Bossobass Dave Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 No, it's not the same graph. There is more than one graph. Point is you claim +12dB over the other system. We have accurate measurements of the LMS-U FR in 4 sizes of enclosure, including if/any compression at 14.5 Hz with max burst and sine sweep input. We have your busted mic FR of the ported sub with no data showing +12dB with zero compression with any input signal or methodology. That gets a total pass yet you can nitpick Nick on whatever regarding his product, based on actual dependable data. Now, if you don't get the point of the mention of this ^^^ situation, give it up and listen to some loud stuff >15 Hz through those slot ported dumpsters. Make the comparison using the actual product and report back. Otherwise, you're making no sense, peppered with condescension and insults, you know, your usual posting habits. You're comparing 10 Hz test results and ignoring everything else? You filter 10 Hz out completely as irrelevant, but it's all that matters when you compare the drivers? And, no, Rob, I have no idea what you mean by the SL quips. I have compared logarithmic subwoofer FR in both log and linear scale to the SL caps a time or two, but hundreds of times? No. And, the charge that one can't compare the two is nonsense. If you mean something else, spit it out in English. Your reading comprehensions sucks. I said, for example, that when I called your posted ported vs sealed BS your answer is "You hate ported subs". Get it? No, I'm not mad, just pissing on your ported vs sealed crapola that you insert into your Nick-bashing because you're the resident LMS-U worshipper, just under DIYSG. It's fun, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyt Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Dunno why I'm getting into this, but it's kind of fun anyway. After going through my history and digging out the measurement laptop, I see I took another measurement after you pointed out the first was no good. Good eye there actually, props for that. This measurement was after pulling the enclosures further outside and testing from further away. These were the results, hence the 12db gain claims. Yes, same broken mic. I was using this mic since I had a calibration for it from Herb at CSL before it met its woeful end. This is actually the graph I have in the post here on the build. I likely copied the wrong one to AVS, and I'll update that. This test demonstrated that while the frequency response was horked, the measurements were still linear without compression. And here they are overlayed As for Ricci's results, 50hz+ 6db difference, what you'd expect with the difference in displacement. 16.5hz 6db difference, 12.5hz and 10hz 3db difference, and that's with a massive enclosure/baffle advantage. And no, I don't filter 10hz out as irrelevant, but a bit below there, imho, it becomes irrelevant. As for insults and condescension, I think you take that trophy. I guess everyone who disagrees with you is a moron and all the gear that you don't sell is a piece of shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaeel Posted July 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Ding ding ding! End of the first round and we give that one to Dave simply because his posts were longer. Damn you guys take subs seriously. Can't we go back to the old days where Rob had his sealed Ultras and a good back and Ethan and I did shootouts with varying FR's on the subs. Dave I'm still here..... just working man. Honestly I haven't watched a movie or cranked the subs in weeks. Trying to get my pasty ass in the sun on the weekends and spending time with the wife. I'll give ya a call later this week if that works for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKtheater Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Hey, I used to have Chase subs flat to 7hz at reference but it only worked because my room was magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaeel Posted July 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Forgot all about the Chase subs hahaha. Man we were too nice to Craig. Those were some ugly ass subs. When I think how bad that 18.1 looked and compare it to the Raptors...wow. Side by side it would look like I built it with spare parts lying around a burnt down Megatronics store. Ahh the good ole days James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKtheater Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 It's all good. Yeah they were not pretty but mine were covered. My 4 LLT's with the eD drivers were worse. They still had dirt stains from the sonotube company LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaeel Posted July 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Hahaha that's the pros of having an AT screen. I know I'm glad the Raptors and screen cover my hack job on the wedge foam I put on the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossobass Dave Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Maybe you've been dipping too far into your own koolaid supplies. Hopefully you've at least figured out how to get speclab to provide accurate results, instead of using it to show how flat your response is when it was adding 3db per decade. Rofl, ok, totally doesn't matter. Your measurements previously supported by SL are all unaffected and continue to hold water. Ok. "This shows a pair of LMS ultra will Trounce the SI24". Silly, yeah? Did Nick appoint you his white knight or did you fill this role on your own? Are you just upset because the ported resurgence cuts into your margins? At least that I could understand. u mad? u mad. Build some more sonotube subs you'll feel better. You know very well what I mean when I reference the hundreds of SL graphs you've posted where you try to show linear frequency response using a tool that was not producing linear results. My reading comprehension is fine btw, perhaps work on the incoherent babble. Keep on drinking that kool-aid. Dunno why I'm getting into this, but it's kind of fun anyway. As for insults and condescension, I think you take that trophy. I guess everyone who disagrees with you is a moron and all the gear that you don't sell is a piece of shit. OK, after all of that posturing, insults and deflection drivel, maybe we can get to the reason you're in this thread? You claimed, and continue to claim +12dB more output going from sealed to ported. More specifically, the claim is cherry-picking a single frequency, 14.5 Hz. The measurement you show to verify this difference shows actually a difference of +6dB, averaged from 10-31.5 Hz, where there is a difference, and ignoring <10 Hz and non-linearities. Previously, you posted a single sine wave at 10 Hz test, in-room, showing 127.5dB with <10% THD with the sealed version of the system. That would translate, in-room, to at least 128dB at 14.5 from the sealed system with, presumably, less THD than at 10 Hz. Simple math demands 140dB at 14.5 Hz from the ported version of the system, in-room for the claimed increase in output potential to be true. Since that's around +25-30dB more than your posted graph(s) show in a sweep, in-(your)room, at 14.5 Hz and 40-50dB at 10 Hz, is it unreasonable for me to question your claim without data? That's a rhetorical question. Of course, we all take you at your word regarding the veracity of your output results of the sealed system until the benefit of doubt is abused. I submit that the average difference is much closer to +6dB and nowhere near +12dB. That is from a consensus of ported v sealed test results from reliable sources over the years. And, of course, the absence of difference in the first 2 octaves goes without saying, subjective preferences notwithstanding. Honestly, if you think I'm being unreasonable, please just ignore the post and we'll both move on. But, if you insist on the knight who drinks Kool-Aid while he frets margins and resurgence, spouting silly things that make people rofl while using sonotube to build subwoofers, thinking every other subwoofer is a piece of shit stuff, expect that sort of response in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKtheater Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Sanway BEQ my matrix vs Inuke 6000 Clone My Sanway is in for repair so I picked this up to have bass in the meantime. I am not sure if the levels in spec lab were the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKtheater Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Oops, that was 9 channel stereo for the Inuke, here it is in 7.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shredhead Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 I am not sure if the levels in spec lab were the same. Looks like you are running the old settings in the Sanway screen cap. On the waveform amplitude bar it is set to 60% of ADC swing and the inuke one is set to 100%. Was the offset different as well for the 2 comparisons? Did you have the speclab cal file loaded for the older Sanway screen cap as well as the new one? When you get your Sanway back, before you hook it up do the 2 comparison shots without moving the mic or changing the input sensitivity. Match the amplitude of the waveform for the scene as close as possible for the 2 amps and you'll have your comparison with no doubts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKtheater Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 I was just looking at extension. The sanway can trip my 20 amp breaker and the Inuke can not. I will calibrate the sanway the same way and leave everything as is and run it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossobass Dave Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Just watched Insurgent. The rental copy has DD 5.1 only, so I don't know if the BR will be different, but I found the soundtrack to have zero ULF. LMK what you guys find when you watch it. Adam and James, SL caps, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastAudio Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Just watched Insurgent. The rental copy has DD 5.1 only, so I don't know if the BR will be different, but I found the soundtrack to have zero ULF. LMK what you guys find when you watch it. Adam and James, SL caps, please? Probably watching that tonight. From what the others are saying, the first 3/4 of the movie is filtered at 20hz, then all of a sudden the last 1/4 is chock-full apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infrasonic Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Nube posted the PvA and stated that the last 1/4 or so of the movie had much more ULF. Did you not get any ULF towards the end, Dave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossobass Dave Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Nube posted the PvA and stated that the last 1/4 or so of the movie had much more ULF. Did you not get any ULF towards the end, Dave? No, you're seeing it and these are right off the SW out jack. White = nothing. There's that eentsy-weeny bit at 10-15 Hz in part of one scene, but that's all I got. There's nothing of note <15 Hz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastAudio Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Very odd then. The PVA shows some decent presence below 20hz even... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infrasonic Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 No, you're seeing it and these are right off the SW out jack. White = nothing. There's that eentsy-weeny bit at 10-15 Hz in part of one scene, but that's all I got. There's nothing of note <15 Hz. Thanks. I have not seen the movie and have no idea how many chapters there are. Wondered if you just didn't graph anything towards the end or something. Still getting used to your latest color graph but I like it. Much more detailed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SME Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Maybe all the bass is on the DD track? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infrasonic Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Oh man, you're right. Wouldn't be the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKtheater Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 I will buy this today and run some graphs, it has been a while since I have. My new Hot tub is finally up and running and have spending lots of time in it! BTW, went to MI rogue Nation at Imax and I loved the movie. I hope Cruise keeps the bass a coming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaeel Posted August 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Just watched Divergent since I hadn't seen it yet and next is Insurgent. I'll see what's on my Redbox disc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaeel Posted August 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2015 I watched this and there was hardly any bass at all on my DD rental. Just a smidge more than the first one. The one scene did have some lows but this is it: 15hz brick wall on mine too Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatshaft Posted August 8, 2015 Report Share Posted August 8, 2015 Here's a screen capture with the 7.1 audio from Insurgent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossobass Dave Posted August 8, 2015 Report Share Posted August 8, 2015 Something strange here. My cap is off the OPPO SW out, which has virtually zero roll off. That leaves the Edirol interface, which is flat to 4 Hz. What disc and audio version did you use for the cap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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