maxmercy

The Low Frequency Content Thread (films, games, music, etc)

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Regarding The DKR, I'm going to have to rent this to find out what you're referring to.

 

"The sound is done poorly ... lack of crispness and overall 'honky' and 'compressed' sound ... it lacks quality"

 

The above, for a major release, seems bizzare to me. I mean, regardless of budget, the sound found on DVD/BD releases of films is typically acceptable in the audible characteristics of "crispness", "honky", and "compressed sounding".

 

That's just not acceptable, wth is going on? Especially the high passing, don't get it ... then again never heard/read it really explained by anyone.

 

 

Now this;

"does the damn score have to be blaring at nearly 95dB while dialogue is going on?"

can be merely artistic decision, mistake, who knows ... whatever. Different strokes

 

I agree on the second part, but when you see the BD version of this film, can you please comment on the overall quality of the audio? It just seemed, for lack of a better term, 'bad'......I thought it was the theater's speakers being driven way past compression, but I watched it at -12dBRef on my system (5dB of headroom above 5%THD), and it still sounded as if I was pushing the speakers too hard....I have to chalk it up to either poor technique or artistic license.

 

I'll link bosso's scenecaps for TDKR and TASM right now.

 

JSS

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Welcome reddman!

 

The highpassing issue looks like it hits certain releases and not others, it almost seems random, but two of the biggest releases (Avengers&TDKR) were high passed, TDKR to a lesser extent. Avengers is a better sounding mix, IMO, but the highpassing took the guts out of it. MIB3 and Battleship also were high passed, but we had some good extension this year as well, TASM, TR, U:A, WotT come to mind.

 

I really believe we got the theatrical mix for TDKR. It definitely pulls no punches, and there is not any near field mixing room has subs that can throw out 125dB that I know of. It also sounded very similar to my theatrical experience, but the addition of the ULF material in the prologue scene was great in my basement.

 

One thing that theatrical mixes on BD have is the fact that there are hardly any theatrical LCR and Surround speakers that can go below 40Hz, and all of that gets redirected to the sub in a bass managed setup, requiring very capable subwoofer support in home.

 

I remember discussing LF support in theaters with John Allen of HPS4000, whose horn-loaded main speakers are impressive at 109dB sensitivity, but that only dig to 40Hz with their ~45Hz tuning. The HPS4000 sub system is simply more of the same horn subs, that can reach a little lower due to mutual horn coupling. I'll see if I can dig up the conversation, but he did not have much to say about content below, noting that 35Hz and above were still 'subwoofer frequencies'. Don't get me wrong: I think his approach to headroom is awesome, and he designs systems that will have 6-8dB of headroom when asked to play at peak volumes. There is an HPS4000 theater about 3.5 hours from me, and I may check it out sometime. If he had some 15-20Hz tapped or front-loaded horns to beef up that LFE channel below the 45Hz horns it would make for the best theater systems anywhere.

 

Mr Allen also sets up each theater with a modified X-Curve and custom acoustic treatment, and I would like to hear the difference, as I think the X-Curve to be an outdated solution to theater alignment. He has a tremendous article on his site titled 'The Mythical X-Curve'. Good reading.

 

JSS

 

I agree with you. I also think Avengers has a better sounding mix than TDKR but that 30hz HPF just kills the overall impact the track could have. I'll be screening TR this weekend.

 

I remember reading about John Allen's HPS4000 theater systems. I've always wanted to hear one but sadly, I'm not even remotely close to a HPS theater to check it out.

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Hi guys.

I watched the Hurt Locker on BD the other night.

Thoughts/charts on that one?

I'd be interested to see some of those explosions graphed.

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Going to check out Dredd (2012) this weekend, there is a rumor of ULF B)

 

Sweet! Loved that one but I won't getting mine for another week.

 

Hi guys.

I watched the Hurt Locker on BD the other night.

Thoughts/charts on that one?

I'd be interested to see some of those explosions graphed.

 

The .50cal scene reaches DEEP!

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Dredd and Hurt Locker are in the queue. This weekend no charts, but hopefully a good tutorial for creating scene-caps.

 

Ricci, can I get more upload space? I'll PM Kyle. I have been deleting MaxMin and Dynamics graphs for each film as they age, but am starting to run out again....

 

There are 44 films in the queue, and the databas will be 100-strong at that point.

 

 

JSS

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Went by the store and Dredd wasn't released yet.. Couldn't resist though and got myself a pre-release ;)

I'm definitely buying this one. I just sampled the first 5 min and it's all there, level, extension, mid-bass.. reminds me of underworld with a little less 30-40hz and a little more ULF so far. I just had to pause the movie to break the good news :-p

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Good news! It is #1 in the queue....If there are no nays, Immortals is getting the bump up.

 

JSS

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Well,

 

I thought there is NO WAY TDKR is that hot......so....

 

I was looking over my settings and it seems I may have had TDKR on too hot (didn't set my AVR speaker levels correctly prior to running the PvA), so I'll have to wait to run it again when I get it from Netflix with the proper settings. I did TDKR in a rush, while family was in town, hence the mistake. I think it will still pack a punch, but not a full 10dBHz above everything else.

 

JSS

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TDKR graph corrected. It still comes in at 4 Stars overall, with 120+dB RMS peaks on the SPL meter, and an LeqZ of 99.1dB.

 

The Watch is up next...

 

JSS

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The Watch:

Level - 3 Stars (108.29dB composite)
Extension - 3 Stars (17Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (31.25dB)
Execution - 4 Stars - Mainly because it was such a surprise. This film seems louder than it is because of the dynamics. It graphs a lot like Thor, 20Hz HP.

Overall - 3.75 Stars

Recommendation - Rent. I thought the film was horrible, but funny.

JSS

 

post-17-0-26865900-1403631508_thumb.png

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Rewatching Daredevil (2003). What an excellent use of bass and ULF in particular in this movie, it really adds something and was definitely included intentional and not random.

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DareDevil is in the queue.

But I have an announcement: 2012 ended with a BANG. Here's Looper:
 

LooperTitleBlock_zps04f9ed81.JPG

LooperPvA_zps2e3b8f29.JPG

Looper1_zpsc85c0f9d.JPG

Looper2_zps6e5de6e2.JPG

Looper3_zps7c10163f.JPG

Level - 4 Stars (111.27dB composite)
Extension - 5 Stars (7 Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (28.49dB)
Execution - 5 Stars - This film has it all, the sub-20Hz stuff was used sparingly and effectively, some great upper bass punch as well. it curiously looks like Underworld:Awakening, with the 28Hz spike in Avg level. I am glad 2012 rebounded with a few excellent MWBs.

Overall - 4.75 Stars!

Recommendation - I say Buy. This is a very unique take on time travel, and it is not just a graphics festival.


JSS

post-20-0-61733800-1385083545_thumb.jpg

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Rewatching Daredevil (2003). What an excellent use of bass and ULF in particular in this movie, it really adds something and was definitely included intentional and not random.

 

Hahah! I just watched it too (rifftrax). Definitely worth graphing for bass. The 5.1 mix is rather good too.

 

Aha! I knew Looper had the goods. Even with limited extension at the cinema I can just tell somehow. No highpass filters at my place maybe? :P

 

Good f**kin' times!

 

 

Max, do you mind explaining the LeqZ and RMS things in the Looper chart? Thanks. :o

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LeqZ is the Equivalent SPL Level with Z (zero) weighting. OSHA standards are A-weight based.

 

RMS Peak is the highest peak is the dB reading that an SPL meter would measure with no weighting on a flat to 2Hz system.

 

It is a way to measure films that tells you how loud overall a track is, and the highest peak, counting all freqs, esp if the PvA graph doesn't look so impressive, as with many wideband effects.

 

JSS

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I watched Looper the other day. I just switched over to BR with Netflix (nearest Family Video to me is over an hour away). The DVD is as anemic as the rest of the recent spate of comparos I've done, making it useless as a metric. Otherwise, I'd have posted the doc for it by now.

 

I guess they're looking to assure themselves that everyone will replace his current library with BR versions, but just don't know.

 

I may just buy the BR of Loopers, but really this is a crock of excrement that the 2 versions are so different. Oh well, Loopers doc delayed, so stand by...

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No prob,

 

Whenever you have time.....I still have to get a test disc and scene cap tutorial up....

 

JSS

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I agree with the RE rating Max. Almost every one of them has been the same: loud and repetitive.

 

It's sad too because I actually liked the RE movies. No they're not going to win any Oscars, but I love Zombie flicks and games so of course I enjoyed them. Except Retribution was awful. The action is always nice but the acting was so bad I laughed most of the time. Thank god Milla still looks good.

 

I can't wait to watch Looper now. A friend of mine told me he watched it yesterday and the bass was impressive. A 5 star though?!! Nice.

 

Hey Max do you think you could graph Chronicle when you get a chance? I watched it the other day and I forgot how much bass it had. I'm interested to see its rating.

 

Thanks again to you and Bosso for all the work.

 

 

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I watched Looper the other day. I just switched over to BR with Netflix (nearest Family Video to me is over an hour away). The DVD is as anemic as the rest of the recent spate of comparos I've done, making it useless as a metric. Otherwise, I'd have posted the doc for it by now.

 

I guess they're looking to assure themselves that everyone will replace his current library with BR versions, but just don't know.

 

I may just buy the BR of Loopers, but really this is a crock of excrement that the 2 versions are so different. Oh well, Loopers doc delayed, so stand by...

Wow. We know from M&C that the DVD audio can definitely go low and loud, so this move is a deliberate marketing ploy by the studios to castrate the audio on DVDs. And I don't know how many rental BDs from Netflix and Blockbuster have the recent trend to exclude the lossless tracks from rentals but this is really some BS.

 

Especially with the DVDs, because the folks still stuck on DVDs probably are completely unaware that they're getting shafted on the audio too. I mean everyone's aware of the SD vs HD difference in video between DVD and BD, but no one really thought that studios were deliberately castrating the audio tracks specifically on the DVDs.

 

 

Max

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Maxmercy, I will give a listen to TDKR, and lt you know, as those really are interesting findings. FWIW; ...when we rent, we rent BR from Family Video.

 

 

We enjoyed Looper a few days ago. And yeah, with my ample sub system, subjectively it sure seemed nicely extended and quite stout. Max, you're spot on, as it's an interestingly fresh take on the idea.

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DareDevil is in the queue.

 

But I have an announcement: 2012 ended with a BANG. Here's Looper:

 

Level - 5 Stars (268.76)

Extension - 5 Stars (2 Hz)

Dynamics - 5 Stars (28.2dB)

Execution - 5 Stars - This film has it all, the sub-20Hz stuff was used sparingly and effectively, some great upper bass punch as well. it curiously looks like Underworld:Awakening, with the 28Hz spike in Avg level. I am glad 2012 rebounded with a few excellent MWBs.

 

LeqZ - 95.8dB

RMS Peak - 116.3dB

 

Overall - 5 STARS!

 

Recommendation - I say Buy. This is a very unique take on time travel, and it is not just a graphics festival.

 

 

JSS

 

 

Max,

I have a dumb question: was this for BD version of Looper?

I was going to rent at my local video, but all copies were out and while I was at Target yesterday, I picked up a copy on BD.

While watching it, the level was somewhat quiet and really had to turn it up. Plus, the LFE was weak for me.

 

I am thinking I may have gotten a bad copy.

Anyone else have problems?

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