I don't envy you having to move your mains. :o

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Agreed. Stacked with the drivers facing the side walls (and each other on the inside) would be how I'd set it up.

 

I don't envy you having to move your mains. :o

I believe the plan is to slide these into the theater, then stack them, and then slide them into their final location. After that we will stack the Othorns. All to avoid moving Lukes mains. This still the plan Luke?
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Agreed. Stacked with the drivers facing the side walls (and each other on the inside) would be how I'd set it up.

 

I don't envy you having to move your mains. :o

 

 

I believe the plan is to slide these into the theater, then stack them, and then slide them into their final location. After that we will stack the Othorns. All to avoid moving Lukes mains. This still the plan Luke?

 

Exactly.  We'll stack two of the sealed cabinets and then slide them into place.  Once in place, we'll stack the Othorns on top. 

 

Each stack will weigh ~800lb's...

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