maxmercy

The Low Frequency Content Thread (films, games, music, etc)

3,976 posts in this topic

Ricci, once solid FFT bin widths are determined, any chance we would be able to integrate this data permanently into data-bass.com like the driver ratings, with quick comparos a click away?

 

JSS

 

Anything website related is Kyle's call. He did all of the actual programming and work. I just provided feedback and suggestions. I'm sure we can get something done. It may be awhile though as he already has some projects related to uploading measurement data into DB that need worked out to improve ease of use and he just moved or is still in process of moving right now.

 

Kyle,

If you get a chance...

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Max, will update when you post the data as I read you have HTTYD. This is one of my favorites and that last cap where the Red Death dragon crashes into the ground never ceases to amaze me. DAY-Ummm :lol:

 

Look at the variety of effects RT created for this one and the way the effects build to the climax throughout the movie. Simply awesome. It seems Rizzo has mixed many of the movies RT has designed the sound for, and has has one impressive list of MWB.

 

This one was a pleasure to doc.

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Have some woodworking to do, tutorial and updating to do, and then if I have time will graph HTTYD today.

 

This warm weather is allowing me to finish projects I didn't think I would get to until Spring.

 

As far as the FFT, I will still graph the 1Hz one, and as I get time, or others contribute, we will fill in the 2Hz resolution PHvA graphs.only if some significant differences are noted will the ranking scheme change.

 

As far as JRMC, if SpecLab will be able to be 'plugged in' to a bass-managed output, I will definitely consider using it, as long as JRMC is not super $$. Not having to correct roll off would be great.

 

JSS

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HTTYD is a ULF monster. It is the second time I have ever recorded above 115dB (WotW is the first). It is at 2-3Hz. Graphs tomorrow. Overall 4.5, if more >50Hz effects would have been used, easy 5 overall.

 

I can see why you like this one, bosso....

 

JSS

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The first time we viewed HTTYD, I was stunned. Not only is the LF effects demanding, plentiful etc, the soundtrack is just superbly executed IMO. In addition to the big 3hz wallops, the nuance and minutia are wonderfully satisfying.

 

WRT the big finale, it's the scene I often recommend it as just about as demanding as it gets. I also remember the spectros someone put up @AVS, likely Bosso. Ever since I saw those, in addition to recommending the film, that scene etc., I'd include those link to those graphs illustrating just how wicked those effects are.

 

Wonderful film as well.

 

Thanks for running those. DAY-Ummm is right.

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OK guys, sorry to hold out so long, very busy at work, as it is our recruiting season.

But, I have FOUR for you today. Let's start with the also-rans:

SuckerPunch:

Level - 1 Star (102.77dB composite). 
Extension - 1 Star (30Hz)
Dynamics - 3 Stars (24.44dB)
Execution - 2 Stars - Wow, what a let down. With the visuals in this film, this could have been a monster mix. Instead, in with the also-rans.....

Overall - 1.75 Stars. Another 'could have been'......

Recommendation - Rent only for the visuals, maybe it could be played on mute as a party is going on...


Speed Racer:

Level - 2 Stars (106.32dB composite). 
Extension - 4 Stars (13Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (28.32) 
Execution - 3 Stars - Decent mix, just not very loud, and filtered. The dynamic range is there, the effects are great, but it just has to be turned up a few dB!

Overall - 3.5 Stars. Not bad. Great visuals, and campy, just like the old TV show. Damn I love the Mach 5. Not fond of the Mach 6.

Recommendation - Rent.

JSS

post-20-0-60269900-1384717623_thumb.jpg

post-20-0-02394900-1384739537_thumb.jpg

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Now onto some better stuff.

Prometheus:

Level - 3 Stars (108.67dB)
Extension - 3 Stars (17Hz)
Dynamics - 3 Stars (24.87dB)
Execution - 4 Stars - Could have used some more level, but decent overall. Reminded me of the Iron Man films.

Overall - 3.25 Stars. Nice, but not enough to deal with the big boys.

 

post-17-0-46650300-1395329165_thumb.png

Recommendation - Rent. This is a good film, but has big holes in it. For the best and funniest critique, please read this:

http://www.toplessro...metheus_faq.php

JSS

Prometheus_zpsd9d9e94e.JPG

Prometheus-b_zps12571c09.JPG

Prometheusc_zps17cbe7f4.JPG

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HTTYDTitleBlock-1.JPG

HTTYDPHvA.PNG

HTTYD1.JPG

HTTYD2.JPG

HTTYD3.JPG

HTTYD4.JPG

HTTYD5.JPG

And finally one worth posting about.

How to Train Your Dragon:

Level - 4 Stars (112.3dB composite)
Extension - 5 Stars (2Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (31.35dB)
Execution - 5 Stars - What FOH and Bosso said.

Overall - 4.75 Stars - Add some effects above 60Hz with some weight and you rival WotW.

Recommendation - Buy, just like the above folks said.  Terrific soundtrack, great film.

Yes, that graph is correct. The signal asks your speakers to play back a 2Hz tone at 117.8dB at one point.



JSS

post-20-0-15290200-1384616527_thumb.jpg

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I am still working on the tutorial, and I will update the first post index as I get time.....

 

JSS

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Alien vs Predator:

Beginning of film:
AVPdcintro.gif
Ship Fires on Earth:
AVPshipflythrough.gif
DVD Menu
AVPmenu.gif

Level - 4 Stars (110.5dB composite)
Extension - 2 Stars (23Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (30.02dB) 
Execution - 4 Stars.

Overall - 3.75 Stars

Recommendation - Rent. Everything below 30Hz is in the first 3 minutes of the film, one scene in particular, about 1 second's worth.

JSS

post-20-0-09312200-1398221681_thumb.jpg

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All 1st post links updated. I will keep using the 1Hz/1sec FFT. If someone thinks that some films are getting shortchanged, let me know and I will run at 2Hz/0.5sec FFT.

 

JSS

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For the past several years I have analyzed the bass content in movies using JRiver Media Center and various VST plugins. This several advantages:

  • You know the exact dBFS level of the audio at any given spot
  • You can easily see the bass in any channel or the combined bass using bass management
  • You can see if bass management results in greater than 0 dBFS since you can monitor this digitally before the final output
  • There is no rolloff that needs to be accounted for
  • You get the exact same results on any system

There are also some disadvantages:

  • The VST plugins with a high FFT block size don't include a spectrum analyzer. However you can very accurately show maximum and average output. I have verified with soho54's test DVD.
  • The VST plugins with a spectrum analyzer only go to 10 Hz. I have inquired with the developer of one program and since the plugin is also used for live audio, they didn't wan to go with larger FFT's or lower frequencies
  • The VST spectrum analyzers only show 10 seconds at a time.

Since Speclab allows it to receive audio data from other programs (Options > Audio Settings > AD/DA server) I have inquired if JRiver would be interested in writing an output plugin to work with Speclab. Matt at JRiver has shown interest and I am trying to get some more info from Wolf at the Speclab Yahoo Group.

 

If this works out, one could playback a movie in JRiver and output directly to Speclab without any cables/soundcard/receiver being in the signal chain. This would make scene caps easier and more consistent. With the addition of the dtsdecoderdll.dll file from an Arcsoft trial version, JRiver can decode all audio formats. You can also quickly switch audio streams for comparison purposes.

 

Is there any interest in this method or suggestions?

 

Mojave, would you be interested in providing Peak and Average dBFS output for a bass-managed, SW out for specific films as a comparison to what I am currently doing? If the SpecLab connection with JRMC can be made, that would be great.

 

JSS

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Exclusive preview... Dark Knight Rises:

 

There is one scene in this movie with effects that aren't filtered:

 

 

DKRises445.png

 

The rest of this film, including The Bat flying machine, is FAT (Filtered At Thirty), as in 30 Hz:

 

DKRises.png

 

I didn't have the gumption after seeing this Avengers soundtrack pasted onto the much awaited DK Rises, so you'll have to wait for the full report, but there you have it. Another great film neutered by unknown person or persons...

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Is this DVD or Blu? Damn, I was expecting a lot down to 20Hz or thereabouts from this one after seeing it in IMAX digital......

 

JSS

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Either a movie's unfiltered and the level leaves something to be desired, or the level is A+ and they neuter it. #@*!

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It's the BR from the triple disc set, bought today in anticipation of a great low end soundtrack. The movie is agonizingly long and not worth the buy, IMO. I took a calculated risk based on previous Batman films and lost.

 

I'll be sailing it out the window after doing the doc on it, so anyone interested can stand under the dormer window of my HT with a catcher's mitt.

 

I'll check the DVD once I have the BR (DTS-HD MA) doc done.

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Damn. Looks like I'll be waiting for it on the 'Flix...

 

FilmMixer, is there any way we can find out where near field mixes (if any) were done for a soundtrack?

 

JSS

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I too saw it in digital IMAX, ... what a disappointment to discover there's no deep LF/ULF foundation to those effects.

 

Thanks for running that Bosso.

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Max, on the AvP post... is that the mildly extended version with the alternate beginning? I am thinking so and that the most dynamic part (and upper 20's, low 30's peak) is right at the end of that sequence. I graphed that a long time ago from the dvd. Might have to see if I still have those waterfalls for that one.

 

Bosso, totally not surprised wrt DKR bass. It was definitely a 30hz fest for the most part. Disappointing. However, what part was it that got that super loud and deep?

 

 

Yup. Found some old graphs of AvP. They might not be properly calibrated. I did them when I very first started doing graphs. :unsure:

 

Beginning: AVPdcintro.gif

 

Ship fires on Earth: AVPshipflythrough.gif

 

AvP dvd menu: AVPmenu.gif

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WTF! I am getting sick and tired of great movies getting castrated under 30hz! I find myself not caring about the clipping in Tron and immortals because besides a few occasions the sons tracks are top notch. I put in the DKR and watched the airplane scene and I actually think you can hear a limiter or something. It sounded distorted. Some of the soundtrack sounded like the mic was too close as well. Too loud due to bad recording where LOTR was just loud and clear. Damn, what the hell is going on at the studios, they should be getting better, not worse! It seems since changing from Bagend sealed subs to Meyer ported the bass now is filtered and sounds exactly like the cinema. I guess all those awesome unfiltered tracks were just too much for their uber expensive ported subs now and we all have to suffer. I can build some BFM THT's and call it a day, wait, they are too deep for these movies. I can just build some towers and no need for subs. All the best bass movies are old, crap!

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What's the general consensus at which point in the process whereby this neutering transpires?

 

A release that's high-passed across the board, is one thing. However, a release whereby exceptions are made and a single scene possesses the full extension (and all the realism that accompanies fully extended effects), that should be afforded to the entire soundtrack ..... makes no sense. Total bullshit.

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WTF! I am getting sick and tired of great movies getting castrated under 30hz! I find myself not caring about the clipping in Tron and immortals because besides a few occasions the sons tracks are top notch. I put in the DKR and watched the airplane scene and I actually think you can hear a limiter or something. It sounded distorted. Some of the soundtrack sounded like the mic was too close as well. Too loud due to bad recording where LOTR was just loud and clear. Damn, what the hell is going on at the studios, they should be getting better, not worse! It seems since changing from Bagend sealed subs to Meyer ported the bass now is filtered and sounds exactly like the cinema. I guess all those awesome unfiltered tracks were just too much for their uber expensive ported subs now and we all have to suffer. I can build some BFM THT's and call it a day, wait, they are too deep for these movies. I can just build some towers and no need for subs. All the best bass movies are old, crap!

 

I heard audible distortion in DKR with the firing up of the 'Bat' in IMAX digital. That made me think it would have lots of subsonics since they use ported subs that I thought were flailing trying to reproduce below tuning. Apparently it may have just been heavy hands at the mixing console like in Immortals, with limiters doing some of the soft clipping.

 

You say that it sounds "exactly like in the cinema". There are some folks in the movie-making business who want EXACTLY this, the same presentation for both venues, home and cinema, and high-passing is a way of guaranteeing it to a certain extent. I really hope that is not so.

 

As far as mic'ing and the overall distorted sound of DKR, I have yet to see it on BD. I have read that IMAX cameras are so noisy that audio must be nearly completely re-constructed in post production, but with the same sound team as Dark Knight, I cannot see them dropping the ball like this. Maybe a near-field mix is to blame? Who knows. I probably will not buy it. The story alone is not enough to watch it again, I thought the sound would make up for it, esp with the poor, distorted presentation that IMAX digital gave me with shrill vocals and 'punches' which actually were near the limit of ear pain. I'll wait for it on Rental, be it Redbox or Netflix. I hope that because Lionsgate is just involved and not running the whole show, that we may actually get HD audio on the rental discs....

 

Here's something we may not have thought of:

 

If we have brought enough attention to the ULF content in films through AVS and this site, that enough film-folks have taken notice, and also note that it cannot be monitored on mixing stages or sound editing rooms, we may have doomed ourselves out of more ULF. I sincerely hope not, I wish some of the film professionals could experience the great ULF mixes on a flat-to-10Hz-or-under system.

 

But economics may be at work here as well. Mixes 'for the home' probably assume TV speakers in general, with a smaller percentage having 5.1 HTIB, 7.1 HTIB, and actually capable systems in that diminishing order. The true reference-capable to 25Hz with low disortion home setups are probably few. The true reference to single digits with low distortion are probably fewer. I have visited websites for a few post facilities that have done near-field mixes for films, and the speakers in those rooms are not what I would consider capable of reference playback at low distortion. I do not think there is a standard for nearfield mixing.

 

And let's not forget: all of the sound professionals that create and mix these sounds have bosses. Some may be simply following orders, even though they would like to have as realistic a presentation as possible were they to have artistic license...

 

I just wonder who we can appeal to that FOH hinted at. Who is the person that decides to filter these tracks for BD release?

 

JSS

 

PS - StarWars BluRays PvAs coming. A few surprises in those.

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