maxmercy

The Low Frequency Content Thread (films, games, music, etc)

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I just have 2 scenes. We loved the flick and Denzel pulls it off yet again. Man On Fire reprise. It's a def buy for me:

 

b360afa733a7f9dbdb1687164a6ad1bd.png

That looks great!! Thanks!!

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Heck yeah, bosso posted some graphs.  That movie is legit.  http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/284-bossobass-raptor-system-3/page-23-bottom of the page. 

 

Ninja Turtles Specs are on the following page posted by me if anyone is curious.

 

Thanks for the Turtles graphs. I thought after watching most the bass was centered in the 30-40hz range with some select scenes digging a bit deeper to 20hz or so which looks to be close looking at those graphs at least. Curious to see the full film put through the paces here.

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Cool, I finally figured out how to post them here too without uploading them again and wasting storage space.

 

TMNT - Ch16 beginning and 1hour 28minutes in.


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I just have 2 scenes. We loved the flick and Denzel pulls it off yet again. Man On Fire reprise. It's a def buy for me:

 

b360afa733a7f9dbdb1687164a6ad1bd.png

What are the time stamps on these 2 scenes Bosso?

 

Edit: This is def a great movie to watch!

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What are the time stamps on these 2 scenes?

Top one is the beginning of chapter 13.

Bottom one is the microwave scene in chapter 15.

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Guys not sure if this is the best place to ask but suggestions on where to post would be appreciated. I've just moved house and too cut a long story short the new room isn't anywhere near as good as the one in the old house for HT. I'm talking bass here. Main difference is much more glass on the walls, floorboards and my EQ curve is very boosted in the 60-90Hz range (+10dB peak). No matter what I do I can't flatten out the response. In real terms this is resulting in some boomy bass (I think) from certain scenes I know really well and knowing what it sounded like before I can't bear it. I use a Behringer MIC2200 for PEQ but would a mini DSP be a better option? Also sub placement is different and more limited as to what I can do in the new room. I guess I will have to experiment with what I have to see if that can correct some of the issues. Any feedback appreciated.

 

 

Edit: Posted over on AVS too.

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About the TMNT track, I must say it did have a strong positive point.  The Atmos version of the track sounded like Atmos lite on my 5.1 system.  I heard some very nice pans as well as phantom images from above.  Thus far, I've been a strong skeptic of Atmos, in part because Dolby seems dodgy about releasing enough technical data to evaluate it.  I reckoned that they were either going to move back to a lossy coding (and combat awareness of this change via heavy duty marketing), or they were going to go with a mix-down instead of all the objects.  It's looking like the former.  That said, they may embed some kind of metadata that lets them extract objects from the mix losslessly.  Or maybe their multichannel upmixer just sounds good enough that they can lie and no one will notice.

 

In any case, I look forward to hearing more material in this format and hope that more directors exercise discretion in their mixes so that there's enough headroom to mix it all down to 7.1 without having to crush all the dynamics out.  I noticed no clipping in TMNT, but it sounded compressed to hell.  So I guess it's down to the content now.

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Thanks to Dave (bosso) for graphing scenes of some movies recently, but are any of the following movies in the cue?

 

TMNT

Dawn of the Planet of the Apes

The Equalizer

 

Thanks!

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Film Mixer confirmed an un-filtered track, that they USED the bottom octave quite judiciously 

 

Marc doesn't pro-actively use filters. That doesn't mean it will have a flat ULF response.

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I trust that Marc and his re-recording mixer cohort did not filter it, but Fury is rolled off significantly somewhere in the production chain, be it foley or effects editing, starting around 34Hz. 

 

However, it sounds better than the last mix Marc was high on (Riddick).  You could tell most of the bass was in the upper regions we care about (30-50Hz booms), but there were occasional moments dipping to around 18Hz. 

 

There is a lot of bass, and it's used pretty well, but it definitely does NOT convey the real feeling of those guns, mortars, bombs, and cannons.  I've heard+felt really big weapons being demoed at an Army base, and it's a huge difference in the ULF areas.  I wish  whoever is responsible for the rolled off content would have kept the bottom three octaves in the mix.  It's missing some of the realism without them.  Good mix, otherwise.  Curious that they chose 5.1 16bit lossless on the retail BR.

 

Maybe this one will be a case for Bass EQ.  They'll just have to be careful, as there's 1 single, short blip with very significant 1-2Hz content.

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Film Mixer confirmed an un-filtered track, that they USED the bottom octave quite judiciously 

 

The "Bottom Octave" for most film production and playback venues (mainly equipped w/ high efficiency 18s in vented enclosures) is 25-50Hz.

 

JSS

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I trust that Marc and his re-recording mixer cohort did not filter it, but Fury is rolled off significantly somewhere in the production chain, be it foley or effects editing, starting around 34Hz.

 

However, it sounds better than the last mix Marc was high on (Riddick). You could tell most of the bass was in the upper regions we care about (30-50Hz booms), but there were occasional moments dipping to around 18Hz.

 

There is a lot of bass, and it's used pretty well, but it definitely does NOT convey the real feeling of those guns, mortars, bombs, and cannons. I've heard+felt really big weapons being demoed at an Army base, and it's a huge difference in the ULF areas. I wish whoever is responsible for the rolled off content would have kept the bottom three octaves in the mix. It's missing some of the realism without them. Good mix, otherwise. Curious that they chose 5.1 16bit lossless on the retail BR.

 

Maybe this one will be a case for Bass EQ. They'll just have to be careful, as there's 1 single, short blip with very significant 1-2Hz content.

Interesting after all of the comments about it being unfiltered.

 

Did you it graphed yet?

 

I wonder if film mixer will chime in regarding the filtering?

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Yes, it's graphed. I'll post it on release day, but it's very similar in response to Riddick, with more level from 60-120Hz, and slightly shallower rolloff below 16Hz, plus the spike at 1.5Hz.  As Scott said, it has plenty of midbass punch, which contributes a lot.

 

It still sounds very good and dynamic.  It's just missing that really deep weight that we logically expect big, heavy things and loud explosions to have.  The action depicted on screen has that weight in real life.

 

If this had the gunshots of Open Range, the mechanical bass effects of B:LA, and the environmental bass effects from WOTW, combined with the mixing artistry of Marc & company, we'd have a true legendary mix.  Of course, I guess you could say the same about nearly all movies.

 

Long story short, it's not a disappointment to anyone but the bottom dwellers around here.  B)  Ported systems will get a real workout, whereas sealed systems will be loafing along, but I think most will still like the movie and the mix.

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Yes, it's graphed. I'll post it on release day, but it's very similar in response to Riddick, with more level from 60-120Hz, and slightly shallower rolloff below 16Hz, plus the spike at 1.5Hz. As Scott said, it has plenty of midbass punch, which contributes a lot.

 

It still sounds very good and dynamic. It's just missing that really deep weight that we logically expect big, heavy things and loud explosions to have. The action depicted on screen has that weight in real life.

 

If this had the gunshots of Open Range, the mechanical bass effects of B:LA, and the environmental bass effects from WOTW, combined with the mixing artistry of Marc & company, we'd have a true legendary mix. Of course, I guess you could say the same about nearly all movies.

 

Long story short, it's not a disappointment to anyone but the bottom dwellers around here. B) Ported systems will get a real workout, whereas sealed systems will be loafing along, but I think most will still like the movie and the mix.

Thanks, that is disappointing!

 

I really hope filmmixer pops in and let's us know what happened.

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The "Bottom Octave" for most film production and playback venues (mainly equipped w/ high efficiency 18s in vented enclosures) is 25-50Hz.

 

JSS

 

 

Well aware of that. I was going off of what FM popped in and said to the guys on avs. As he said himself:

 

 

 

There is no filter on the 5.1 master for HT. 

 

I didn't "mess" it up. smile.gif

 

 

I took that as no HPF, in context that was exactly what it would seem Marc was referring to. 

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I distinctly remember the same thing being said of Avengers. As nube pointed out above, I do not think this was the re-recording team's doing, as FilmMixer has stated that he does not highpass tracks, and I for one am thankful that he and other mixers don't highpass. It probably happened somewhere else in the chain. Given most re-recording teams' lack of monitoring capability below 20Hz, I am not sure they would be aware of ULF content unless they would look at waveforms or FFT, as any intelligent amplification scheme would highpass vented subwoofer monitoring systems.

The sound design and editing teams may be aware of the bandwidth limitations of the playback systems, and may have highpassed the effects themselves to conserve available digital headroom...but who knows. I just hope it isn't clipped/compressed. I will definitely look at the track for BEQ.

JSS

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You got it, John.

 

People need to hang up the "this was highpassed for the lowest common denominator, people with HTiB's." Nope. Nobody in the production is even thinking about them. Those systems always have hardcore limiters anyway. No, they are monitoring on a typical cinema system. The bottom end is ~30hz hence why we see so many movies with the most energy around there. It's also a very impressive sounding frequency range.

 

Effects don't all have natural ULF in them. That's why they are called 'effects'. They are not real. While they might derive from real sounds they are also heavily modified and synthesized. The person creating the SFX might knock out the ULF because of extraneous noise, rumble and such.

 

Obviously this isn't always the case as we do get some real low hitters every once in a while.

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Yes, it's graphed. I'll post it on release day, but it's very similar in response to Riddick, with more level from 60-120Hz, and slightly shallower rolloff below 16Hz, plus the spike at 1.5Hz.  As Scott said, it has plenty of midbass punch, which contributes a lot.

 

It still sounds very good and dynamic.  It's just missing that really deep weight that we logically expect big, heavy things and loud explosions to have.  The action depicted on screen has that weight in real life.

 

If this had the gunshots of Open Range, the mechanical bass effects of B:LA, and the environmental bass effects from WOTW, combined with the mixing artistry of Marc & company, we'd have a true legendary mix.  Of course, I guess you could say the same about nearly all movies.

 

Long story short, it's not a disappointment to anyone but the bottom dwellers around here.  B)  Ported systems will get a real workout, whereas sealed systems will be loafing along, but I think most will still like the movie and the mix.

 

I would say this looks very good, certainly not disappointing.

ULF extension is one parameter, but the overall sound quality is what matters the most, and if dynamics are lost no ulf shake can bring back the sense of life and realism. 

 

If they used sound effects made up from real recording clips, it is a very good chance that the ulf can be recovered. 

We have already shown that this is the case for many films now.

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...

Effects don't all have natural ULF in them.

..

 

Oh, they do.

But not necessarily always very loud and ground-shaking.

 

When ulf is preserved there is a much more involving sense of huge scale and atmosphere.

And the you have the occasional moment with louder impacts.

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Has anyone graphed Lucy yet?

 

Just watched it this evening and am thinking it is not filtered. Certain things in my room seem to shake at very low frequencies and it happened quite a bit in this movie.

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