jpmst3

Upcoming Testing Possibilities?

178 posts in this topic

Hey Guys!

 

Other candidates for the list"

 

lilmike's Lil' Wrecker

 

Is there another round coming soon?

 

Awesome site!!!!!  Great work!

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There is always more stuff coming...Commercial stuff, a couple Audioholics reviews, drivers, more sealed/ported/TH tests with various drivers and another one of my crazy projects I've been working on for over a year and a half. I would like to measure a LilWrecker or a THT but I'm not building/buying one just to do it and I don't see anyone sending me one of these.

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While I don't have the gear Josh has, I wrung out the LilWrecker pretty well in testing. I beat up the F-20 pretty well too. Compared to those two, I have literally pounded on the MicroWrecker, but I haven't measured "good" data yet. The MicroWrecker test mule has been through 4 separate days of measurements, each one taking it to well past the driver's thermal limit. Thus far, there have been issues with the temperature or the setting (or both), or something went wrong with the electronics. No data I'd hang my hat on just yet.

 

Josh and I have shared some data along the way. Unfortunately, nothing I do is really useful on this site. We use different gear and we use different methodologies in testing. Though I could change my approach to match what Josh does, I can't exactly afford the gear and software he uses, and even if I did, there would still be variations due to other factors, like elevation and measurement setting, cause I'm nowhere near Louisville. 

 

I'd be happy to adjust my approach in my future measurements to more closely parallel what Josh does if anyone thinks there's a benefit. CEA distortion testing is something I'd like to add, but so far, implementing it in REW is a bit cumbersome. As far as the other items? It's not too hard to adjust the drive level to measure 1 watt into the DCR, and I can certainly measure at 2M groundplane. 

 

One of these days, I will get back out to my shop, uncover the speaker-making tools, and start on my new builds. Lots of ideas...

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Mike,

Really the major costs are in the program to run CEA which is like $750. Otherwise you need the biggest honking amp you can find and a decent spl calibrator for the mic. The rest of the components aren't too bad individually, a decent sound card, microphone, cables, dmm, dcx2496 or similar, etc...But it all adds up.

 

If you ever wanted to format your measurements to match the ones here it wouldn't be difficult and I'd be willing to help out.

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Mike,

Really the major costs are in the program to run CEA which is like $750. Otherwise you need the biggest honking amp you can find and a decent spl calibrator for the mic. The rest of the components aren't too bad individually, a decent sound card, microphone, cables, dmm, dcx2496 or similar, etc...But it all adds up.

 

If you ever wanted to format your measurements to match the ones here it wouldn't be difficult and I'd be willing to help out.

 

As I'm in the early part of a remodel project that will consume every spare dollar I have for the next 4 years or so, I can't drop the coin on the software at the moment. If I recall - you use some custom scripts and a graphics and acquisition package that looks super cool. 

 

I have mics and an SPL calibrator. I don't have a VI box, so no high-power impedance sweeps. As far as amps, what I have is bigger than the drivers I own, but to be honest - that isn't saying all that much. 

 

Definitely interested in the formatting, as well as adjusting my technique to more closely parallel what you're doing though. We can take this to email s or PMs to discuss the protocols if you want. I'm not going to me measuring much any time soon though. I've read the "know-How" section of the site, so it looks like I'm on the right track, with just a few adjustments needed.

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Mike have you seen how much I use the VI Box? Hint...It is not much. It is a whole other setup and calibration from the other tests and it is yet another brutal torture session for the drivers. I still plan to use it but sparingly on certain systems. Plus it is a PITA getting it to work with REW. I really need LinearX to take better advantage of it and that is another large chunk of $$$.

 

Overall my game plan with DIY drivers and such long term is to only test most drivers in a basic capacity with a sealed test which is enough for the easy comparison with other drivers performance. Then move on to others. For certain pro drivers which really are intended for bass reflex apps they will get tested in a standard BR box also. The goal is to identify a driver of each size that performs really well in most aspects and sets the bar. For example the LMS 18". Then this "bar" driver will be tested more thoroughly in more types or sizes of enclosures, with VI box, used for other tests not related to one system specifically, etc. That way the performance of the "bar" driver in a variety of situations can be compared and the results can be used to make well educated guesses as to how other drivers tested in only the standard sealed or vented enclosures would perform in the other alignments that the "bar" driver was tested in. So instead of having to test every driver in a 16Hz tune 9 cube dual 18" PR alignment We will be able to test just one the "bar" driver in that system and compare its change in performance in the PR enclosure vs the standard sealed enclosure and that will tell us a great deal about how the rest of the drivers would perform in the PR enclosure.

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That makes complete sense. A testing day is long enough without adding in high power impedance.

 

Glad I don't "need" the VI box. I want to measure impedance at more than flea-power levels though - the shifts with increasing displacement may help explain the changes in observed frequency response. I can do that with a homemade rig though, I have several of those now. 

 

I'll adjust a few things next time I test a cabinet, then share the data with you. Hope I can provide enough to work with. 

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Any other suggestions for commercial subs, pro subs or drivers to be tested?

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They're not cheap, but have you looked at the new Fi SP4 and Team series at all? Basically, they look like Fi motors on TC baskets. I'd love to see a Klippell of the motor linearity. 

 

As far as pro drivers? Some of the new B&C drivers look pretty nice, but the good ones have price tags that match their specs...

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Commercial subs: JTR Captivator, Orbit Shifter, Seaton Submersive (i know there are variants of all these, whichever you choose)

 

DIY Drivers: Mach5 'Phallus', Aura NS18, SI 24", Dayton Ultimax15

 

Pro Drivers: AE TD18h+ (hopefully repaired and then fully tested ;))

 

Sorry. I know these aren't cheap but these are just things I know I'm interested in that I can think of.

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As far as the Fi drivers I would like to look at those but I suspect they will perform like the rest have. Huge inductance hump with high levels of 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion. Also makes it difficult to design accurate higher order systems with them without actual testing. They are rugged with plenty of stroke but they do not seem to like doing deep bass without a lot of HD which is also partly due to the very stiff suspensions. In car or a small room that may not be anything to worry about though. Seems to be typical of most of the heavy duty car subs not just Fi though.

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A birdy told me the prototype LMS-R2 will be ready for testing soon. I'll try and get a beta version here from TC. Keep fingeres crossed.

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A birdy told me the prototype LMS-R2 will be ready for testing soon. I'll try and get a beta version here from TC. Keep fingeres crossed.

 

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Commercial subs: JTR Captivator, Orbit Shifter, Seaton Submersive (i know there are variants of all these, whichever you choose)

 

DIY Drivers: Mach5 'Phallus', Aura NS18, SI 24", Dayton Ultimax15

 

Pro Drivers: AE TD18h+ (hopefully repaired and then fully tested ;))

 

Sorry. I know these aren't cheap but these are just things I know I'm interested in that I can think of.

 

 

^ This ... good stuff, especially the Orbit Shifter. Although I'm an IB/multiple sealed dude, I suspect the Orbit Shifter is really something special, whereas a properly blended pair would likely please even the most hearty appetite. The SpeakerPower amplifiers are a huge component of the success and subjective goodness that both Seaton and JTR enjoy. Those amps are everything most anyone wants in a sub amp. 

 

So yeah, like Infrasonic, I'm interested in the OS being tested too. I know full well what the SubM is capable of.

 

Again, I agree with the Utilimax, the SI 24", and the AE TD18h+

 

Admittedly, all that is a wish list and maybe tough to pull off, but it'd sure be interesting reading.  

 

 "prototype LMS-R2"  B) 

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LMS-R2 = less inductance?

 

JSS

 Yes, a lot less

 

It won't use the variable resistive coil as that is not developed as a product yet but its a 3" coil, copper over the poll, larger magnet.

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 Yes, a lot less

 

It won't use the variable resistive coil as that is not developed as a product yet but its a 3" coil, copper over the poll, larger magnet.

 Ahhhrrooo? Not variable coil? So is it not LMS tech anymore?

 

I'm cornfused. :P

 

Lol, guess I'll just wait til you get to play with it.

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Dang Mike you don't miss much do you?

 

Scott I believe that Kyle meant that the coil will not be his new linear design from the patent application but will still be the current variable LMT coil.

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Dang Mike you don't miss much do you?

 

Scott I believe that Kyle meant that the coil will not be his new linear design from the patent application but will still be the current variable LMT coil.

 

Ah. Gotcha. Thanks for the explanation.

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Dang Mike you don't miss much do you?

 

Scott I believe that Kyle meant that the coil will not be his new linear design from the patent application but will still be the current variable LMT coil.

 

I had a bit of help, I probably wouldn't have heard about it as quickly otherwise, but I do pay attention to patents, as one can learn a lot from them. Also used to spend a LOT more time talking speakers than I do now. Was hoping I'd see Kyle's patent put to good use sooner rather than later, because it is a FANTASTIC idea. Simply put, Kyle has "fixed" several of the issues with LMS coil and motor. 

 

Hoping that we can see the state of the art take a step forward, and sounds like there have been a few significant steps with this one. Also thrilled that there is some R&D taking place at TC. 

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Yeah I am hoping Kyle gets his protoype driver with his new coil tech done soon so I can play around with it but who knows when that will be. I don't know I guess the guy is just lazy it's not like he has anything going on. :D This new 15" TC driver has me interested too...

 

Here are some of the things that are definitely getting tested eventually (That I can talk about. :ph34r: ). Some of these have been on the agenda for years...

 

Sealed JBL 2242HPL

25Hz vented AE TD18H+ Apollo

Sealed AE TD18H+ Apollo

MTX 9515-44 tiny passive radiator box with dual 15" VMP's (18 and 30Hz tunings to correspond with typical HT and car audio tunes)

Extra small sealed LMS 5400 Ultra and larger sealed MTX 9515-44 tests (to collect data to have directly comparable very small sealed and medium sized sealed for each driver and use to evaluate the effects on output, distortion, sensitivity, etc...)

LMS 5400 Ultra dual 18" VMP passive radiator system with 18Hz and 30Hz tunings

BMS 18N862 Sealed

AE TD15M Apollo sealed and vented (need to build a 15" enclosure for vented.)

 

Additionally there are some "special" projects of mine that will be getting evaluated eventually. I also have a number of raw drivers on my want list to look at.

 

As far as commercial stuff it is up to Mark, Tom and Jeff on the subs that everyone seems to wants to see the data for (Yes I do correspond with all of them).  I would like to get something from Danley eventually. I would also like to look at one of Rythmik's sealed high power 15 systems, more of the low dollar $250-$600 range subs and I want to look at the Klipsch SW-115 eventually too as it is going for rather low prices on the net and is a bit of an unknown quantity in the $650-$900 range. A THT, F20 or other of Bill's or LilMike's bang for the buck designs would be fun also.

 

I also have a number of investigative things I would like to do like measuring the gain of at least a few more vehicles and rooms and doing some distortion measurements with push pull drivers versus push push.

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