bao Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Not really a bass specific question but i thought you guys may know the answer. I know it will depend on each movie but in general, for recent big budget sci-fi / action flicks, over the entire duration of the movie, what percent of the total sound (voices, special effects etc) comes out of center channel vs the other channels? I guess the percent will change depending on of its 5.1 or 7.1. Do you think < 30% is a reasonable answer for the center channel? thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmercy Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 It is extremely variable, but at minimum 30%. Very vague question though. Do you mean SPL, or significant storytelling content? If the latter, >90%. JSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bao Posted March 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 I guess i meant an SPL vs time graph. Total sound produced over the duration of the movie compared to the same graph for all the speakers combined (i.e. what percent is center of the total). thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infrasonic Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 50% or more would be my broad guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bao Posted March 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 ok - thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmercy Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Use REW's data logger and your receiver's RCA outs for each channel and see.... JSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmoney Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Well the recommendation is to get the overal FR graph between sub and center as flat as possible. Since it has the most content in movies. If you fr is flat with sw+c but slightly less flat with L+r+sw then that's ok. Take that for what it's worth though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infrasonic Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Yeah, that's kind of what I had done in my room. But my LCR's are all fully active with their own dedicated sub systems so that was pretty easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bao Posted March 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 My question came from a discussion on another forum - someone said 90% of sound comes out of center channel over the duration of a movie. If you take 7.2 and not 5.2, i find this hard to believe. But i have been wrong before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmercy Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 Like I said before, 90% of sound is a very vague statement. It needs to be qualified. JSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBFC Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 It also depends upon what codec and matrixing scheme you may be using. For instance, Dolby ProLogic IIX allows for "center width" adjustment in many processors/AVRs, which alters the amount of sound in the center channel. It also depends upon how recent the film is, as many older films, even when converted to multichannel, have very little content in the surrounds and have partially a phantom center fill. Regardless, I would still make the case for a center channel speaker which is the same (or closely matches) the mains. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infrasonic Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 ^^^^ Those adjustments are only available when using the 'music' modes which would not be recommended for use when watching movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 Honestly not a huge fan of center channels, I prefer just the fronts for most movies, What our other peoples opinions about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infrasonic Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 Out of principle I completely disagree with not using a center channel with movie content. I am of the opinion that whatever "center channel(s)" you have had experience with were either compromised from the beginning or not implemented properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmercy Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 No center channel = lost headroom and total output as the AVR processes the signal to not clip the L/R, as it now has to encode the most often overloaded channel into the 2nd most overloaded channels. No way around it. None. I heard the same arguments after ProLogic and then 5.1, how stereo was still better, and it may been have at first. Seeing as films are mixed in 5.1 or more now, at 16+bits, it just makes sense to replicate it, and not process the signal any more than necessary. JSS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOH Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Center channel, enormously important, absolutely indispensable. Aside from headroom, the phase issues, HRTF, etc; Small head movements = zero to little impact on performance Multiple listeners with any amount of lateral spread = zero to little impact I'm point source coaxial from ~180hz on up, the above reasons seem to possess even greater merit in our current seating scenario. Two-tiered, leather sofa seating, in front sofa we spread casually across multiple widths as the mood or occupancy dictates. Front row at 7'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcstyvie Posted April 4, 2014 Report Share Posted April 4, 2014 Center is an absolute must. Your home cinema is castrated without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEO Dan Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 It is totally possible to achieve high quality presentation with no center speaker; I've done it at home with conventional home speakers and on a larger scale outdoors with relatively low end PA speakers at widths approaching 20'. In my experience when the screen is large and the center channel is not centered behind the screen I find the presentation a letdown, that is I tend to look down at the speaker at the bottom of the screen. Even when I had a "good/expensive" center channel setup at the bottom center of the screen, it was there just for show. When you have mains that work well enough in stereo mode that you can produce a strong centered "image" in the auditory scene from any listening position, you can then get away with setting the center channel mode on the AVR to "none" or "phantom" to mix the center signal back into the mains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeamdman Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Years ago I was running a typical LCR with some Deftechs, but when I built some SEOS speakers, I ditched the center. I did that primarily because I couldn't fit a matching SEOS anywhere near the center since it was a way different size/shape than my old Deftech. I didn't really feel I was missing anything going "phantom" center... I've been running no center for several years now, but I'm upgrading my mains yet again, and I found a really good deal on a matching center so I pulled the trigger. However, I still have the same issue with where I'm going to put the dang thing, and now it's wayyyyyyy bigger (Yorkville U215).... I'm back to wondering if I even need a center? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeamdman Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 No center channel = lost headroom and total output as the AVR processes the signal to not clip the L/R, as it now has to encode the most often overloaded channel into the 2nd most overloaded channels. No way around it. None. I heard the same arguments after ProLogic and then 5.1, how stereo was still better, and it may been have at first. Seeing as films are mixed in 5.1 or more now, at 16+bits, it just makes sense to replicate it, and not process the signal any more than necessary. JSS. I have my mini 8x8 do the "combining", so according to the receiver, it's business as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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