maxmercy

The Low Frequency Content Thread (films, games, music, etc)

3,941 posts in this topic

Hmmm.. Very interesting and good to know! I love dynamics (as my uber speaker system would ellude to). Makes me curious about TF3 as that is my current favorite 7.1 surround mix. I remember when it came out that you said that you were disappointed in the sound mix as there was too many recycled sounds, iirc. Something like that. I would agree somewhat. There didn't seem to be a large amount of new material but the mix in 7.1 was epic and super thick. I rarely find sound mixes like it and can really only compare it to something like Saving Private Ryan in it's detail and pure sound field saturation. I love it.

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TF3 tonight. That may be my problem: no 7.1 yet. I need to decide whether or not to build a set of surrounds or wait until the entire system will get an upgrade to 95dB sensitivity and 10Hz extension. Right now I am at 90-92dB sensitivity and 15Hz extension, good to -7dB.

 

JSS

 

EDIT - The graphs do use a 7.1 bass managed signal (if 7.1 content is present), so nothing is left out.

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Working on spectrograph caps for WOTW, Transformers and Transformers II. I may do more if time permits.

 

For the ratings, I'm changing the Template to Level, Extension, Dynamics and Execution. As soon as Max gets the numbers, I'll load the stars.

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Transformers 3 Graph attached.

Ratings for it:

Level: 4 Stars (112.03dB composite)
Extension: 3 Stars (17Hz)
Dynamics: 4 Stars (27.45dB)
Execution: IMO, 3-4 stars, it was a letdown when compared to the sonic impact of Transformers 2. Final vote for me is 3 Stars.

Total Star Rating: 3.5 Stars

Recommendation - Rent first, unless a Transformers fan, then Buy.


JSS

post-20-0-09602300-1383973747_thumb.jpg

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X-FormersIITitleBlock.JPG

PeakHoldAverageTransformersII.JPG

XFORMERSIICH1.JPG

XFormersIICh19A.JPG

XFormersIICh19B.JPG

 

Transformers 2:

Level: 5 Stars (113.78dB composite)
Extension: 3 Stars (17Hz)
Dynamics: 5 Stars (29.8dB)
Execution: 4 Stars - Simply due to not much below 20Hz, and it was missing when compared to better tracks. It is the ONLY thing this track is missing. A track has to be literally perfect to be 5-Stars. Movie is a sound and vision fest, with little substance.

Overall Star Rating: 4.25 Stars

Recommendation: Rent for sure, and a sure Buy if you are a Transformers/Bayformers fan. Buy is my final recommendation.

JSS

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Holy crap bosso, those WOTW caps look AWESOME! I lost them due to the page turnover. Should get WOTW in a few weeks. I bet it will get 5 stars in every category, if those screencaps are any indication.

 

JSS

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TansTitleBlock.JPG

PeakHoldAverageTransformers.JPG

TransCh15copy.JPG

TransCh19.JPG

TransCh21.JPG

 

Bosso, great stuff, as usual.

 

Transformers:

Level: 4 Stars (111.57dB composite)
Extension: 5 Stars (1Hz)
Dynamics: 4 Stars (25.98dB)
Execution: 4 Stars - This was a terrific film, and got many into the subwoofer realm because of Ironhide's flip. If it wasn't for a single effect, though, this would only be a 19Hz extension film, hence the 4 Star rating. The best part of this film is that most explosions that are wide bandwidth (and therefore do not contribute much to peak levels) extend down into the teens if not single digits, and it is easily palpable.

Overall Star Rating: 4.25 Stars

Recommendation: Buy.

Scroll up for the Bosso screen caps and Star Ratings.

 

JSS

post-20-0-44938200-1383780574_thumb.jpg

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Looks great! I'll get more rankings done tonight, TIH, T:L, Thor, Immortals, Avengers, B:LA if I have time.

 

JSS

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Here are the Star Ratings based on the criteria on the first page.

 

 

Film Level Extension Dynamics Execution Overall

The Incredible Hulk 5 5 4 5 4.75

Battle:LA 4 5 4 5 4.5

Transformers 4 5 4 4 4.25

Transformers 2 5 3 5 4 4.25

Tron:Legacy 5 5 4 3 4.25

Thor 5 3 5 4 4.25

Immortals 4 5 4 3 4

Scott Pilgrim 4 4 4 4 4

Transformers 3 4 3 4 3 3.5

Avengers 2 2 4 2 2.5

 

 

If it seems like there are too many films at 4.25, it is because I have mainly been graphing films I KNOW to be good. For a film to be 5-star overall, it has to be outstanding in EVERY respect. I withhold 5 star execution ratings for only the cleanest, lowest extending presentations. You almost need a 5-Star extension to get 5 Star execution from me, as I consider any filtration a deduction in execution. Look at the Transformers films. All have a rolloff of some sort below 30-40Hz save for a handful effects. The Incredible Hulk and Battle:LA, little to no rolloff. I deduct stars also for noticeable clipping, like Tron and Immortals do. Tron due to a heavy handed director on the mixing stage for BluRay post, Immortals from the mix team literally pushing the buss limiters into engaging on their mix stage. You get 3 stars for that crap. Watch your damn signal levels, guys. I did not notice clipping in Thor, I think the guys got around it by pushing individual channels and LFE to near max, as it still appears to be a clean presentation to me. But their filtering of the track got them 4 stars from me. A Thor that would have had a handful of effects delving into the sub-10Hz region with power would have gotten 5 stars for everything. Too bad.

 

If you guys think I am treating some films unfairly with my execution ratings, please say so, it will make for some decent debate.

 

Attached is a graph form of the ratings:

 

If you guys think I should modify the scoring system, please let me know. The only one I think I should/could modify is Dynamics, as all the films are between 4-5 stars. But they are all action films, and Dynamics are expected. What do you guys think?

 

JSS

 

EDIT - OK, so that sucked, trying to paste in Excel cells into the post. Any hints on how to do this?

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After doing some math, Dynamics may be better rated with an Average of Dynamics per Octave, instead of just subtracting Avg from Peak Overall readings (basically, subtracting the area under the Avg curve from the area under the Peak curve).

 

The way it stands, Level is done by Adding the two areas under the Peak and Avg curves, Extension by finding the -10dB (from highest level on peak or avg graph) frequency, and Dynamics is the only one that may benefit from an Octave to Octave average of dynamic power.

 

Here's a graph comparing all the films rated sorting by Average Dynamics per Octave (on the right):

 

The Current way I rate Dynamics is on the left of the chart, and you can see the individual octaves.

 

JSS

 

EDIT - Graph deleted due to dynamics remaining unchanged from page 1

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Films to be graphed in the near future:

 

Sin City

Transformers 1,2,3

Iron Man 1&2

Thor

XMen 1,2,3, Wolverine, 1st Class

Casino Royale

Quantum of Solace

Star Wars Saga

Batman Begins

The Dark Knight

Green Lantern

Speed Racer

Alien vs Predator

Wrath of the Titans

War of the Worlds

9

Cabin in the Woods

Prometheus

Project X

The Hurt Locker

 

JSS

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The only other change after doing a little more math is Level. Right now, the way I do level weights the 150-160Hz region as just as importantly as the 10-20Hz region. If I would do it by averaging levels per octave, it would weight the area under the 10-20Hz octave just as strongly as the 80-160Hz octave. It actually doesn't change much in the ratings, but does give more weight to films with more down low, as films that are filtered will have their lower octaves so low in overall level that it will bring their average down. We need to compare that against the fact that we have a separate category for Extension, to make sure films that extend lower get more Stars.

 

Basically, the question is: Do we Average per Octave for Level and Dynamics, or not?

 

Then again, I have yet to measure WOTW. It may be a 5-Star overall, validating the current scoring system.

 

OK, enough math for now.

 

Good night, folks.

 

JSS

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Wow! You two are really turning up the heat!

 

Awesome graphs Bosso. I approve of the new title header....thingie. :P

 

Agreed...They are kicking ass. The header thing that Dave put together is nice. It would be extra cool if they could somehow get the peak and avg chart into Dave's template.

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Agreed...They are kicking ass. The header thing that Dave put together is nice. It would be extra cool if they could somehow get the peak and avg chart into Dave's template.

 

Like this?...

 

 

Transformers

 

 

 

TansTitleBlock.jpg

 

 

PeakHoldAverageTemplate.jpg

 

TransCh15copy.jpg

 

TransCh19.jpg

 

TransCh21.jpg

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OK, forget about the 'per octave' discussions above, as they involve the averaging of dBHz levels, which cannot be done without converting back to PascalHz, and then it would lead to the same results anyway after averaging. The only calculation that is a straight dB+dB addition is for total level, in order to give the Peak level some input and not all the weight into the Level category.

 

Does anyone know of a good way to post stuff from Excel so it doesn't look like the gobbledygook above for all the films rated?

 

 

JSS

 

PS - Bosso, that looks great. If you need higher res bitmaps, lemme know. I am using JPEG compression as I am posting these things to the forum.

 

Up tonight is Sin City, then I am leaving town until Next Friday, this time for an actual vacation.

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OK, forget about the 'per octave' discussions above, as they involve the averaging of dBHz levels, which cannot be done without converting back to PascalHz, and then it would lead to the same results anyway after averaging. The only calculation that is a straight dB+dB addition is for total level, in order to give the Peak level some input and not all the weight into the Level category. Does anyone know of a good way to post stuff from Excel so it doesn't look like the gobbledygook above for all the films rated? JSS PS - Bosso, that looks great. If you need higher res bitmaps, lemme know. I am using JPEG compression as I am posting these things to the forum. Up tonight is Sin City, then I am leaving town until Next Friday, this time for an actual vacation.

 

Higher res is good. You can e-mail them to me and I'll save them in a folder until I run the waterfall graphs:

 

bossobass@bossobass.com

 

Also, is there any way you can do a slightly heavier trace line? The red trace is hard to see, although that may change with a higher res copy.

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We need Kyle.

 

Is there any way you can format these results in an index with hyperlinks to the result like you did with the systems index?

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Bosso,

Yes, I can make all of them thicker lines, and I can send you bmp's. I'll do it when I get back from vaca.

Here's Sin City (attached):

Level: 2 Stars (107.4dB composite)
Extension: 5 Star (1Hz)
Dynamics: 5 Star (31.43dB)
Execution: 5 Stars.  Great use of ULF.  Could be a little higher in level, but great dynamics and little clipping.

Overall Ranking: 4.25 Stars

Recommendation: Rent. If you like the genre, definitely buy. This film is not for everyone, but it is very good.

See you guys next week!

JSS

post-20-0-02434500-1383686135_thumb.jpg

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Glad I found this forum and thread! Thanks to Bosso for sending me here. Subscibed!

 

Craig

 

Hi Craig - awesome idea to rate the movies the way it's being proposed. I am a new BassHead as you know and my pair of F2s haven't been shipped yet, but will be soon. I don't think I will have a great deal to contribute here as my tech knowledge wrt to measuring etc is very limited, but I know I will learn a lot here and also get a lot out of checking out the reviewed discs.

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

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Films to be graphed in the near future:

 

Sin City

Transformers 1,2,3

Iron Man 1&2

Thor

XMen 1,2,3, Wolverine, 1st Class

Casino Royale

Quantum of Solace

Star Wars Saga

Batman Begins

The Dark Knight

Green Lantern

Speed Racer

Alien vs Predator

Wrath of the Titans

War of the Worlds

9

Cabin in the Woods

Prometheus

Project X

The Hurt Locker

 

Oh yes! Oh YES! I have all but three of those movies and a pair of Submersive F2s on the way (and for a small room too!) so I am so looking forward to seeing these graphs. Thanks to you guys for such a great concept and a great thread.

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