maxmercy

The Low Frequency Content Thread (films, games, music, etc)

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I think that most of the time when the system errs on extension, it tends to give a higher rating that is deserved.  "The Equalizer" (TE) seems to be a rare case of a movie that got a worse extension rating than it probably deserves.

 

Bossobass reported excellent bass for TE when listening (presumably at theatrical reference) with his subs at +6 dB.  Without a doubt, he's hearing more ULF (potentially a lot more) than he would have if he ran his subs calibrated equal to his mains.  Does this mean that he overrates the bass in TE?  I don't think there's a straightforward answer there at all because we all listen differently!  Even in the studio, as we've found out, tracks are rarely monitored with enough low-end capability to hear everything that's present, and we have reason to suspect that much monitoring happens at lower-than-reference playback levels in order to compensate for the reduced playback levels used in common theaters.

 

Now, one could point out that if Bossobass plays "Pacific Rim" (PR) with subs at +6 dB, it's unlikely he will hear nearly as much ULF as he did in "The Equalizer".  PR has a steep filter compared to the modest roll-off seen in TE, so arguably TE should have a much better extension rating.  On the other hand, PR with BEQ gets rave reviews, so given that PR has good sounding ULF content underneath a steep filter, perhaps it should get a good extension rating too?  As a thought experiment, what happens if you cancel the 20 Hz filter and boost the sub by 30 dB on HTTYD2?  It might sound awesome!  Clearly (looking at the PvA) there's a nice 10 Hz hit buried in there, just waiting to be EQed and boosted out.  Or maybe it'll wreck the score and make it sound bad.

 

Rare case or not, the ULF is relative and not dependent on MVL. Pac Rim is filtered. Running it at +10dB will not reveal anything that isn't there in the first place.

 

EQ vs Pac Rim:

 

TAIM3Os.png

 

There are cases where the DVD vs BR and/or the 5.1 mix vs the 7.1 mix are vastly different in content and/or level and that has resulted in some wowing a soundtrack that I thought grossly anemic.

 

Prometheus and Thor are 2 examples. Thor BR is +10dB louder than Thor DVD and Prometheus 5.1 is +10dB louder than the 7.1 mix. Master & Commander is the first one that alerted me to a possible reason for huge differences in subjective opinions being that there is a huge difference in content between DVD and BR, etc.

 

Transformers is one disc that I always bumped the sub during playback because it's level is low and bumping the SW trim brought out the ULF and low end overall.

 

But, playback level doesn't add content.

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I enjoy the unique system here used to rate movies. Nobody expects it to be perfect. I have ported subs (no offence taken BTW Max) and despite the inability to reveal content below about 17Hz I like to contribute for others out there who may have similar setups. I think that I'm not too bad a judge on the bass quality and any comments made about content above 17Hz will be valid for everyone. I'm glad to be able to confirm or deny what I think is going on by using the great info posted here. I think having a variety has a positive influence on the overall execution ratings.

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Rare case or not, the ULF is relative and not dependent on MVL. Pac Rim is filtered. Running it at +10dB will not reveal anything that isn't there in the first place.

The relative audibility of ULF does depend on the MVL.  For a steeply filtered film like PR, a high sub playback level is not likely to make any ULF audible, but for films like TF and EQ, it can and does make a big difference.  My reason for bringing PR in the discussion wasn't to suggest that turning the sub up will bring in missing ULF but to point out that using a powerful tool (BEQ) it is possible to extract ULF that others here have found to be very satisfying.

 

You might argue that BEQ is a more invasive tool to use to tailor the sound than increasing the sub level, but I disagree.  Increasing the sub level throws the upper and mid bass out of balance, which in turn makes it sound slower and more bloated.  Due to masking effects, it can actually make some wide band bass sounds weaker.  The sub level bump also alters the response around the crossover, but this may not be for the worse if the crossover blend was not optimal to begin with.  BEQ, on the other hand, is surgical.  It can bring up the level of ULF without throwing the mid and upper bass balance out of whack.

 

Of course, BEQ requires additional equipment to apply versus running subs hot, so in that sense it is a less simple adjustment.  What I'm getting at though is that even PR has the content.  It's just not possible to recover it by merely running the sub level higher.  If we're willing to give more points to movies that sound better with the sub level spiked, then why not include movies that BEQ well too?

 

Or we can just drop it and be happy that we have a system that is nice and simple even if a bit unreliable at times.

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Can you add The Book of Life? Not sure about the bass, but I was getting some 60 Hz kick and don't know how far down it goes.

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John Wick (7.1 TrueHD)

 

Level        - 3 Stars (109.38dB composite)
Extension - 5 Stars (1Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (28.5dB)

Execution - 4 Stars (by poll)

 

Overall     - 4.25 Stars

Recommendation - Buy (by poll)

 

Notes:  Very solid bass.  Nothing demo worthy, but just generally good.  Movie was OK.  Loved the scenes in the hotel and nightclub.

 

PvA:

 

post-17-0-50020100-1423014003.png

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Dracula Untold (5.1 DTS-HD MA)

 

Level        - 3 Stars (109.19dB composite)
Extension - 1 Star (34.5Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (30.01dB)

Execution - 2 Stars (by poll)

 

Overall     - 2.75 Stars

Recommendation - Rent (by poll)

 

PvA:

 

post-17-0-11265800-1423014203.png

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Can you add The Book of Life? Not sure about the bass, but I was getting some 60 Hz kick and don't know how far down it goes.

I would be interested in seeing this one graphed. Felt like 25hz and up, didn't shake my couch or rattle my drop ceiling tiles like movies with ULF do.

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John Wick (7.1 TrueHD)

 

Level        - 3 Stars (109.38dB composite)

Extension - 5 Stars (1Hz)

Dynamics - 5 Stars (28.5dB)

Execution - TBD

 

Overall     - TBD

 

Recommendation - TBD

 

Notes:  Very solid bass.  Nothing demo worthy, but just generally good.  Movie was OK.  Loved the scenes in the hotel and nightclub.

 

PvA:

 

post-17-0-50020100-1423014003.png

Nice, makes a change to see peak and average lines not drop off a cliff!

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^^ Nube, looks like the Extension on Dracula Untold is at 34.5hz, not 24.5hz?  (-10dB on "average" trace) Either way.. it's a stinker.. :P  

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^^ Nube, looks like the Extension on Dracula Untold is at 34.5hz, not 24.5hz?  (-10dB on "average" trace) Either way.. it's a stinker.. :P  

 

Good catch!  Thanks.  I've updated it on both this and the polled thread.

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Is that one of the worst ever?

Yep.  If you click the link on the first page to the spreadsheet, goto View at the top, Choose list, then click on the Extension column a couple of times to sort it descending, looks like Dracula Untold is the 3rd worst measured extension ever.  Pitiful.

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I measured both Nightcrawler and Force Majeure after they were mentioned a few weeks/months ago elsewhere.  Nightcrawler was a good movie, even though Jake G. is a weirdo - don't like him in much of anything.  While neither is a bass movie - both exhibiting very low levels and minimal bass effects - they do have content extension to single digits.  I'd post them if anyone wanted, but I doubt anyone cares.

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Nube, I think you mentioned you have the import/blu ray of Alien Abduction? If so, is this the German version and is it region A compatible? TIA!

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Batleship is un-filtered on dubtracks. :o Nice, sadly dubs are god horrible :wacko:,but action scenes are worthy to check. :blink:

I don't understand that - surely the SFX and score mix would stay exactly the same, and then they'd just re-do the vocal levels alone??

 

Will have to check the dubbed mixes out, though.  How annoying.

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Wow, why would they filter the English version?

 

I wonder if he DVD is filtered?

Filtered like blu-ray. I believe this would be new true 5 star film if like german track would be measured,  its pretty brutal in places. ;)

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