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BOSSOBASS Raptor system 3


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#1 Madaeel

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 06:05 PM

Hey guys I couldn't get the files to fit on this forum so here's a link to the thread on AVS. If anyone knows a work around please lmk. I didn't wanna scale the files down anymore cuz the pics of the subs are too gorgeous. Anyway hope you like it!

 

Dave and Paul....once again no words. Unbelievable. Thanks for everything. I hope soon I can fly down there and hear this on a suspended floor. :o

 

http://www.avsforum....system-3-a.html


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#2 nube

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 06:36 PM

Totally impressed!  Very nice setup.  Is that a quad Raptor 3 setup, with two stacks of two in each corner?  Wow!  What speakers are you using?

 

Have you written up a list of your signal chain and its components?  I'm curious how you're powering everything, and what part of the system is causing the gradual rolloff below 10Hz.  In general, the FR looks very good!  What are your impressions of the overall sound, and the feeling of real full-bandwidth bass?

 

Would love to see more pics of the room, and some individual pics of the drivers in their cabs - I assume these are using the new high-surround drivers Dave sourced and showed pics of here and elsewhere, right?


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#3 Bossobass Dave

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 07:49 PM

Adam, Jazzy (the Mrs) and Elena (daughter) were the most hospitable and fun family Paul and I have ever had the pleasure of staying with. When my wife asked how everything went, I summed it up in one sentence:

 

"And we laughed, and we laughed and we laughed."

 

Great food, very nicely appointed home and very comfortable lodgings.

 

Adam's huge screen is a treat. The PQ was awesome. The only flick we watched all the way through was Oblivion and the experience was one for the books. The 7 sat speakers are physically unassuming but never sounded a bit stressed. They sounded very smooth and the soundfield was excellent. 

 

I don't remember what triggered the thought during SL graphing of scenes but I said that I always wondered WTF a Skadoosh was. Ethan (Adam's bro) had KFP on his HTPC so he spooled it up. He began playing a good bit before the famous S moment and I was holding my digital RS meter near the mic. The peaks were reading 114-115dB and I was wondering what all the fuss was about this movie when I heard "Skadoosh".

 

I admit we were listening with the subs bumped because, well, you know, we had to make sure there was headroom in the system. The meter read 120dB. Notably, we had used a single EQ filter in the Sherbourne AVR centered at 20 Hz and pulled down -6dB, so had we used no EQ the meter would have maxed out on that scene. I took your posted SL cap of the scene, Abraham, and pasted it onto our mic'd version from that day. Frequency/time settings are a bit different but the difference between the max hit at 25 Hz and the blip just below 5 Hz is exactly the same on the color scale:

 

1201a3d327badc178636d2ffd0b2e7c7.jpg

 

Adam's FR had a dip at around 105 Hz and his Sherbourne AVR added to the sig chain roll off, but the cap shows everything there except for the 1 Hz content. If Adam had the Oppo player-as-processor, as I do at home, he'd be flat to 3 Hz and the system has at least 10dB of headroom above reference in his room, which is superbly constructed for low end.

 

I enjoyed seeing what I've been saying for a decade pop up on the SL screen. The SEQSS was dead quiet and the new A14K amp is among the best amplifiers ever made. Paul wasn't thrilled with the noise floor of the Sherbourne amp because that's one of his things, but he said that Adam's signal chain is gain matched to near perfection. No clipping in, no clipping out and noise at its minimum.

 

31391a84ce42c99a3ce25836b3ff5069.jpg

 

We beefed up every weak point in the clone amps after extensively testing many of them. We increased the case size, more than doubled the heat sink area, upped the capacitor rez by 143%, modded the power supply by adding additional cooling to the new transformer and high end IGBTs, etc., etc.

 

Oh, and the 1/4" thick front panel and custom handles are pretty spiffy to look at as well. :wub:

 

Paul measured the A14K drawing 33.1 amps at 217 volts 7,240 watts when he measured the "entering the grid" scene from Tron and did the math using a top of the line Fluke DMM. That's with a nominal load of 3.4 ohms in bridged configuration. Impressive, if I say so myself. The voltage peak and current peak limiters allow the system to be taken to within an inch of its life and that's what we did when playing "9" scenes. :lol:

 

The new drivers, tweaked for the final time and Adam got the first 8 of them, I couldn't be happier with. 3 Aluminum faraday rings, 30 mm Xmax (conservatively) and a few good things I'll keep to myself for now, sounded as clean as I've heard any system play with no audible distress with the fingers plugged into the ears at 6" test.

 

In fact, as a testament to what high end room construction means to reproduction, I was jealous at how noticeably cleaner Adam's room sounded than my window-rattling, door-banging, picture-buzzing room. I told my wife I want to knock out the windows and put glass block in the openings and get me some of those 140# super-sealed doors Adam has.

 

She said.... :rolleyes:

 

Oh, and the photographer was absolutely gorgeous... eat your hearts out fellas:

 

949cfe46d153c22b0d5b054b80df9bb9.jpg487e1aff11cc783118fbda1bc30b0d88.jpg


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#4 Madaeel

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 09:44 PM

Thx Abraham!

For speakers I'm using JBL studio L series. It's the LC2 center for the LCR and L820's for side and back surrounds and I also have JBL L810's for the heights, but they're not being used because the pre/pro only does 7.1. I love JBL's and always have, it's just their cheaper lines use those titanium laminate tweeters which can be pretty bright. These are pure titanium in a waveguide so their a good bit smoother/mellow. Dave and Paul loved how they sound and we watched at or close to reference on every scene and they sound so clean as Dave said. I was thinking of getting some horns later but they both said they'd keep what I got. Works for me.

As far as power goes I have the Emo XPA-5 and XPA-2. Those amps are on their own 20A outlet and then the 14K is on it's own 30A line. I didn't trip any breakers on scenes from "9" which were definitely the loudest/most taxing on the amps so I'm thrilled.

It's funny because I know you know with your two DO subs, beautiful subs btw, what a difference it is. You had a Captivor(s) before right?? Well I now know what Dave has been saying all these years:it's a HUGE difference. For everyone out there that says you can't tell or it's not worth it blah blah blah, they haven't heard a system with little roll-off down low. It's simply amazing. Every movie is entirely different. To feel that 13hz note in TIH and the chopper landing in Oblivion is awesome. Even my wife notices already. We watched only Oblivion and 300: RoE so far, working 12's all week, and when we watched 300 she said "where's the bass" so I looked it up here and sure enough you said it's mostly 30hz and rolls off sharp....well I can tell now!!

I'll get some more pics up of the room but Lanche(Elena) has to resize them for me first and she's doing so many damn weddings right now. As soon as she does I'll get em up though.

#5 Madaeel

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 10:15 PM

Well Dave you and Paul were the best guests we've ever had. We honestly didn't want you guys to leave. Though we probably would've drank wayyyyy too much if you stayed. ;)

Thanks for that pic of the amp and SEQSS Dave. I need to get those sized asap. Those two pieces are amazing. "9" was downright scary in my room and actually Paul jumped back from the couch because it jumped so bad. The amp was getting close to its limits there but only because of the VPL. I can't remember where Dave said it was set to.

Ethan and I both wished we could see the drivers, ya know front-firing, until we saw the Raptors.....those two drivers facing each other are a joy to watch. Only "9" brought them close to kissing each other in my room though. Every else was a breeze for that system. I can't wait to watch every movie from 4 stars up!

#6 Bossobass Dave

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 03:36 AM

Elena's all that. I've tried so many times to get a pic from this relative angle and never have been able to capture the essence and she did it the first try. One of my favorites from her...

 

36a8b304d000a209f44897c9a0179e48.jpg

 

And she did indeed threaten me as a comeback, like a boss. What's not to love? :ph34r:



#7 Madaeel

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 04:20 AM

Man wtf I didn't even see that pic! That looks awesome! I definitely gotta get her to take some pics of it on a white wall.

Btw she gets that from her mama.😁

#8 laugsbach

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 11:29 AM

Congrats again Adam!

 

It is so nice to see a  proper, sealed system again...too many ported builds on AVS at the moment.


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#9 Madaeel

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 03:41 PM

Thanks Larry and yeah I agree. Sealed for ULF is all you need. It feels like the whole couch is sitting on transducers....and this is on concrete. I don't need ported subs to get that affect. :D



#10 wth718

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 08:12 PM

Is your room on a slab or suspended floor?



#11 Madaeel

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 11:22 PM

Slab. It feels like an earthquake down there with the Raptors though.

#12 MemX

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 09:31 PM

Sweeeet B)

 

Love those response graphs!

 

The amp is a re-worked Clone with all the unreliable bits fixed?  Tempting... :ph34r:



#13 nube

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 04:22 PM

Thanks for the info Adam & Dave!  Good thing that 14K is on a 30A line - it's pulling massive amounts for transients.

 

Need more pics of the room and this new, awesome kit.  I'm especially curious about seating arrangement, and total room + equipment costs.



#14 Madaeel

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 04:25 AM

MemX I relabeled the graphs too. The first one in the photo is B:LA but I had the top graph labeled wrong it's actually 9. That movie scared the shit outta me and so did watching TIH today before work. I called Dave to tell him too because I just start laughing when the sonic cannons went off....I never felt anything like that before and I still had more left in the tank. That 13hz note is brutal. I'm a little scared to watch Lone Survivor...

 

No problem Abraham. Actually I can't wait to get a laptop and mic so I can get REW and Speclab up and running. Hopefully I can help you out some.

 

Yah I asked Dave what I needed for that amp and he said if I could do 30A that'd be great so I have two dedicated 30A lines. There's a BOSSOBASS FP9K with four SI 15's hooked up to it in that room too. :D

 

Yah I gotta get Lanche(Elena) to send me pics she took of the basement. Hopefully she can take some with the Raptors in the room this time.

 

Seating is just a sectional 10' wide and total I think I have around $40k. Give or take.

 

 



#15 MemX

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 12:31 PM

'9' is an awesome film, I can watch it again and again - one just notices more details each time, and the soundtrack and PQ is phenomenal!  It's definitely not a kids cartoon!  lol

 

I am still somewhat unimpressed with TIH on my system. Going from your and others' responses, that means I have some work to do on EQ...



#16 lefthandluke

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 04:13 PM

congrats again adam...outstanding job!!

 

bosso I've been reading your take on all things bass for years now...as in any community you gain respect with time spent interacting.

 

just like to say thanks for your contributions...

 

and that raptor is just BADASS...beautiful work

 

can I have one...huh, can I?



#17 Madaeel

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 04:35 PM

@MemX

Hmm. You mean on your new system?? I can't remember watching that scene on a ported system and not being impressed. That scene has a LOT of bass at all frequencies. Where are you located?

 

'9' scared Paul when we were demoing it. He had his keyboard on the back of the couch and the very last time we played the scene he jumped back because the couch moved so much it startled him. After watching that like 5x that's the only time Jazzy was not too thrilled haha. 

 

@Luke

Thanks again Luke. Yes Dave's work is simply amazing. Between him and Paul they know what they're doing to say the least. Badass sums it up.



#18 Bossobass Dave

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 06:42 PM

congrats again adam...outstanding job!!

 

bosso I've been reading your take on all things bass for years now...as in any community you gain respect with time spent interacting.

 

just like to say thanks for your contributions...

 

and that raptor is just BADASS...beautiful work

 

can I have one...huh, can I?

 

Thanks for the much appreciated comments.

 

Unfortunately, the forums are mostly a platform for ID manufacturers to sell their wares. The obvious result of that is that there is mostly a bunch of baloney posted that supports the strong points of the budget systems they offer. That part of it never bothered me. What is bothersome about all of that is that the ID principals, either directly or through their shill posters, give information that basically tries to explain why anything their products can't do is not worth doing.

 

I've never used any forum to sell anything. I've just posted the basic formula to achieve the task at hand. One of the important parts of the equation is amplifier power, which I'll post about after this post when I get a minute because Adam does indeed have the first true Bossobas A14K in the wild and it's an amazing piece of hardware and value, IMHO.

 

Recently, one of my least favorite forum posters, Tom Vodhanl, has come back with his usual tripe. He claims to have more experience measuring and interpreting subwoofer data than "all the so-called experts on this (AVS) forum". That implies that everyone else on the forums is a so-called expert, but he is an actual expert. He uses the same formula for evading being called out on such outrageously false claims that he used a decade ago when he was with SVS. He drops industry names, usually ones who have little to do with the subject, he accuses the caller-out of having an axe to grind with a personal vendetta against him and he uses that platform to discredit the actual pertinent information.

 

When AVS deleted one of my posts and warned me that I should report him and not reply to his nonsense or suggested how I should post, I decided that I'm not willing to accept those new world order guidelines for posting in a public forum. I've said everything I care to say on the subject, many, many times. It's time for me to move on and leave the sub forums to the real experts.

 

In any case, the bottom line is always the results.

 

I use only actual soundtrack source as test input and only measured in-room at the listening position data for evaluation. This is possible through the cheap availability of massive computing power and extremely well-written, complex software like REW and Spectrumlab, both of which are free for the downloading.

 

When you can send the electronic signal directly off the recording to SL for accurate interpretation through no less that 3 metrics and directly compare that content to the version of same presented by your subwoofer system to a lab grade audio measurement rig at your seats, there is nothing left to test or ramble on about.

 

You'll be able to scrutinize the result and easily detect harmonic distortion, group delay (which is directly proportional to FR by a formula), FR non-linearity, bandwidth integrity, transient response and clipping.

 

With simple loopback measurements you can accurately measure your signal chain, piece-by-piece and in toto.

 

When I made the claim that aggressive limiters infinitely change the in-room response by playback level, it's as simple to verify as using a reference soundtrack scene at progressive levels through SL.

 

Honestly, if someone had told me that 10 years ago, I would have been instantly ecstatic for the heads up and forever grateful for saving me the years it took until I stumbled upon the information and began using it to tweak my system. Instead, it's met with baloney that it isn't so because ID sub folks love to preach that their little bang-for-buck sub is capable of 120dB playback or, more recently, that their system "handled HTTYD at well above reference level with no problem". How simple is a statement like that to prove?

 

Extremely simple.

 

f9f2adb63973388ee77461c260c9b2fc.jpg

 

I've posted the result many times since the test was done but I never said the system handled the task "with no problem". It's a seriously huge problem to accurately reproduce that scene and many other scenes in that movie. It's clear by cursory examination that the scene has strong content to 2 Hz and that my system is only accurately handling the playback to just below 4 Hz. The in-room response also shows a slight dip between 10-16 Hz vs the content and that there is some slight FR non-linearity through the 100 Hz crossover region.

 

I only have thought over the years that there would have been one forum to which one could go to see data attached to claims and erasure of "...knocked the leaves off my neighbor across the street's trees..." kinda bullshit.

 

And, yes, you can have one. That was the who;e point of selling one to Adam.

 

I promised some folks that I would do a special limited run of Raptor System 2 and System 3 this year. I air freighted the final driver version for Adam's system so that he could have it up and running now that his HT is finally done. The rest of the drivers are in production and the rest of the systems are finished and waiting for the drivers to load them and test.

 

I've kept a list of those who were interested from the US and various other countries and will ping them. If anyone else is interested, they will be sold on a first-come, first-served basis at special pricing. Just go to www.bossobass.com and click the contact tab in the navigation bar and e-mail me for the details. Please, if you are outside the US, let me know what country/city they need to be shipped to for an accurate estimate of shipping costs, VAT, duties, etc.

 

The hits on my site, which I have never advertised, are pretty compelling. Besides the US, Canada and Great Britain, the order of hits to the site goes; Germany, Brazil, Norway, China. Other countries where I've sold Ravens and other subs, like Greece and the Caribean Islands show less hits, but it only takes one interested visitor.

 

Kyle and Josh: If that kind of info is not cool, just LMK and I'll delete it.

 

I redid the site to eliminate some stuff and add some stuff and to get the graphics right because I haven't updated the site for 2 years. For those who've been to the site before, empty your caches or just refresh each page when you go there for the first time since the update. And, please let me know if you catch errors in spelling, links, graphics, etc. I will appreciate that.

 

I also include a pic Elena took on the front page. I gave her credit and put a link to her site. Hits are always appreciated, if it's not too much bother.

 

Thanks again to Adam and his family. They are as cool as it gets and it was a trip Paul and I won't soon forget.


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#19 3ll3d00d

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 07:09 PM

I redid the site to eliminate some stuff and add some stuff and to get the graphics right because I haven't updated the site for 2 years. For those who've been to the site before, empty your caches or just refresh each page when you go there for the first time since the update. And, please let me know if you catch errors in spelling, links, graphics, etc. I will appreciate that.

minor points..

http://www.bossobass...cal (cont).html - the next page link at the end is not a link (presumably because that's the last page)

http://www.bossobass.../Technical.html

- the speclabanimation is missing at the bottom (just appears to be plain text "speclabanimation")

- the graphs on that page overlap with the text (on chrome)

overlap.JPG



#20 Bossobass Dave

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 08:05 PM

minor points..

http://www.bossobass...cal (cont).html - the next page link at the end is not a link (presumably because that's the last page)

http://www.bossobass.../Technical.html

- the speclabanimation is missing at the bottom (just appears to be plain text "speclabanimation")

- the graphs on that page overlap with the text (on chrome)

attachicon.gifoverlap.JPG

Awesome... got it!!

 

Thanks a lot. I'll update those when I get a minute.






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