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The Low Frequency Content Thread (films, games, music, etc)

Bass Movies Bass Movie Measurements Deep Bass Movies Bass Waterfall Graphs Bass Graphs

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#141 maxmercy

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 03:31 AM

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#142 maxmercy

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 03:31 AM

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Iron Man:

Level - 4 Stars (112.2dB composite)
Extension - 3 Stars (16Hz on Avg Graph)
Dynamics - 4 Stars (27.06dB) .
Execution - 4 Stars - Could have used some subterranean effects, this is a 30Hz movie with a little juice below. But overall nice track.

Overall - 3.75 Stars

Recommendation - Buy. This used to be one and still is one of the most well-regarded LF tracks out there, and a terrific film.

JSS

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#143 maxmercy

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 02:00 AM

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Iron Man 2:

Level - 4 Stars (111.94dB composite)
Extension - 4 Stars (14Hz)
Dynamics - 4 Stars (26.33dB)
Execution - 4 Stars - Again, 30Hz rolloff in use, like many films. Lack of high level stuff below ~25Hz, too bad. Good film, terrific soundtrack otherwise. Another 'might have been'.

Overall Rating - 4 Stars

Recommendation - Buy. It is a good sequel to Iron Man, and although essentially a 30Hz film, I think it is worth it.
 

JSS

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#144 maxmercy

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 12:24 PM

Wow,

1500 views. I will really have to get going on the tutorial so others can get in on the contributions with scene waterfalls/graphs.


JSS



#145 Bossobass Dave

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 01:13 PM

The Dark Knight:

Level - 2 Stars (262.03dBHz) This is not a mistake.
Extension - 5 Stars (2 Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (29dB) Highest Yet!
Execution - 4 Stars - More 10-20Hz effects would have been nice. Great soundtrack overall.

Overall Rating - 4 Stars

Recommendation - Buy

As soon as Bosso updates the graphics for TDK with the above ratings, I'll index it to the first post and copy the images here.

JSS


It's updated.

#146 maxmercy

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:10 AM

Indexed and images linked! No data tonight, sorry guys. Gonna get crackin' on it prob tomorrow eve....

By this weekend, hopefully Assassin's Bullet, Amazing Spider Man, Cabin in the Woods, and 9, and hopefully some more of the oldies, and then will work on a 'how-to' for scene caps. As the databass grows, some trends are appearing.....

JSS

#147 djbluemax1

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 05:21 PM

WOTW... check the new Title Block with rating system and tell me if it's OK or suggest a change...


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Hey Dave, I was just checking out these graphs again and had a couple of questions:
In the graphs for Chapters 4 and 5, there is much more intense coloration in the graph below 20Hz for the Chp 4 graph than the Chp 5 graph, but the peak traces at the top of the graphs appear very similar for 4 & 5? Any idea why that is? Based on the colors, I would have expected Chp 4 to show much higher Peak (and Average) activity, especially below 10Hz (of course for ULF, Chp 9 is still King Of The Hill).


Max

#148 Madaeel

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:27 PM

Good observation Max. They are very similar. I would expect them to be the same up until 20hz where Chap 4 should have a very noticeable increase. Also the average graph in Chap 4 is steady across the entire BW and then at 20hz drops off where it seems it should start to raise??

I also was looking at the TDK graphs and while it goes down to 2hz it doesn't do it that often and in the other graphs it barely goes below 20hz. I was just thinking it maybe should only be a 4 star in extension. Yes it goes down low, but not very often and most of it is centered around 40-50hz. When you compare it to WotW in extension I just don't think they should both be 5 stars. WotW has several scenes where the bass is centered below. I realize the criteria is whether or not it contains bass down low, but when it is just a few times and just a spot or two of bass I don't think it should be 5 star. Idk. What do you think MaxM and Dave??

#149 Bossobass Dave

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 07:00 PM

Hey Dave, I was just checking out these graphs again and had a couple of questions: In the graphs for Chapters 4 and 5, there is much more intense coloration in the graph below 20Hz for the Chp 4 graph than the Chp 5 graph, but the peak traces at the top of the graphs appear very similar for 4 & 5? Any idea why that is? Based on the colors, I would have expected Chp 4 to show much higher Peak (and Average) activity, especially below 10Hz (of course for ULF, Chp 9 is still King Of The Hill). Max


Yes, sometimes the peak hold has not reset from the last graph. For each cap I have to grab the graph, send it to paint and crop/name it, snap a pic of and note the time stamp of the beginning and end of the scene.

Sitting there waiting for the PH to reset is a drag, especially when you have a dozen movies to catch up on and losing the PH because you set it shorter but took too long to set the screen to a decent frame to take a pic of it just as aggravating, especially when all you have to do is glance at the colors and you have that information anyway.

I believe I'm going to eliminate the PH/Ave bar from my caps, as I have in the past. This will allow me to use the dozens I already have without having to do them all over for the sake of the PH/Ave feature.

#150 maxmercy

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:19 AM

I believe I'm going to eliminate the PH/Ave bar from my caps, as I have in the past. This will allow me to use the dozens I already have without having to do them all over for the sake of the PH/Ave feature.


I think that is a great idea, and would save a ton of redundant work. The waterfalls are awesome for relative levels per frequency in a scene and esp for specific effects (sweeps, booms), and don't necessarily need the P/A graph there as well.

JSS

X-Men tonight.

#151 djbluemax1

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:57 AM

Yes, sometimes the peak hold has not reset from the last graph. For each cap I have to grab the graph, send it to paint and crop/name it, snap a pic of and note the time stamp of the beginning and end of the scene.

Sitting there waiting for the PH to reset is a drag, especially when you have a dozen movies to catch up on and losing the PH because you set it shorter but took too long to set the screen to a decent frame to take a pic of it just as aggravating, especially when all you have to do is glance at the colors and you have that information anyway.

I believe I'm going to eliminate the PH/Ave bar from my caps, as I have in the past. This will allow me to use the dozens I already have without having to do them all over for the sake of the PH/Ave feature.

Ah, OK. Simple and clear explanation. I was wondering about that thoug, because when I first noticed it, I looked at the traces again to make sure that the traces were not identical, and they weren't. So I'm actually still a little confused by that part, but your explanation that the scene specific PH/Ave traces are potentially not accurate and should be disregarded, is explanation enough. The color charts DO provide enough of a visual indicator (although I did like potentially being able to see what peak db levels each frequency hit in the scenes).


Max

P.S. As always, I appreciate the time and effort you guys are putting into doing this.

#152 Bossobass Dave

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 02:54 AM

The color charts DO provide enough of a visual indicator (although I did like potentially being able to see what peak db levels each frequency hit in the scenes). Max P.S. As always, I appreciate the time and effort you guys are putting into doing this.


Actually, the color charts are far more accurate in that they show the peaks throughout the entire scene as they occurred, effect-by-effect, whereas the peak hold graph only shows the maximum peak levels hit for the entire scene. And the color scale is quite accurate once you get used to reading the colors with peak numbers in mind.

Also, by eliminating the PH bar, I can fit more of a scene in a single graph. When you limit the scenes to 3 per movie, that ends up meaning a lot.

#153 maxmercy

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 02:59 AM

X-Men:

Level - 3 Stars (109.82dB composite)
Extension - 5 Stars (1Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (31.12dB)
Execution - 4 Stars - Well done film, especially for being 12 years old. Just doesn't have as much oomph as the true 5 Star films.

Overall -  4.25 Stars

Recommendation - Buy - This film was so well directed that between this film and Sam Raimi's Spider Man, people started to take comic book movies more seriously, which eventually led to The Incredible Hulk.

JSS

 

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#154 maxmercy

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 03:03 AM

Actually, the color charts are far more accurate in that they show the peaks throughout the entire scene as they occurred, effect-by-effect, whereas the peak hold graph only shows the maximum peak levels hit for the entire scene. And the color scale is quite accurate once you get used to reading the colors with peak numbers in mind.

Also, by eliminating the PH bar, I can fit more of a scene in a single graph. When you limit the scenes to 3 per movie, that ends up meaning a lot.


Once we get a good tutorial up, I think we'll have more movie scenes graphed....and I will link them.

JSS

#155 maxmercy

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:36 PM

Great Stuff, Bosso. I'll have CitW and The Amazing Spider-Man done by the weekend. I haven't seen either, so I will have to screen them before I measure them. In the meantime, I have 9...

9

Level - 5 Stars (113.15dB composite)
Extension - 5 Stars (1Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (28.51dB)
Execution - 5 Stars - This film does not want for anything, LFE-wise. It is well done, and a very good film as well. 

Overall Rating - 5 Stars

Recommendation: Buy, unless animation is not your thing.

JSS

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#156 maxmercy

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:33 AM

Here's X-Men 2:

Level - 3 Stars (109.34dB composite) 
Extension - 5 Stars (5Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (30.56dB)
Execution - 4 Stars - Good use of LF, but not on par with the greatest; very judicious, hence the dynamics being so high.

Overall Rating - 4.25 Stars

Recommendation: Buy. This is a great film, save for some cheese at the very end (overacting by Famke Janssen, Hugh Jackman and whoever plays Cyclops).


JSS

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#157 maxmercy

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:40 AM

On that first scene cap for Iron Man 2, my suspicions are finally confirmed. I always suspected that there was a touch of clip in that scene, ESP the last zoom into the repulsors prior to landing in the pavilion. The fireworks afterward had some subsonic s in them as we'll.....

JSS

#158 FOH

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 06:30 PM

Again gentlemen, to all involved, .... thanks so much for the effort put forth.

There's no substitute for raw, by-the-numbers analysis of the LF/ULF contained in these releases. Until one really spends the time to correlate what freqs are associated with each particular scene or effect, it's difficult even for the savvy enthusiast to fully grasp the freqs involved. These graphs are great tools. Many of us can guess pretty close wrt freq/effect, but I really dig printing these graphs, and follow along as the scene plays out,....subjectively analyzing the playback while visually correlating the spectral components contained in the soundtrack.

I've been doing this since I first encountered these types of spectral weight/frequency graphs. I believe one of the first film soundtracks I recall following along with, printed graph in hand, was the Flight of the Phoenix ('04) plane crash scene. Over and over I followed along during playback, carefully correlating each audible effect used to the visual counterpart.

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To the work you're doing here, just fantastic stuff. Certainly no complaint, but as an aside, I would enjoy a "single most demanding scene" metric of some sort. Myself, without any graphing capability, (however crudely) I've examined amperage draw on a single sub amplifier (EP4K) in such an attempt. It's somewhat akin to an "area under the curve" approach, but admittedly the methodology I used was fraught with potential error. All said, it's quite the task to capture and document current demand accurately. But it's always stimulating to put the thinking cap on and plunge head first into a curiosity. Without question, in the world of performance subwoofer systems, measurements trump all.

Thanks for all the work gentlemen.

#159 maxmercy

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 07:48 PM

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FOH,

Thanks for the props! As for most demanding scene, that one can be a tough one, depending on the EQ/LT of a particular system, and the impedance spikes in a system (really hard for a folded horn system). Given no EQ and a flat impedance, we could probably get close to being able to track something like this.

Here is the awaited Amazing Spider-Man:

Level - 3 Stars (108.9dB)
Extension - 5 Stars (1Hz) Tremendous extension, most 'impact' effects in the film have plenty of sub-20Hz content.
Dynamics - 5 Stars (31.21dB) This makes up for some of the loss in level, and the bass is used in the film well, with hardly any <20Hz in the film until Peter gets bitten, making for effects with real 'weight' after he does. Very good use of dynamics.
Execution - 4 Stars - If they just would have cranked the sound a little more (essentially they left around 7dB on the table, this would have rivaled The Incredible Hulk. This is also up for debate, and if people want a 5 on this, I could go 5.

Overall Rating: 4.25 Stars

Recommendation - Rent. Although this film has some great (albeit lower level) bass, it is not as well-written a film as the Tobey Maguire Spider-Man, IMO, and not as re-watchable, even though I like the casting more in this version.

I wonder if this film suffered from the 'turning down' of effects like other releases have for home media formats...

JSS

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#160 FOH

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 08:56 PM

Regarding Amazing Spider-Man:

"Dynamics - 5 Stars (28.3dB) This makes up for some of the loss in level, and the bass is used in the film well, with hardly any <20Hz in the film until Peter gets bitten, making for effects with real 'weight' after he does."

You stating it that way I immediately thought of the effect used in The Wizard of Oz, whereby Dorothy's entire dream sequence is in Technicolor, reverting back to sepia toned black and white upon awakening. The use of color was still seen as a special effect, not unlike the arsenal of effects at the disposal of today' film-makers.

Sorry about the spoiler, it is however over 70 years old.


Looking forward to viewing Spidey




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