FOH Posted April 20, 2013 Report Share Posted April 20, 2013 wtf ..? I'm just incredulous at this. I've not really given any effort toward learning the reason why, I've not seen it, nor does it interest me. However, is there any explanation bantered about? Any conjecture, professional or otherwise, as to what transpired? I realize there are those that enjoyed this release, that's cool. I've not seen any movies in weeks. I enjoy releases that many may similarly consider uninteresting. But all said, those that are familiar, is this thing really that anemic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmercy Posted April 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2013 Supposedly, FilmMixer was looking into it.....he thought the LFE channel was omitted altogether, IIRC. JSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOH Posted April 20, 2013 Report Share Posted April 20, 2013 Gotcha, thanks, I'll poke around and see what else I find, unbelievable. Bosso, thanks for taking the time and effort to measure, examine, and submit. Not really related to this thread, but had to share. Last night I finally got around to watching Goldeneye. A favourite of mine ever since I went to see it in theaters as a young teenager. Really not that long ago, yet watching it was just hilarious how bad the sound was. Especially the LFE. In my mind I remember it as huge explosions, tanks, gun fire, etc. Not quite how I remember it. The new movies have come so far. The sound tracks on this thread's list are so good, even the 3/5 ones. I still love the movie, but it'll always be better how I remembered it back in the day. I'm not sure about a release such as Goldeneye, but I find it refreshing to discover re-mix efforts put forth to re-release some movies in a more contemporary fashion ... in a 5.1, or maybe even 7.1 format. Again, as long as it's executed well. Additionally, anyone notice the high quality/quantity sound associated with TV shows, such as the hour crime dramas? In particular long running The Mentalist, Blue Bloods, and the newer Goldenboy. Blue Bloods has some huge deep bass pulses, although not that frequent. The new Goldenboy though, has had some spectacular surprising deep stuff. The Mentalist, has this great underlying music, with a nice deep spectral balance, and they utilize this often throughout the hour long episodes. With kids, we've got to be somewhat careful what they're exposed to. They dig the action drama associated with these shows, and there's no unpredictable inapproprite stuff popping up. Since we only have the one big primary system, anything we watch has the full capability. I do pull down the subs with news content, etc. But some of those dramas have well executed effects. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djbluemax1 Posted April 20, 2013 Report Share Posted April 20, 2013 Supposedly, FilmMixer was looking into it.....he thought the LFE channel was omitted altogether, IIRC. JSS Omitted or improperly recorded/transferred for the BD (is the speculation anyway). And Dave, I think, the one sole instance of a teeny bit of bass is at the very end with the 'eye-opener' (to avoid spoiling it for folks who haven't seen it). Overall though, as I said, even more of a disappointment than Avengers. At least Avengers had a lot of 30Hz stuff. This movie didn't really even have that. Max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nube Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 The Hobbit is a fine example of my gratitude to the guys who "get it early" and post about it online. It helped me avoid wasting time and/or money to find out firsthand that the film has an utter lack of LFE. I, too, am waiting for Marc to chime in on why the mix was so clearly neutered. I find it hard to imagine that effects with 20hz and lower content were completely removed from the mix, or were never created to begin with. It's shocking, especially so given the exceptional mixes on the original LOTR trilogy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossobass Dave Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 Omitted or improperly recorded/transferred for the BD (is the speculation anyway). And Dave, I think, the one sole instance of a teeny bit of bass is at the very end with the 'eye-opener' (to avoid spoiling it for folks who haven't seen it). Overall though, as I said, even more of a disappointment than Avengers. At least Avengers had a lot of 30Hz stuff. This movie didn't really even have that. Max Thanks, Max. I'll eventually check it out all the way to the end (maybe), but really... look at that graph! The majority of it occurs ABOVE the typical 80 Hz crossover, above the SW bandwidth altogether for most HTs. I'm with FOH here... I just dunno what to think. Imagine sitting in a mix situation on a big budget flick like this one and sitting through the whole ... 3 friggin' hours... of it and not once saying out loud, "WTF happened to the low end?" Arrrrgh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmercy Posted April 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 Looking into The Hobbit, gonna analyze the individual channel files. JSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmercy Posted April 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 Bosso, I echo the thanks for the graph. Thanks for the info, DJBM. It is sad that things like this are overlooked, but the 'nearfield' mixing rooms I have seen pics of are nowhere near capable. It is as if the 'home mix' rooms are literally that.....equipped like the average home, where BestBuy offerings reign supreme......oh well....again. The Hobbit is JACKED UP. Not sure what the hell went on there, as there was potential for this film. As Bosso said and found out, the LFE channel has both a shelf filter that starts dropping at 45 Hz, and then a highpass at 10Hz on top of it. The center channel has a shelf at 30Hz, without the highpass at 10Hz (the lowest digging channel). The L/R channels start dropping at 50-60Hz with again another 10Hz highpass. The surround channels are all alike starting their highpass at 65-80Hz, with the BL and BR channels slightly different than the SR SL channels... I'll post individual graphs of the channels tomorrow. I wonder if the 'Battleship' crew mixed this film as well? Saw previews for Iron Man 3. I hope it does not get the same treatment. JSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuxedocivic Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 A disgrace. Terrible. A waste. No excuse. And to think of the following this film has. I know when Gladiator hit blu ray all the videophiles flipped out enough that WB re-released it without the EE and other video issues. IMO this is the same failure, only on the audio side and deserves a re-release. I certainly wouldn't buy this. Sickening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmercy Posted April 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 Attached are the Hobbit individual channel graphs. And to add insult to injury, the Center Channel is clipped at -2dB. Solid work, fellas. SOLID. JSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuxedocivic Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 In the theatre I heard a hard clip when the dragon smashes into the castle. Real hard. Front and center. Any chance this is the center channel clip you're referring to Max? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmercy Posted April 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 All 3 front channels are clipped, at around -2dB. It is as if a limiter was used, or a 'hard compressor' of some sort. Surrounds and LFE are good, though. I have found that films that are high passed exhibit these 'clipped tops' at under 0dBFS. I think FOH may be right....there may be a loudness war going on, sacrificing bandwidth for sheer SPL, especially at higher freqs where we perceive it to be louder. I'm not going to bother graphing the bass-managed film. The Day After Tomorrow is next, I should get to it sometime in the next few days, and then comes the task of re-doing the ranking system based on the SPL readings + PvA graphs..... JSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infrasonic Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 I just realized that U-571 is not on this list. It used to and still sort of is a decent bass flick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmercy Posted April 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 U-571 added to queue! JSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmercy Posted April 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 The Day After Tomorrow: Level - 4 Stars (110.9dB) Extension - 5 Stars (5Hz) Dynamics - 5 Stars (31.4dB) Execution - 4 Stars by Poll Overall - 4.5 Stars! Recommendation - Rent via Poll JSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOH Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 Thanks for the Day After Tomorrow measurements. Haven't seen it so long, but that big spike of energy down at 5-6hz does appear interesting. Examining IMDB, I see Harry Cohen, the Sound Designer, worked on The Patriot, Kill Bill, Star Trek, Nine, Abe Lincoln-Hunter, and the recent Django. It would appear Tarantino likes his work. In addition to the well documented deep effects of Star Trek and Nine, I do recall the exquisite artillery fire in Patriot. One of my fave effects ... distant, yet powerful explosions, bathed in reverberant goodness that illuminates the surroundings. Properly executed, it places the listener right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmercy Posted April 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 That is quite the resume! JSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infrasonic Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Thanks for Day After Tomorrow! Surprised there isn't more 10-25hz content. Oh well. That 5hz peak comes from the scene where the UK helicopters get caught in the 'eye' of the storm. Similar to BHD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmercy Posted April 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 Next up: Die Hard (yes, the first one).... JSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuxedocivic Posted April 26, 2013 Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 Love the movie, but didn't think there was any ULF. Have it on Blu and don't think I've cracked it open yet. Watched my DVD copy many times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infrasonic Posted April 26, 2013 Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 I think it rolls off pretty steep ~40hz. But we will see! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nube Posted April 27, 2013 Report Share Posted April 27, 2013 I re-watched The Day After Tomorrow. It's still a rental in my mind. However, from the very start, it's chocked full of bass. Some of it is superfluous, but lots of it is used to good effect. I gave it a 5 for execution. It's not like it's The Man With The Iron Fist or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmercy Posted April 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 Received Knowing today, it'll get graphed sometime this coming week. JSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
club968 Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 I kind of dismissed Day After Tomorrow after seeing it once a while ago. After looking at the graphs and now having a system to take advantage of the LFE I rewatched it again a couple of days ago. I think the bass definitely adds a new dimension to the film. Makes the storms taking place throughout the world more menacing. It was so fun to watch that I've watched it 3 times in the past 48 hrs, LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmercy Posted May 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 Knowing graph and rating tomorrow. Die Hard graph as well, only 30Hz on that one. JSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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