The Low Frequency Content Thread (films, games, music, etc)

[MKtheater]

Yeah, only the big boys hit low levels and high spl at the same time.  Movies like FOTP have lots of high spl at 20-30hz but still has the ULF to add weight and that sense of doom feeling. 

 

BTW, all these are at reference and I adjusted my soundcard and set my crossover to 150hz to get all the bass.  I used Soho's disc and when I ran 3hz at reference with his -0.5 dBs test I got dark purple at 3hz which is 0 dBs so good to go as level and color is concerned. 

[maxmercy]

Guys remember that many of Bosso's were of his LFE system and mic'd and these are digital off the disc.  Of course this leaves me to this question, How do I measure my system now to compare to the digital feed? If I drop off too much under 10hz then Bosso will make a quick sale of his shaper!  I will assume I just plug my amp and mic in and play the movie that way?

 

I think what nube was referring to was if your LCRS are set to small, and their crossover is above 120 for all. I set my LFE low pass to 250, and all the LCRS to small and 250 as well so I know I am getting all the bass on the disc, no matter where it is hiding....

 

To compare to digital feed, you have to compensate for mic roll off either within (harder) or outside of SpecLab (hard). Not easy if your mic has a 'calfile'....

 

JSS

[maxmercy]

Yeah, only the big boys hit low levels and high spl at the same time.  Movies like FOTP have lots of high spl at 20-30hz but still has the ULF to add weight and that sense of doom feeling. 

 

BTW, all these are at reference and I adjusted my soundcard and set my crossover to 150hz to get all the bass.  I used Soho's disc and when I ran 3hz at reference with his -0.5 dBs test I got dark purple at 3hz which is 0 dBs so good to go as level and color is concerned.

 

Great!

 

JSS

[maxmercy]

Excellent. That scene was absolutely wretched to my ears in the theater. However, very fun at home.

Something I'm getting out of your graphs so far, is the concentration is energy around 30 or 40hz. My subs impedance peak in box are at 36hz iirc. I measured but can't remember exactly. So amplifier demands should be low in this region. So I'm encouraged by that. Cause I don't use mega amps.

The IMAX Digital I saw this in does not know what 'headroom' is (neither does any IMAX digital I have ever seen in a film in). Curiously, all of the worst sonic presentations I have ever heard recently were all in 'Audyssey Calibrated' IMAX theaters.

 

http://www.audyssey.com/blog/2011/05/imax-theatres-around-the-world-powered-by-audyssey/

 

Only the quietest effects in these theaters were without OBVIOUS distortion. It was sad. They think that by making a presentation louder it is automatically better. Something tells me no one thought to add 10dB of headroom for the boosts Audyssey can add to program material, and both their amps and speakers are being driven too hard....

 

The true IMAX near me is a cleaner sonic presentation, and never 'holy crap why didn't I bring the earplugs' distortion-riddled loud....but it does not have 'laser aligned' sound......

 

JSS

[maxmercy]

The input is low but the output is good. I just want to make sure there is no clipping and the graphs are the right extension and spl. That last TIH confirmed for me that it is very very close.

 

If you followed my setup instructions, only a 'worst case scenario' of all channels + LFE containing a 0dBFS signal will hit 100% on the signal meter on the right and clip the input.

 

Man, I have to get going on that 7.1 test disc.....

 

Thanks again for doing this MK, the Skyfall post is the best yet with scene descriptors, but the MOST powerful scene on that track is the subway car crashing through the top of and into the tunnel. It asks for an instantaneous 128dB out of a flat system!!

 

JSS

[Bossobass Dave]

Hi James,

 

Nice work, young man!

 

I wanted to mention the decimation feature in Audio I/O. Decimation sounds like a bad word and the 1st tendency we might have is to think that the higher the sampling rate, the better. But the decimation in Audio I/O actually refers to the Nyquist frequency, which is 1/2 of the sampling rate.

 

IOW, if your decimation of the SR is 0, the definition of your FFT settings gets spread out to 24k Hz. That means relatively very little res in the first octaves. Here's a comparo of your 1st Hulk cop car smash scene vs my latest settings, zoomed for scrutiny:

 

 

Here's the same comparo with your decimation tweak:

 

 

You can count the bars of res. In your 1st cap, there are 12 bars from 0-10 Hz (over 3 octaves) and in the 2nd cap you've jumped to over 40 bars. Mine is around 60 bars.

 

I think your settings are great and show enough res for the casual observer.

 

As Nube and Max noted, raise the FL/CC/FR x-overs to 200 Hz to get all of the LFE channel + redirected bass. As you know, I don't have to worry about that.

 

Speaking of roll off, if you get a chance, can you graph the plane crash scene in WOTW? Curious to see what your result is.

 

I see you mentioned the amount of effort it takes to post these graphs, which it def does. Now, if you want to take a pic of the screen at the beginning of your cap and another at the end of your cap with the time stamp at each pic and send me the caps, pics and time stamps, I'll drop them into my template.

 

It's a lot of work but the format is everything, including the title block and Max's awesome peak hold and rating data. As the years fly by, it will be one helluvan archive.

 

Max,

 

Got the disc (TF2) and finally got a chance to pop it into the new Oppo BDP-105. It played with no probs. You're just too cool for words. When I get a chance, I'll SL the 2 versions and use it as an example of what separates a good ST from a great ST.

[MKtheater]

If you followed my setup instructions, only a 'worst case scenario' of all channels + LFE containing a 0dBFS signal will hit 100% on the signal meter on the right and clip the input.

 

Man, I have to get going on that 7.1 test disc.....

 

Thanks again for doing this MK, the Skyfall post is the best yet with scene descriptors, but the MOST powerful scene on that track is the subway car crashing through the top of and into the tunnel. It asks for an instantaneous 128dB out of a flat system!!

 

JSS

I will do the subway scene as well.

[MKtheater]

Hi James,

 

Nice work, young man!

 

I wanted to mention the decimation feature in Audio I/O. Decimation sounds like a bad word and the 1st tendency we might have is to think that the higher the sampling rate, the better. But the decimation in Audio I/O actually refers to the Nyquist frequency, which is 1/2 of the sampling rate.

 

IOW, if your decimation of the SR is 0, the definition of your FFT settings gets spread out to 24k Hz. That means relatively very little res in the first octaves. Here's a comparo of your 1st Hulk cop car smash scene vs my latest settings, zoomed for scrutiny:

 

 

Here's the same comparo with your decimation tweak:

 

 

You can count the bars of res. In your 1st cap, there are 12 bars from 0-10 Hz (over 3 octaves) and in the 2nd cap you've jumped to over 40 bars. Mine is around 60 bars.

 

I think your settings are great and show enough res for the casual observer.

 

As Nube and Max noted, raise the FL/CC/FR x-overs to 200 Hz to get all of the LFE channel + redirected bass. As you know, I don't have to worry about that.

 

Speaking of roll off, if you get a chance, can you graph the plane crash scene in WOTW? Curious to see what your result is.

 

I see you mentioned the amount of effort it takes to post these graphs, which it def does. Now, if you want to take a pic of the screen at the beginning of your cap and another at the end of your cap with the time stamp at each pic and send me the caps, pics and time stamps, I'll drop them into my template.

 

It's a lot of work but the format is everything, including the title block and Max's awesome peak hold and rating data. As the years fly by, it will be one helluvan archive.

 

Max,

 

Got the disc (TF2) and finally got a chance to pop it into the new Oppo BDP-105. It played with no probs. You're just too cool for words. When I get a chance, I'll SL the 2 versions and use it as an example of what separates a good ST from a great ST.

The skyfall graphs I have the cross at 150hz which is the highest my processor goes.  I already did FOTP but the cross was at 80hz so I can do them again if you wish. 

When I run these the screen is 137 inches so I am not sure how good a picture would be from it but something is better than nothing.  I can't help it but I will try to get 60 pixels as well because I could always go back to these.  My next graph will be of the plane crash from FOTP starting with the plane losing it's propeller to whatever fits on the screen for one graph.  I will take a picture of the screen at start with the chapter time showing and then when the graph fills up I will stop it and take the end pic. 

[MKtheater]

Oh yeah Max, I do have the input set just like your instructions. 

[maxmercy]

Skyfall caps added to Skyfall post.

 

If you add some scene descriptions for Cloverfield, I will add those caps to the Cloverfield post.

 

BTW - The ranking system will change soon.  Some films will see a change up, some down, as I will use RMS Peak, Instantaneous Peak and LeqZ SPL levels for the Level and Dynamics Star categories.  I will likely re-vamp the list in July.

 

Currently busy, busy, busy, trying to wrap up my post-grad education and throw a big party/tournament.  Almost done.

 

 

JSS

[MKtheater]

WOW! My equipment barely survived a major thunderstorm last night.  The built in breakers on my main panel worked as all the breakers were tripped.  We had a lightning strike one of our pine trees that was 20 feet from the house and then went into my pool heater.  The pool heater, which is a year old, is fried toast and the tree looks like Darth took a light saber to it.  I was at work and my family described it this way:

They said that they were watching the storm through the glass doors and the skies were clearing up, so the storm was passing.  Then all of a sudden they saw a flash of light and then a powerful sonic boom which they all felt the hair blow back and chest compress!  Talk about close.  Anyways my modem is fried at home so I graphed FOTP again but this time with bass all the way to 120hz and I took pictures of the screen and chapter times.  Here is how a picture will look, can't get the screen caps until the modem is fixed,

 

[Bossobass Dave]

Wow, James...

 

Did you scold your wife for not getting a Spec Lab cap of the strike, time stamp and picture?

 

Seriously, imagine the spectrograph of that! And people say we're nuts. A similarly close strike occurred in our back yard a couple of years ago and it sounded like a nuke went off and shook the entire house. No sub I ever heard could come close to the real event!

 

The pic is fine. The secret to better pics is just to try to point the camera straight at the center of the screen. I crop and sharpen them before I drop them into the template, so it's not critical otherwise. Just drop them (jpeg format) into a folder and title them so I know which is for what and send via e-mail.

 

I've been busy testing new stuff so I haven't had the time to tear the wires up to do movie caps and then put everything back into test mode, but I can format yours (and anyone else's) from this computer in my office, no prob.

 

One last thing... We originally, including input from Josh, decided on 3 caps per flick. Since then, I usually use the star rating as my guide. 5 star soundtracks deserve 5 caps, 4 star: 4 caps, etc. The better the soundtrack, usually the more cap-worthy scenes are available.

 

IOW, don't send 20 caps per flick. Trust me, the novelty of wanting to "see" every scene you've been listening to for years will wear off quickly and you'll settle into doing less caps just because it's too much data otherwise. It will save me from having to decide which ones to use and which ones not to use because we generally use 3 caps and don't go over 5 caps per flick.

[MKtheater]

OK, good enough, 5 caps for this movie then.  I will pick the obvious ones from the plane crash.  I used my iphone for the pic just to do it quick so the quality is just so so.

[maxmercy]

Lightning strikes are tough, and the subsequent thunder is in the 165-180dB range 'in close proximity'. Since a few feet away it is a shock wave, it is prob in the high 190s. The rarefaction is limited, so it is a very high peak followed by a shallower dip.

 

The most 'surprise factor' thing about thunder is the fact that the sonic background is usually 30-50dB, then BAM! 100+dB over background hits you. The most a film can deliver is around 90dB dynamics (counting 30dB background sound on the track, or combo of projector noise, HVAC, etc. even if silence is on the track), but usually is closer to 30-40dB, as the score is usually carrying on at 65-80dB....if not more.

 

JSS

[djbluemax1]

The most 'surprise factor' thing about thunder is the fact that the sonic background is usually 30-50dB, then BAM! 100+dB over background hits you. The most a film can deliver is around 90dB dynamics (counting 30dB background sound on the track, or combo of projector noise, HVAC, etc. even if silence is on the track), but usually is closer to 30-40dB, as the score is usually carrying on at 65-80dB....if not more.

 

JSS

With heavy rainfall (and or wind) in a typical thunderstorm, I'd say the noise floor is more like 50-60db, but I get your point. It's one of the tricks that they used in MI4, in the Kremlin explosion and especially the car crash: low ambient leels, then suddenly BOOOM! The first time I watrched MI4 was in my HT and I'd had a long day and was pretty tired and began to drift in and out. That car crash scene definitely woke me up and I stayed awake for the rest of the movie.

 

 

Max

[FOH]

It's one of the tricks that they used in MI4, in the Kremlin explosion and especially the car crash: low ambient leels, then suddenly BOOOM! The first time I watrched MI4 was in my HT and I'd had a long day and was pretty tired and began to drift in and out. That car crash scene definitely woke me up and I stayed awake for the rest of the movie.

 

 

Max

 

You're right, I too really enjoy a well executed use of dynamics,...setting the scene aurally, then suddenly BAM, a full spectral wallop in your face!

 

There's certainly many great examples, however upon reading your MI4 reference, I immediately remembered the really well done use of this type of effect in Drive, and one particularly stunning, out of nowhere big transient effect contained in the film. For starters, the story is nice and subtle, quietly relying on dialog and compelling storyline. Then it ramps up nicely   .  I don't remember as being much a an ULF contender, but it was likely one of those whereby I entirely lose myself, forgetting to make mental notes wrt soundtrack specifics, etc...and that's a good thing.     

 

It's somewhat akin and similar to Jazz musicians, and the manner in which they quiet the crowd and really pull you in with dynamics, only to dynamically peak appropriately at the right time.  

 

----

 

James, I'm glad everyone was safe. It's interesting that your breakers tripped, at least any potentially connected devices were essentially removed from potential damaging voltages that may have occurred from that point on. That said, clearly a big surge was encountered, and I think you were quite lucky. As well regarded and recommended whole house surge protection, etc, is, nothing fully protects you in the event of the potential effects of nearby lightning, wicked stuff. If you're so inclined, you may perform visual examination of your panel, I'm guessing everything is fine but multiple breakers tripping is a significant event.     

 

Best of luck

[lfe man]

Nice work mktheater.

[MKtheater]

Thanks LFEman.

 

FOH,

Almost all of the breakers were tripped but how about this for lucky. My pool heater is fine even with a fire started by lightning on top of it. The only thing that suffered a loss was my cable modem and time warner cable is here now fixing it, I hope.

 

My kids were really scared that night going to bed and after they fell asleep I cranked up Van Helsing and they woke up thinking another storm was coming.

[djbluemax1]

MKT, good to hear the lightning damage was minimal. I wonder how well those surge protectors that go between the cable connections work? Were you using one of those?

 

 

Max

[MKtheater]

I have no surge protection from my equipment. The main panel has some kind of device on it that it supposed to protect. The lighting used times Warner's ground cable to attach to and fried the plate in the pole and fried some telephone wires but all fixed now. I will get some graphs up again this weekend.

[maxmercy]

Great to hear no permanent damage.  Thanks again for the scene-caps!!!  I need to get going on some new (and old) films....

 

JSS

[MKtheater]

Any films we want more than others besides going down the list?

[maxmercy]

Underworld:Awakening and FOTP would be good to start with....

 

JSS

[MKtheater]

FOTP:

 

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[MKtheater]