maxmercy

The Low Frequency Content Thread (films, games, music, etc)

3,976 posts in this topic

Yes, sometimes the peak hold has not reset from the last graph. For each cap I have to grab the graph, send it to paint and crop/name it, snap a pic of and note the time stamp of the beginning and end of the scene.

 

Sitting there waiting for the PH to reset is a drag, especially when you have a dozen movies to catch up on and losing the PH because you set it shorter but took too long to set the screen to a decent frame to take a pic of it just as aggravating, especially when all you have to do is glance at the colors and you have that information anyway.

 

I believe I'm going to eliminate the PH/Ave bar from my caps, as I have in the past. This will allow me to use the dozens I already have without having to do them all over for the sake of the PH/Ave feature.

Ah, OK. Simple and clear explanation. I was wondering about that thoug, because when I first noticed it, I looked at the traces again to make sure that the traces were not identical, and they weren't. So I'm actually still a little confused by that part, but your explanation that the scene specific PH/Ave traces are potentially not accurate and should be disregarded, is explanation enough. The color charts DO provide enough of a visual indicator (although I did like potentially being able to see what peak db levels each frequency hit in the scenes).

 

 

Max

 

P.S. As always, I appreciate the time and effort you guys are putting into doing this.

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The color charts DO provide enough of a visual indicator (although I did like potentially being able to see what peak db levels each frequency hit in the scenes). Max P.S. As always, I appreciate the time and effort you guys are putting into doing this.

 

Actually, the color charts are far more accurate in that they show the peaks throughout the entire scene as they occurred, effect-by-effect, whereas the peak hold graph only shows the maximum peak levels hit for the entire scene. And the color scale is quite accurate once you get used to reading the colors with peak numbers in mind.

 

Also, by eliminating the PH bar, I can fit more of a scene in a single graph. When you limit the scenes to 3 per movie, that ends up meaning a lot.

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X-Men:

Level - 3 Stars (109.82dB composite)
Extension - 5 Stars (1Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (31.12dB)
Execution - 4 Stars - Well done film, especially for being 12 years old. Just doesn't have as much oomph as the true 5 Star films.

Overall -  4.25 Stars

Recommendation - Buy - This film was so well directed that between this film and Sam Raimi's Spider Man, people started to take comic book movies more seriously, which eventually led to The Incredible Hulk.

JSS

 

post-20-0-45635100-1384627050_thumb.jpg

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Actually, the color charts are far more accurate in that they show the peaks throughout the entire scene as they occurred, effect-by-effect, whereas the peak hold graph only shows the maximum peak levels hit for the entire scene. And the color scale is quite accurate once you get used to reading the colors with peak numbers in mind.

 

Also, by eliminating the PH bar, I can fit more of a scene in a single graph. When you limit the scenes to 3 per movie, that ends up meaning a lot.

 

Once we get a good tutorial up, I think we'll have more movie scenes graphed....and I will link them.

 

JSS

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Great Stuff, Bosso. I'll have CitW and The Amazing Spider-Man done by the weekend. I haven't seen either, so I will have to screen them before I measure them. In the meantime, I have 9...

9

Level - 5 Stars (113.15dB composite)
Extension - 5 Stars (1Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (28.51dB)
Execution - 5 Stars - This film does not want for anything, LFE-wise. It is well done, and a very good film as well. 

Overall Rating - 5 Stars

Recommendation: Buy, unless animation is not your thing.

JSS

post-20-0-01374100-1393981283_thumb.jpg

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Here's X-Men 2:

Level - 3 Stars (109.34dB composite) 
Extension - 5 Stars (5Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (30.56dB)
Execution - 4 Stars - Good use of LF, but not on par with the greatest; very judicious, hence the dynamics being so high.

Overall Rating - 4.25 Stars

Recommendation: Buy. This is a great film, save for some cheese at the very end (overacting by Famke Janssen, Hugh Jackman and whoever plays Cyclops).


JSS

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On that first scene cap for Iron Man 2, my suspicions are finally confirmed. I always suspected that there was a touch of clip in that scene, ESP the last zoom into the repulsors prior to landing in the pavilion. The fireworks afterward had some subsonic s in them as we'll.....

 

JSS

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Again gentlemen, to all involved, .... thanks so much for the effort put forth.

 

There's no substitute for raw, by-the-numbers analysis of the LF/ULF contained in these releases. Until one really spends the time to correlate what freqs are associated with each particular scene or effect, it's difficult even for the savvy enthusiast to fully grasp the freqs involved. These graphs are great tools. Many of us can guess pretty close wrt freq/effect, but I really dig printing these graphs, and follow along as the scene plays out,....subjectively analyzing the playback while visually correlating the spectral components contained in the soundtrack.

 

I've been doing this since I first encountered these types of spectral weight/frequency graphs. I believe one of the first film soundtracks I recall following along with, printed graph in hand, was the Flight of the Phoenix ('04) plane crash scene. Over and over I followed along during playback, carefully correlating each audible effect used to the visual counterpart.

 

----------

 

To the work you're doing here, just fantastic stuff. Certainly no complaint, but as an aside, I would enjoy a "single most demanding scene" metric of some sort. Myself, without any graphing capability, (however crudely) I've examined amperage draw on a single sub amplifier (EP4K) in such an attempt. It's somewhat akin to an "area under the curve" approach, but admittedly the methodology I used was fraught with potential error. All said, it's quite the task to capture and document current demand accurately. But it's always stimulating to put the thinking cap on and plunge head first into a curiosity. Without question, in the world of performance subwoofer systems, measurements trump all.

 

Thanks for all the work gentlemen.

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SpidermanTitleBlock.JPG

SpidermanPH.JPG

TASsubway_zps5e019452.JPG

TASCh12.JPG

TASCh15.JPG

TASCh16-B_zpsb15e6c17.JPG
FOH,

Thanks for the props! As for most demanding scene, that one can be a tough one, depending on the EQ/LT of a particular system, and the impedance spikes in a system (really hard for a folded horn system). Given no EQ and a flat impedance, we could probably get close to being able to track something like this.

Here is the awaited Amazing Spider-Man:

Level - 3 Stars (108.9dB)
Extension - 5 Stars (1Hz) Tremendous extension, most 'impact' effects in the film have plenty of sub-20Hz content.
Dynamics - 5 Stars (31.21dB) This makes up for some of the loss in level, and the bass is used in the film well, with hardly any <20Hz in the film until Peter gets bitten, making for effects with real 'weight' after he does. Very good use of dynamics.
Execution - 4 Stars - If they just would have cranked the sound a little more (essentially they left around 7dB on the table, this would have rivaled The Incredible Hulk. This is also up for debate, and if people want a 5 on this, I could go 5.

Overall Rating: 4.25 Stars

Recommendation - Rent. Although this film has some great (albeit lower level) bass, it is not as well-written a film as the Tobey Maguire Spider-Man, IMO, and not as re-watchable, even though I like the casting more in this version.

I wonder if this film suffered from the 'turning down' of effects like other releases have for home media formats...

JSS

post-17-0-69321800-1397278149_thumb.png

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Regarding Amazing Spider-Man:

 

"Dynamics - 5 Stars (28.3dB) This makes up for some of the loss in level, and the bass is used in the film well, with hardly any <20Hz in the film until Peter gets bitten, making for effects with real 'weight' after he does."

 

You stating it that way I immediately thought of the effect used in The Wizard of Oz, whereby Dorothy's entire dream sequence is in Technicolor, reverting back to sepia toned black and white upon awakening. The use of color was still seen as a special effect, not unlike the arsenal of effects at the disposal of today' film-makers.

 

Sorry about the spoiler, it is however over 70 years old.

 

 

Looking forward to viewing Spidey

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Wow, you have been busy! Will update and index. Cabin in the Woods tomorrow.... Gonna check out Spidey at my normal level, had it quieter last night watching w/ my wife.....don't think it will change my ratings, but I wanna see how it compares w/ my other faves...

 

JSS

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OK, everything Indexed to first page, thanks bosso! Today is Cabin in the Woods.

 

I thought this an interesting comparo (see attached). I stick by my 4 Star Execution Rating for TAS after viewing again last night.

 

JSS

post-20-0-55089100-1353247833_thumb.png

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Problem: my Netflix CITW only is 5.1 DD. This looks like it may be a lower quality rental copy, may need to see if Redbox has the 7.1 DTS-HDMA version.....

 

JSS

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Lo and behold, the Netflix copy says DTSHDMA 7.1, but even after a BDP firmware upgrade, only DD5.1 is selectable. There is a huge ~32Hz spike in my trace that overpowers everything else. I'll see if I can get a better disc that will allow me to select DTS-HDMA 7.1....

 

JSS

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Lo and behold, the Netflix copy says DTSHDMA 7.1, but even after a BDP firmware upgrade, only DD5.1 is selectable. There is a huge ~32Hz spike in my trace that overpowers everything else. I'll see if I can get a better disc that will allow me to select DTS-HDMA 7.1....

 

JSS

Go into the Oppo menu and make sure Secondary Audio is OFF. If it's ON, you won't get the Lossless track.

 

 

Max

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Edit Sept. 17, 2014: remeasuring the lossy DD rental BD resulted in lower extension rating, and overall this one went from a 3.5 to a 3 Star movie.

 

Original post follows:

 

So I have found out after some searching that Lionsgate rental BD's no longer have lossless audio, even though it says so on the Netflix disc I have. The disc's menu has only one option for sound, DD5.1. So, without any further ado:

 

CITWTitleBlock.JPG

CITWPH.JPG

The Cabin in the Woods:

Level - 1 Star (104.22dB)
Extension - 2 Stars (24Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (28.11dB)
Execution - 4 Stars - Maybe the lossless version is better, but other than the ~30Hz madness in a few scenes, this one could have used more overall level. It is not until you throw in one of the 5-Star level tracks that you realize that some of the other films are simply mixed quieter. Again, dynamics are used well in this film to make louder parts SEEM louder, but in comparison to the real heavy hitters in the Level department, this one has a ways to go. Great LFE sleeper film, though.

Overall Rating: 3 Stars

Recommendation: Rent. This film, while a very imaginative take on the generic summer horror films, may not be everyone's cup of tea.

JSS

post-17-0-41349000-1410979808_thumb.png

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Now that we have some more films in the DataBass, I am wondering if we should change the ratings for Level or Dynamics.

 

No films have been under 4-Star for Dynamics, though some have come really close, but most mixers will use most of the dynamic range available for action-type content, so I figured that most films would be 4 or 5 Star.

 

As for Level, I think that although we hand out 1 Star ratings at times, that the scoring system is pretty fair, and that the louder films do get their just due.

 

Lemme know what you think.

 

JSS

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Ratings seem pretty good to me, with a ratings system like this, we know right away that something scoring 4's and 5's across the board is going to be GOOD (at least in the bass department).

 

Hmm... I wonder if it's possible to sue them for false advertising for printing the lossless audio on the disc without including it?

 

 

Max

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Who knows. I can see why they do it, only have to use a BD25 instead of a BD50 to get the rental copies out.

 

I am on night call all this week, making for no time to really measure films. I should have some more time after Thanksgiving, and I will update and index CitW and any other films bosso generates screencaps for as I have time....

 

I do really need to get going on the scene-cap tutorial.....

 

JSS

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You know... I saw everyone raving about CITW's bass and I bought it and watched it twice but other than chapter 17 nothing really stood out to me as all that great. It was well mixed, the content matched the film and the bass went low, it's just not anything I would consider demo worthy. Not enough level to be in the upper echelon of bass movies. The measurements confirm exactly what I was thinking. I do like the movie though. I got some good laughs out of it.

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Now that we have some more films in the DataBass, I am wondering if we should change the ratings for Level or Dynamics.

 

No films have been under 4-Star for Dynamics, though some have come really close, but most mixers will use most of the dynamic range available for action-type content, so I figured that most films would be 4 or 5 Star.

 

As for Level, I think that although we hand out 1 Star ratings at times, that the scoring system is pretty fair, and that the louder films do get their just due.

 

Lemme know what you think.

 

JSS

 

All the ratings are fine. You don't need to change them. The problem is is that you have been graphing many good titles. Start grabbing some random movies not known for thier bass and those ratings overall will be lower. It's just that we know what is good for bass and are starting with all those.

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You know... I saw everyone raving about CITW's bass and I bought it and watched it twice but other than chapter 17 nothing really stood out to me as all that great. It was well mixed, the content matched the film and the bass went low, it's just not anything I would consider demo worthy. Not enough level to be in the upper echelon of bass movies. The measurements confirm exactly what I was thinking. I do like the movie though. I got some good laughs out of it.

 

Well, that does confirm that the lossless version doesn't have more juice to a certain extent. To tell the truth, most ppl cannot tell lossy from lossless. I can only tell in A/B comparos......I have to hear it first to have a reference point; the difference for me is it sounds more 'airy' and 'full', and I apologize in advance for the oddiophile terms...

 

I fell into the same trap, where so many at AVS were hailing this as the next WotW, just like nearly every new release.....

 

JSS

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I agree, but the super hot 32 Hz run is definitely as powerful as any narrow-band effect I've ever heard.

 

Re-running scenes from BLA certainly reminded me what a monstrous soundtrack it is. I put it up there with WOTW, HTTYD and TIH.

 

My neighbor came to the front door as I was graphing those BLA scenes. She said no one answered the front door bell, so she was walking back and passed the HT where there are 2 dormers in front. She then just walked in the house and yelled up, "Hey, you have to play that again and come out here and watch your windows bulging!!".

 

It truly is brutal, and yes, you have to revisit other top-tier movies because low end audio memory is extremely short.

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