maxmercy

The Low Frequency Content Thread (films, games, music, etc)

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I noticed "Despicable Me" (the original) hasn't been measured yet.  The wife and I watched it last night and enjoyed it immensely.  The sound design is among the best I've heard.  It has great slam and micro-dynamics from the bass to the treble.  I also didn't hear any clipping or evidence of heavy compression.  That doesn't mean it isn't there, but I usually hear at least some trouble in other releases.  This one sounds very clean.  The mixers used strong macro-dynamic swings skillfully to make things sound very powerful.  Subjectively, I think it was a "Level 4" or "5" movie, but I wouldn't be surprised if it measures as a "3".  I don't know how low it goes, but I definitely heard a lot of effects below 30 Hz and down to the limits of my system (15 Hz-ish).

 

Oh yeah.  This one has rockets, and they sound great!  This is a good example of using strong bass dynamics and ULF to give the impression of very high acoustic power instead of using clipping or distortion.

 

In any case, I look forward to seeing the sequel, which I see has been measured here and appears to retain the same positive qualities that I heard in this one.

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Death Race (5.1 DTS-HD MA)

 

Level        - 3 Stars (108.19dB composite)
Extension - 1 Star (32Hz)
Dynamics - 3 Stars (24.78dB)
Execution - 3 Stars

Overall     - 2.5 Stars

Recommendation - Rent

 

PvA:

 

post-17-0-78974000-1413137311_thumb.png

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Death Race 2 (5.1 DTS-HD MA)

 

Level        - 4 Stars (111.33dB composite)
Extension - 5 Stars (1Hz)
Dynamics - 4 Stars (26.87dB)

Execution - 4 Stars (by poll)

 

Overall     - 4.25 Stars

Recommendation - Rent (by poll)

 

Notes:  From the outset, this one has effects on screen that are coupled with significant bass below 20Hz.  Many of the effects seem reused, as their specific signatures are seen throughout the measurements.

 

PvA:

 

post-17-0-83463800-1413137503_thumb.png

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Death Race: Inferno (5.1 DTS-HD MA)

 

Level        - 5 Stars (114.9dB composite)
Extension - 5 Stars (7Hz)
Dynamics - 3 Stars (24.91dB)

Execution - 3 Stars (by poll)

 

Overall     - 4 Stars

Recommendation - Avoid (by poll)

 

Notes:  Most of the effects don't go below 15Hz with authority, but there are a few that dig to 5-7Hz.  Look at those levels!!  Unfortunately, clipping across the LCR + LFE are present with those high levels.  This whole series is very bad, and I don't recommend watching.

 

PvA:

 

post-17-0-81526800-1413137787_thumb.png

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Don't Be Afraid of the Dark (5.1 DTS-HD MA)

Level        - 2 Stars (107.09dB composite)
Extension - 2 Stars (24Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (35.07dB)

Execution - 2 Stars (by poll)

 

Overall     - 2.75 Stars

Recommendation - Rent (by poll)

Notes:  Amazing dynamics, but significantly filtered, and not really a bass movie.  That one effect going to 25Hz is reused several times throughout the movie, at various levels.

 

PvA:

 

post-17-0-51898700-1413137971_thumb.png

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The Lost World: Jurassic Park (7.1 DTS-HD MA)

 

Level        - 4 Stars (110.55dB composite)
Extension - 1 Star (27Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (28.94dB)

Execution - 4 Stars (by poll)

 

Overall     - 3 Stars

Recommendation - Buy (by poll)

 

Notes:  A Jurassic-sized filter on this one.

 

PvA:

 

post-17-0-64762800-1413138227_thumb.png

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Jurassic Park III (7.1 DTS-HD MA)

 

Level        - 4 Stars (110.42dB composite)
Extension - 5 Stars (1Hz)
Dynamics - 4 Stars (26.92dB)

Execution - 4 Stars (by poll)

 

Overall     - 4.25 Stars

Recommendation - Rent (by poll)

 

Notes:  While technically a 5 star movie for extension, it's really got a -10dB point of around 17Hz.  Jurassic-sized hump in the response for those Jurassic footsteps.

 

PvA:

 

post-17-0-71496600-1413138479_thumb.png

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Max Payne (5.1 DTS-HD MA)

 

Level        - 5 Stars (113.13dB composite)
Extension - 2 Stars (24.2Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (27.61dB)

Execution - 4 Stars (by poll)

 

Overall     - 4 Stars

Recommendation - Rent (by poll)

 

Notes:  Loud, but not low.  Significantly filtered at somewhere around 27Hz.

 

PvA:

 

post-17-0-72441600-1413138666_thumb.png

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Edge of Tomorrow (7.1 DTS-HD MA)

 

Level        - 5 Stars (113.59dB composite)
Extension - 5 Stars (9Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (27.61dB)

Execution - 5 Stars (by poll)

 

Overall     - 5 Stars

Recommendation - Buy (by poll)

 

Notes:  The tones at the beginning are the highest level single tones I've seen in a movie.  If you have a commercial sub, or are gain matched, you'll probably be fine playing them at your normal levels.  If not, and especially if you run subs hot or have ported/IB subs without a strong HPF, be careful at the beginning. 

 

Lots of unfiltered content below 20Hz that gets masked in the graphs by those tones, but it's there.  Very good sound design overall, with only a little bit of clipping.  Mostly it's carefully limited, as seen in the waveforms below.  This is an example of being able to get the most out of the track when designing and mixing.  Very good movie.

 

PvA:

 

post-17-0-45280900-1413144016_thumb.png

 

Clipping & Waveforms:

 

post-17-0-32714100-1413139255_thumb.png

 

post-17-0-14476000-1413139264_thumb.png

 

post-17-0-60776600-1413139271_thumb.png

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The Spirit (2008) - 5.1 DTS-HDMA

Level - 3 Stars (109.27dB composite)
Extension - 5 Stars (1Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (33.66dB)
Execution - 4 Stars (tie at 3 & 4 stars)

Overall - 4.25 Stars

Recommendation - Rent


A Frank Miller film in the style of the original Sin City.  While not as good overall, it definitely delivers in the bass department, but the audio is hard-limited at -0dB on LCR/LFE, making for a clipped/compressed-sounding track, but very mild compression compared to today's releases.   Extremely powerful effects and dynamics, worth a watch on a capable system, which is able to do this soundtrack justice in the ULF region.

JSS
 

post-20-0-98069600-1411013897.jpg

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Edge of Tomorrow (7.1 DTS-HD MA)

 

 

Notes:  The tones at the beginning are the highest level single tones I've seen in a movie. 

 

Ok so the people getting all excited saying this was "twice as loud as anything else recorded" weren't actually exaggerating all that much? How is it possible there is headroom for this kind of thing? Haven't you already measured discs that are maxed out, like the Skyfall subway crash. I thought that was at the limit, like 0db. I see on the graph the peak at 10hz is about -8db, does that mean there's another 8db in the tank?

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...

does that mean there's another 8db in the tank?

Yes.

 

I am sure there are many soundtracks with higher peak level, what makes this one so special is that this is sustained, constant-level tones lasting several seconds.

Many lfe-effects are made up from something that looks more like pink noise - wide frequency bandwidth, and crest factor may be in the range 6-18dB.

The variation in level and wide bandwith makes it rather hard to notice that the subwoofer system is way above its limits; kind of a forgiving signal.

Example: Skyfall subway ("was that meant for me?"-  "No, but this is.."). 

 

Transient effects, like cannons, blasts, have a very short initial peak with very high amplitude.

If the initial high amplitude is clipped or otherwise lmitied, this is not something one will easily notice, as you would need a back-to-back comparison with a reproduction that does not limit to be able to tell that something was lost.

Example: M&C cannons, scene in the middle of the film is the best to notice.

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 I see on the graph the peak at 10hz is about -8db, does that mean there's another 8db in the tank?

 

Yes, if a signal is maxed out (0dBFS), a way to make it louder is to place said signal in multiple channels.

The signal is summed together, either by soundwaves in the air if you only use fullrange speakers or in the crossover of say an AVR.

In the crossover the low frequency content of all fullrange channels is summed together with the LFE and then outputted to Sub-out.

 

Therefore, you can have low frecuency signals higher than the max 115dB wich the LFE can have at 0dBFS, when played back at reference level.

In a 7.1 track you can potentially have little over 10dB louder effects if the same signal is encoded, fully maxed, in all channels.

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I bought (used at FYE) Hellboy II and 9 to see if i would find some good bass. I like bass that makes the house rattle (first 60 sec of EoT, Flight of the Phoenix, Tron, War of the Worlds, Hurt Locker). I have watched half of each movie (Hellboy II, 9) but have not really experienced wall shaking like the other movies. Can someone point me to the chapters and timestamps where walls rattle like in other movies i listed.

 

thanks

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Yes.

 

I am sure there are many soundtracks with higher peak level, what makes this one so special is that this is sustained, constant-level tones lasting several seconds.

Many lfe-effects are made up from something that looks more like pink noise - wide frequency bandwidth, and crest factor may be in the range 6-18dB.

The variation in level and wide bandwith makes it rather hard to notice that the subwoofer system is way above its limits; kind of a forgiving signal.

Example: Skyfall subway ("was that meant for me?"-  "No, but this is.."). 

 

Transient effects, like cannons, blasts, have a very short initial peak with very high amplitude.

If the initial high amplitude is clipped or otherwise lmitied, this is not something one will easily notice, as you would need a back-to-back comparison with a reproduction that does not limit to be able to tell that something was lost.

Example: M&C cannons, scene in the middle of the film is the best to notice.

 

+1.  Some have come close to pushing the limits of peaks in 7.1, but not sustained tones like EoT has.  That being said, I have not measured FoTP with the new measurement scheme.

 

JSS

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That opening scene in "Edge of Tomorrow" looks like a sub-wrecker if I ever saw one!  That 10 Hz tone may even be loud enough to hear on my system with 16 Hz, HPFed ported subs.

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We are working on it.

 

JSS

awesome!  cant express how appreciative I am of all your work in this site...I love it (even though it has cost me so much money haha)

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XMen: Days of Future Past

 

Level - 3 Stars (109.43dB composite)
Extension - 5 Stars (4Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (27.54dB)

Execution - 4 Stars (by poll)

Overall - 4.25 Stars

Recommendation - Buy (by poll)

 

* proper decoding accomplished, now a 3 Star level film.

 

It is definitely full-bandwidth, though, and it was very good.

 

 

JSS

post-20-0-95038100-1415229494_thumb.jpg

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I bought (used at FYE) Hellboy II and 9 to see if i would find some good bass. I like bass that makes the house rattle (first 60 sec of EoT, Flight of the Phoenix, Tron, War of the Worlds, Hurt Locker). I have watched half of each movie (Hellboy II, 9) but have not really experienced wall shaking like the other movies. Can someone point me to the chapters and timestamps where walls rattle like in other movies i listed.

 

thanks

 

bump

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I would start by watching the second half of each film.  Without knowing where the freq ranges are for the resonances in your room, hard to give you timestamps.

 

JSS

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Bao here's a couple of moments in Nine for you. "Goes for a fair while and starts about three quarters of the way through the movie 54mins-59mins and 1hr 4mins-1hr 8mins. A couple of epic scenes in this awesome movie."

Hellboy 2

I have found running the bass a bit hotter for this movie works well even though the level suggests shouldn't need to. See scene below. I copied and pasted this

Attached File 01430.bmhttp://data-bass.ipbhost.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=932p 3.75MB 34 downloads Here you go, One of the lowest sweeps in any movie. :wacko: (thanks to LFE MAN for this scenecap). Sorry can't get it to attach the  file. Anyhow its at the 14.30sec mark and its a short violent bass burst.... a bit messy but I think the links there now. Other scenes are the Forest Elemental scene (starts with a tiny bean down the drain) and the end scene where they fight the Golden Army. Many others too but can't remember. Give it a boost and you won't be disappointed.

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bump

 

I haven't seen "Helloboy 2", but "9" has moderately strong deep bass from start to finish.  Most of the strong deep bass coincides with generous mid bass and plenty of sound in general so that the shaking of one's house might be much less noticeable than pure tones against a quiet background as in EOT.  Also, responses vary considerably from room to room depending on where one's resonances lie.  The extended duration pure tones will tend to be most unpredictable because they can potentially excite very narrow resonances that lead to very strong strong peaks or nulls.

 

In my setup, I don't get much wall/house shaking at all, but the deep bass is still unmistakeable because I feel *myself* shaking.  I do have a floating wall (not attached at the bottom) between the interior of my house and the garage, which has a strong bending mode at around 15 Hz.  It is strong enough that you can actually see the whole wall wagging back and forth.  While it's novel to see happen, that effect isn't really a part of the movie.  As time goes on, I'm finding that the less influence my surroundings have on what I hear and feel, the more immersed I am in the actual film.  Each to their own of course.

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Thanks Aj and SME. I finished 9 the other night and will watch second half of Hellboy II this wkend. There are some movies like i mentioned that i find amazing in terms of making my walls and doors make neat noises - very spectacular  (like barrel roll in FotP). So i thought these two movie would be the same because they were rated 5 star. For 9, when they blew up the factory with evil machine in it and the cement smoke stack collapsed, it was very good but did not seem as cool as the other movies i mentioned. Nothing in the house really rattled. 

 

I think I will sell 9 and Hellboy II - i have many other good movies in my library for both good story telling and for bass and these two didn't really appeal to me. They are good, just not my cup of tea i guess. I just bought them used because they were rated 5 star and I wanted to try them again with my new setup. EoT on the other hand - it is a KEEPER! Loved it!

 

thanks again

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