MikeDuke Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 "So the mixers, KNOWING their content will be played back at a lower level, sometimes mix at this lower level. To compensate, the sound team and director make the mix hotter, knowing it will be played back lower." WHAT ? What ever happened to being on the same page. Some movies I noticed are way louder when compared to others. I am sure everyone has noticed that. I am not even talking about IMAX. Just regular theaters. Now there was one theater that had the best overall sound I had ever heard in a theater. It was a Movie Tavern theater. I saw Die Hard 5 and it was just insane how good it was. I don't know what they did in that theater, or to that movie but it was awesome. I saw Interstellar in a real IMAX theater. It was loud yes, but I was able to still enjoy it. And I don't even get close to reference level in my room on my preamp. Again, I guess it's the inconsistency that gets me. One movie is great and other is horrible. It would be nice if the directors and theater owners got on the same page but that probably won't happen. Oh well. I guess we just have to hope that we get more of the good stuff as opposed to the bad stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmercy Posted October 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 Fillm-makers will likely argue that film and film sound is 'art', and that not everyone will like the end product, just like some electronic music is very much saw and square wave heavy and meant to have an edge to it, just like a fuzz pedal on a guitar, like Jimi Hendrix. Acoustic and Classical guitar purists could call that fuzz-pedal sound garbage. Until we can figure out a way to influence BD sales by warning people away from bad tracks, or by reaching out to both film-makers and exhibitors and have a decent message that they will hopefully listen to, we can really only cross our fingers for unfiltered, unclipped mixes. But lets face it. The majority of BDs are played back on TV speakers. Most of the 'multichannel' setups out there are soundbars. A smaller subset are HTiBs, then you get to the Axiom/Cambridge setups as well as the pricier offerings from the big box stores, which may be able to reach to 30-40Hz at -15 to -20dBRef. The smallest conglomerate of folks are the enthusiasts like us, who can playback at Reference or very near to it with <10Hz capability. I playback at -7dBRef when going full-bore, which is the offset recommended for my size room. The most impactful film presentation I ever went to was Revenge of the Fallen on opening night in a single-screen renovated theater that was THX certified. I have never experienced slam that powerful in a theater before or since. It was very loud, but not very harsh (I later learned that the hard drive was sent to the theater with instructions to play the film back louder than reference for the midnight showing prior to opening night, which was the one I went to). JSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKtheater Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 I frequent two Imax theaters, one in Buffalo and the other in Rochester. The Rochester theater has better seats, and a real I max screen which looks taller than wider. The Buffalo Imax is the same width but shorter, but the sound has always been better in Buffalo. Recently the Rochester theater was calibrated and now is the best Imax I have been to. I just watched Everest in Buffalo and during a storm from the movie you can clearly hear the two surround speakers Pop! A nice big crackle which could be blown or clipping. First time I have heard that in Imax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SME Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Great comments here! Does anyone think any movies are ever mixed with the system calibrated at a *higher* level than 85 dBC, even if by accident? I don't. So I think this is yet more evidence that most Blu-ray remixes are actually louder than theatrical mixes in most cases. While you can argue that "director intent" enters the picture a lot of the time, I don't think many directors intend for all the dialog to be heard at unrealistically high levels. If it sounds people people are shouting when they are obviously not, then you are probably playing at too high SPL! Listen to the dialog and adjust the level to find the true "reference level" and let everything else follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeDuke Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Great comments here! Does anyone think any movies are ever mixed with the system calibrated at a *higher* level than 85 dBC, even if by accident? I don't. So I think this is yet more evidence that most Blu-ray remixes are actually louder than theatrical mixes in most cases. While you can argue that "director intent" enters the picture a lot of the time, I don't think many directors intend for all the dialog to be heard at unrealistically high levels. If it sounds people people are shouting when they are obviously not, then you are probably playing at too high SPL! Listen to the dialog and adjust the level to find the true "reference level" and let everything else follow. So in what I have put in bold, you are basically saying that when the movie is mixed for the theater, that they don't crank it up on purpose, but when it goes to the mix the BR disk, they crank up the volume? Is that what you are saying? In my room I can't get close to 0db or reference level in that sense. I typically do what you suggest. I just turn it up to where the dialog sounds the best and I just leave it there and have the chips fall where they may. Sometimes I go beyond that though. As I said before, I even asked for this. I just wanted a full range sound track that was not clipped or does not sound horrible. This seems to be that way. People say the bass is there, it's just at a low level and all you have to to is turn it up more than you normally do. I can live with that. Edit: Sorry for the double quote, but I can't figure out how to delete that post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaller Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Hi AllWhen I first played Age of Ultron @ my normal listening level the of -15, it was very weak, I increased the volume to -6 an the films audio was spot on.The dialogue was clear, the dynamics strong, and the bass was the some of best I have heard on my set-up. I was looking to up-grade my subwoofer (SVS 20-39PCI ), but after hearing the bass when the Hulk was slammed into the building that was under construction, my need for a new subwoofer was somewhat reduced. Great overall sound. I posted the above on the AVS forum, and got comments that I must have revewed the movie on a Bose Lifestlye set-up. That my system could not reslove what is good are bad. Most posts here seem to be a alot more grounded. Not if am right you must be wrong. I do agreed with 95% of what Ralph Potts reported in his review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toe Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 Just got done with this and wanted to say thanks for all the info provided here about this track needing a simple volume bump and I enjoyed the hell out of it! I usually watch first run movies at -1, so I decided to bump this up 9db to +8 which seemed just right and was treated to a very loud, but clean, dynamic audio presentation with hard hitting and potent bass! My only complaint is I would have liked a bit more low end support below 30hz, but this was a minor complaint for me all things considered and I thought this was a great HT audio ride! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmercy Posted October 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 You need to try the BEQ... JSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toe Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 You need to try the BEQ... JSS I noticed the BEQ (which looks great!) and I would love to check it out! Don't have the capability to do it with the equipment I have right now unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemX Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Hi AllWhen I first played Age of Ultron @ my normal listening level the of -15, it was very weak, I increased the volume to -6 an the films audio was spot on.The dialogue was clear, the dynamics strong, and the bass was the some of best I have heard on my set-up. I was looking to up-grade my subwoofer (SVS 20-39PCI ), but after hearing the bass when the Hulk was slammed into the building that was under construction, my need for a new subwoofer was somewhat reduced. Great overall sound. I posted the above on the AVS forum, and got comments that I must have revewed the movie on a Bose Lifestlye set-up. That my system could not reslove what is good are bad. Most posts here seem to be a alot more grounded. Not if am right you must be wrong. I do agreed with 95% of what Ralph Potts reported in his review. Welcome to the forum The SVS won't compare to some of the multi-driver, big-power systems that people on here own (how can it with just one driver!) but personally speaking, I like the SVS stuff - it does a good job for a good price. None of the SVS will be able to play the full bass bandwidth (3-120Hz) at Reference but if you've not experienced such playback, you can't really miss what you haven't had! If you are near anyone on here with a massive system who is willing to host, I would strongly encourage you to go and experience the slight madness of a large system - then you can join us on the slippery slope too lol Check out the Movies with Bass thread for some graphs and data of all the different films that are available! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaller Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Hi Memx Where can I hear a massive system? What can I add to my current system to get a taste of what I am missing. Thank you for your understandable reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemX Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Hi Memx Where can I hear a massive system? What can I add to my current system to get a taste of what I am missing. Thank you for your understandable reply. Are you based in the US? It is a big place so those who do have bigger systems are quite spread out, I believe, but perhaps post up your State and someone local might chime in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrodynamic Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Could have had better ULFE but overall I liked the movie and at least there is a good bit of info below 30 Hz even though there is not much below 20'ish Hz. Slightly OT I hope Jurassic World rocks out the deep extension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunkePer Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 I won't vote as I only watched it on iTunes and without my subwoofer (can only use that monster occasionally because of the neighbours), but I thought the movie was terrible. First one I liked; solidly scripted, well directed and lots of fun. This one was just dumb, messy and tried way to hard to top the spectacle of the first one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaeel Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Huh. I thought they both were a little silly. The first one didn't wow me in any way. While both the plots are the typical blow up the world cliche's, it is a marvel movie after all, I thought the 2nd was a lot better for action and story lines. Neither of these will win any Oscar's but that's not what anyone watches these for. I wish they would cut out some of the humor. It seems like they try to make these into a comedy too much. Either way as others mentioned the bass is much better and like everyone else I cranked it up. I watched it at 5 above reference and it sounded perfect. 4 and a buy for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audiofan1 Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 Just a level bump necessary to enjoy it but still a 3 as it could have been better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgans316 Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 I don't have any major problems with bass and ULF. However the effects sounded muddy having any impact despite dialing up the volume by 8dB. I am surprised this gets a 5 stars for dynamics. Take Ant-Man or Iron Man or even the first part, the action scenes have a nice impact pushing your systen which is seldom seen here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SME Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 I'm way late to this game, but I just watched this tonight. It got played about +6 above average, at close to theatrical reference. The dynamics in this presentation were tremendous, both in a microdynamic and macrodynamic sense. The difference between "quiet" and "loud" scenes seemed to be more about peak levels than average levels. The action scenes had remarkably low average levels, sufficient for my wife and I to converse, even though the scenes were chock full of effects that sounded and felt very powerful. Nevertheless, much of the supporting content was presented at a much lower level. This was done in a way that seemed slightly unnatural, but nonetheless, I accepted it as stylistic thing. Varying SPL was used as a means of exaggerating contrast. I will agree though that the soundtrack was not flawless. One scene early in the movie (a quiet scene depicted indoors), I noticed that the ambiant sounds (people talking in the background) did not sound at all convincing. It wasn't just a matter of there being no surround. Even a stereo recording of a restaurant or something would have had a very spacious quality that seemed lost in that scene. I'm sure there were other "glitches" like this in the mix such as this, but overall I like what was done here a lot. I also look forward to a reviewing with BEQ once I have a worthy sub system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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