The Low Frequency Content Thread (films, games, music, etc)

[MrSmithers29]

My suggestions would've been (some already mentioned):

Underworld: Awakening

Cloverfield

Titan AE (dvd)

Percy Jackson & the Olympians: The Lightning Thief

Pulse

The Haunting (dvd, DTS-ES version)

Serenity

LotR EE

Inception

Horton Hears a Who

Live Free or Die Hard

Master and Commander (maybe just the opening fight scene, probably a good blu-ray vs DVD comparison)

 

I made a Google Docs spreadsheet, I thought it might be interesting just to be able to see a full list and bar graph of the movies that have been done. I imagine something like this will be possible (in a better form) at some point, but I wanted to see it anyway so I'll share Spreadsheet. Note that editing is allowed so that people can sort or whatever, so be careful with that. The first tab is a list with a link to the post where Max gives the details. The second and third tabs are bar graphs of the Levels and Dynamics, they'll be sorted in whatever order you have the bar graph. The fourth tab is just some stuff I was screwing around with, making the ratings more granular and scaling them vs the top and bottom in a given category..it currently means nothing. Max, you didn't actually post the numerical value for Sin City for dynamics and extension, do you have those?

 

Finally, Max, I'd like to investigate doing full peak-average charts, some of these movies I have and you wouldn't have to Netflix or whatever, but I don't have the requisite confidence in my current graphs/settings. Do you think that you could take a known scene, preferably one with decent dynamics and extension and graph it? Something just a minute or a couple minutes long would be great. Something like Bosso has done with his reference WotW Lightning scene is what I'm thinking of.

 

It's been said several times, awesome work guys.

[maxmercy]

Very nice! I make a spreadsheet for every film, and have several other spreadsheets for all the dBHz data, a sheet just for graph comparisons, and one just for star ratings.

 

My process is this:

 

I graph the film using SpecLab (with Nutall windowing, thanks bosso!), using my BluRay player, connected to my AVR with HDMI, and I set the crossover points of all LCR/S speakers as high as I can (250Hz in my case). I also set the LFE low pass at 250Hz. I then have found settings so that a known reference track (soho54's Audio Test DVD's LFE tones) can be played back and analyzed for proper level and for any roll off in the signal chain, and to set accurate levels in SpecLab. If roll off is found, it is addressed by running a very slow sweep with Room EQ Wizard throughout the 0-160Hz range. This is then captured and analyed with DataThief, a shareware program. In order to capture data well, I have made my Speclab background white, peak and average traces black, and grid very light grey so DataThief can accurately graph the trace and export it to a text file with 0.5Hz resolution. Then I find the roll off point, and generate polynomial correction functions so that any further graphed material will be corrected properly after export to Excel.

 

Once the correction functions are defined, you simply run the film while running SpecLab, then capture the screen, use DataThief to get the data into a text file, and import the text into Excel, make the proper roll off correction using simple cut and paste in the Excel file, and graph and analyze and save the data.

 

That's the recipe.

 

I can do the analysis for a single film in 15-20mins, and for multiple films in less time per film, hence me posting several at once. I have Speed Racer and SuckerPunch screen capped (both are tremendous visual films, but are very poor in level), but I am waiting for a few more so I can use time more efficiently.

 

JSS

 

PS - The reason some Avg tracings have an upward turning tail without the same in the peak trace is due to over-correction. Many of the lower level films will have such low <10Hz content that for my SpecLab settings (+5dB to -70dB), the graph is running flat for the bottom 2-5Hz, hence the upward tail due to correction applied to the 'flat spot' in the screencaps, vs a sharply downward sloped line.

 

-10dB on my screencapped speclab graph correlates to 0dBFS, or 115dB. The reason I leave 15dB of headroom is that, for any reason, a 0dBFS signal would be sent in phase to every channel in a 7.1 system, I could track it. It would be over 125dB. No film has come close to even breaking the 115dB barrier at any one frequency, except for Attack of the Clones on DVD. When Dialnorm is accounted for, there is a 116dB peak in the low 40's, Hz-wise, when the Naboo ship flys by in the opening scene. The BluRay is lower in level by almost 6dB, IIRC.

 

[maxmercy]

Oh jeez, guys. At some point over the last month, my SpecLab settings went from Nuttall back to Hann. This may help to explain why some of the latest crop of films graphed may be underwhelming. I will run a few of them with Nuttall windowing (it has a quicker rise time, so picks up brief effects better), to see if this is at fault, and to find out when the mistake happened. I hope not too many of the graphs will be changed....

 

Damn.

 

But, this does open up a VERY good debate. With the current scheme, I can track resolution in frequency well (bin width of 1Hz). But Amplitude resolution suffers to a certain extent, because as the bin width decreases in size, the length that the program looks at the signal increases, 'masking' very quick effects that can be powerful, like the gunshot in ALVH, or the Gatling cannon shots into the bricks in The Dark Knight. By changing my bin width to 5Hz, quicker events can more easily be graphed, with a better picture of overall amplitude. Or, I could run both for each film, but that means running less films....

 

What do you guys think? I'll post up a comparison of a Dolby Trailer with each later today so you can see the difference.

 

JSS

[Infrasonic]

I think you should post up a nice tutorial on how to do these P-A graphs so we can help you out, brah.

[Bossobass Dave]

Tron: Legacy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bossobass Dave]

Thor

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bossobass Dave]

Tron: Legacy and Thor are up, both mic'd from the BR.

 

Cabin In The Woods has been updated with new Title Block & PH/A graph.

[maxmercy]

Bosso,

 

Thanks! I'll get them indexed soon. Did Thor clip your input? Also, ALVH may have gotten somewhat short-changed by the Hann window. I'll re-run when I get time with Nuttall. But I am still concerned that it looked like the levels you were getting were on par with Thor, but I got just 'meh' levels...

 

Infrasonic,

 

I'll get a tutorials up this weekend so ppl can help with screencaps and Peak/Avg. Later tonight I will put up a comparo of wide v narrow bin peak/avg for different THX and Dolby trailers for input. If enough ppl can contribute, we may be able to do both narrow and wide bin analysis so that short-lived effects do not get relatively shortchanged as they currently do by the peak/avg graph....

 

Ideally, we would use a wide-bin FFT for Level and Dynamics, and a narrow-band FFT for Extension and for better resolution.

 

JSS

[Bossobass Dave]

Yes, Thor on BR clips my interface in two or three spots in that ice planet battle sequence. The subs are level matched and flat. That scene where Odin appears and his horse rears up is ridiculously hot. It's like that scene in CITW but a wider spread of freqs. There's 4 spots in that single effect that are above 0dBFS on the graph. Granted, my settings aren't technically perfectly calibrated, but they're pretty close.

 

With the DVD, it's no problem. When I got the BR and popped it in it blew my mind.

 

On the subject of DialNorm, why would you compensate for the mix? If they use DN, so be it. I don't bump or lower my MV for DN, I just set the system flat and MV at 0dBRL and play the disc. That's reference to me. If it needs bumped (like the Transformer DVDs do) or lowered (like Thor on BR) I do that when I watch the movie as entertainment. But, when graphing, I set it as noted for all discs and that's the reference point. Otherwise, if I messed with calibration for each film, I'd have no reference and all discs would graph at the same level.

[maxmercy]

OK,

 

Here are some comparisons of three separate FFT settings. The settings are:

 

1. 1Hz resolution, but 1 second integration time

2. 2Hz resolution, but 1/2 second integration time

3. 4Hz resolution, but 1/4 second integration time

 

All three have pluses and minuses. For example, in the 1Hz FFT, we can see the individual frequency makeup of an effect with great resolution in frequency, but short-lived effects, like gunshots, get 'averaged out' because the FFT looks at a second of data at a time, adding 63 miliseconds to each and looking at a one second interval again. So if an effect lasts more than a half second, it shows up as very strong. If an effect is very short, even if narrowband, the FFT will show it as lower in dB, because it got 'averaged' with the rest of the stuff going on that second. The lower resolution FFTs take less time to integrate, but lose resolution. So gunshots are shown at a more accurate level, but resolution is lost. Welcome to the FFT as an analysis tool.

 

As your integration time drops, your resolution drops, but you can now can accurately graph the level of broadband, fast effects with more precision.

 

I chose 3 samples.

 

1. Danley's Fireworks recording - This is 100% wideband, fast effects. You can see that the shape of the curve does not change much, even though the level definitely rises.

 

2. Disney's BluRay trailer - This is a mix of mainly fast, wideband effects, with a little narrowband effects too. Some explosions were given a broadband subsonic 'wallop' below 11Hz, and above 140Hz, which 'lingered' just a little longer with each explosion, so they show up VERY well on the 1Hz FFT, but not as well on the 4Hz FFT.

 

3. Dolby's Spheres Trailer - This trailer has a few booms, but two long duration effects with the strongest signal at 22Hz. , as well as a fast, LF downward sweep from ~50 to ~20Hz, varying in intensity as it goes. You can clearly see the single 22Hz contribution in the 1Hz sweep, but the fast sweep only spends a few miliseconds at each Hz, so the 1Hz, 1 second FFT doesn't have time to register it as very loud. Note that the sweep is recorded at a higher level than the sustained 22Hz tone, but the 1Hz FFT simply cannot do it justice. The shorter FFTs show poorer resolution, but definitely show the level of the sweep as larger, as the 'rise time' for each bin is shorter, and the sweep spends more time in each bin, beacuse each FFT bin is wider in the 2Hz and 4Hz FFTs.

 

This may explain why films like the Incredible Hulk, Thor, WotW and ROTF have gotten such great scores with the current FFT scheme (1Hz, 1sec). If the effects are longer lasting, they will have more level with such an FFT.

 

Star Trek, with it's tremendous warp scenes, got shortchanged. The warps are broadband effects, and would not show up very strongly in a peak graph unless a wider bin size was used.

 

I propose we look at both 1Hz and 4Hz bin widths, or compromise with a 2Hz bin-width for PvA graphs.

 

What do you guys think? I hope I explained this correctly....

 

JSS

[maxmercy]

Yes, Thor on BR clips my interface in two or three spots in that ice planet battle sequence. The subs are level matched and flat. That scene where Odin appears and his horse rears up is ridiculously hot. It's like that scene in CITW but a wider spread of freqs. There's 4 spots in that single effect that are above 0dBFS on the graph. Granted, my settings aren't technically perfectly calibrated, but they're pretty close.

 

With the DVD, it's no problem. When I got the BR and popped it in it blew my mind.

 

On the subject of DialNorm, why would you compensate for the mix? If they use DN, so be it. I don't bump or lower my MV for DN, I just set the system flat and MV at 0dBRL and play the disc. That's reference to me. If it needs bumped (like the Transformer DVDs do) or lowered (like Thor on BR) I do that when I watch the movie as entertainment. But, when graphing, I set it as noted for all discs and that's the reference point. Otherwise, if I messed with calibration for each film, I'd have no reference and all discs would graph at the same level.

 

I account for Dialnorm because it is something 'added' in for the home environment, and something that THX receivers will adjust for as well. If I left Dialnorm attenuation in, BlackHawk Down would have been 7dB low on the DD recording! I used PCM, which is curiously 7dB higher than the DD track......

 

Transformers 1 BluRay has -4dB Dialnorm, ROTF BluRays, one has -4dB Dialnorm, one doesn't. When you adjust the one that does up 4dB, the graphs are almost identical.

 

I was posting the above, so I didn't see your comments earlier. What do you think of the FFT bin size? I think all scene caps should be hires, but the PvA should probably be changed to better show true levels, since Level, Extension, and Dynamics are taken directly from that graph. Do you think 2 separate bin sizes (wide bin for Level/Dynamics, narrow bin for Extension), or just a compromise in between bin?

 

Also, I still cannot explain the differences you and I see in ALVH. It's actually pretty weird.

 

JSS

[Ricci]

JSS,

 

Post #245 does present a quandary doesn't it? I never could decide on a bin size when I used spec lab for just this reason. At the end of the day I think it may be better to have slightly less frequency resolution in order to maintain better tracking of abrupt transients in the material.

 

A few films that may or may not have been mentioned...

Flight of the phoenix

The grey (primarily for the plane crash scene)

Serenity ( this may very well be a 5er)

Hurt locker (50 cal desert scene is nasty)

The Haunting dts DVD

Pulse

Hell boy 2

 

If you wouldn't mind it would be great to do Jurassic Lunch and Bass I Love You and the thx amazing life trailer since basically every GTG runs those.

 

About this differing soundtrack mix thing...it would be interesting to pick a decent bass movie with a lot of different versions available and check them all noting differing dial norm and all. Foreign language, rental, DVD, BR, special edition, extended, directors, etc...M&C might be a good candidate to attempt this down the road. It would be a great experiment. I bet between us we could cobble together 5 or 6 versions easy. I have 2.

[FilmMixer]

Just for clarification..

 

When you guys post info on the sound designer, and or mixers, you are usually not correctly crediting the right people.. on most of these larger films, there is almost always a couple of people handling different things..

 

I understand trying to link different films with their crews.. but unless you know the specifics of each film and who handled what, the information is suspect at best in some of the credits you guys list on here and trying to determine individuals marks on any given film..

 

WOTH was mixed by Andy Nelson and Anna Behlmer.. Scott Stoltz is a production sound mixer (who records on set.)

 

ALVH was mixed by Ron Barlett and Doug Hemphill.... Doug mixed FX... Harry Cohen and Dror Mohar were the principal sound designers (I mixed the first temp on the film with them)

 

As a side note, a great resource for those interested in sound for film is Soundworks Collection.. some really cool pieces, going back a couple of years..

 

http://soundworkscollection.com

[maxmercy]

JSS,

 

Post #245 does present a quandary doesn't it? I never could decide on a bin size when I used spec lab for just this reason. At the end of the day I think it may be better to have slightly less frequency resolution in order to maintain better tracking of abrupt transients in the material.

 

A few films that may or may not have been mentioned...

Flight of the phoenix

The grey (primarily for the plane crash scene)

Serenity ( this may very well be a 5er)

Hurt locker (50 cal desert scene is nasty)

The Haunting dts DVD

Pulse

Hell boy 2

 

If you wouldn't mind it would be great to do Jurassic Lunch and Bass I Love You and the thx amazing life trailer since basically every GTG runs those.

 

About this differing soundtrack mix thing...it would be interesting to pick a decent bass movie with a lot of different versions available and check them all noting differing dial norm and all. Foreign language, rental, DVD, BR, special edition, extended, directors, etc...M&C might be a good candidate to attempt this down the road. It would be a great experiment. I bet between us we could cobble together 5 or 6 versions easy. I have 2.

 

Ricci,

 

With a 2Hz bin width, we halve the FFT time to 1/2 sec, and halve the resolution. The rise time is also halved, and the waterfall/spectrum graph is updated every ~30msec with a 93% overlap.

 

With a 4Hz bin width, we have a 1/4 sec FFT, but only 40 entire bins for the entire LF bandwidth! Even though the graph is updating every ~16msec, it looks like a 1/3 octave spectrum analyzer.....

 

I may start a poll on this before I graph any more films. I remember debating this a while back, but seeing a few films really get shortchanged recently that rely on mainly transient effects may move me to using a 2Hz bin width. I think 4Hz may be too much, unless combined with the 1Hz info, but then we are looking at two separate graphing sessions, as a film runs in real-time.

 

If we are able to get input from several different 'measures', we may be able to do multiple passes on a single film to see what is truly there without being selective in the time or frequency domain.....I'll work on those tutorials this weekend.

 

I'm sure we can all agree that scene graphs should remain hi-res though, correct? I think so. The value of scene graphs is knowing the freq range of an effect, with level being secondary.

 

Thanks for the film suggestions, I will add them to the queue.....

 

I do agree on doing a comparison on different versions of a film, with the stuff we have found so far. I have the M&C BluRay disc.

 

JSS

[maxmercy]

FM,

 

The soundworks site is very good, nicely done videos. What or where is the best way to find out who the main sound designer and mixer are for a particular film? If the end-title credits can be sometimes wrong, how can we find out who to properly credit?

 

I'm sure you understand we are doing this in our spare time, and errors can be a part of this thread, as much as we try to minimize them.

 

I appreciate you stopping by, because while we can speculate as to why a film graphs a certain way, you may have the direct means to explain why it is so.

 

 

JSS

[Bossobass Dave]

Just for clarification..

 

When you guys post info on the sound designer, and or mixers, you are usually not correctly crediting the right people.. on most of these larger films, there is almost always a couple of people handling different things..

 

I understand trying to link different films with their crews.. but unless you know the specifics of each film and who handled what, the information is suspect at best in some of the credits you guys list on here and trying to determine individuals marks on any given film..

 

WOTH was mixed by Andy Nelson and Anna Behlmer.. Scott Stoltz is a production sound mixer (who records on set.)

 

ALVH was mixed by Ron Barlett and Doug Hemphill.... Doug mixed FX... Harry Cohen and Dror Mohar were the principal sound designers (I mixed the first temp on the film with them)

 

As a side note, a great resource for those interested in sound for film is Soundworks Collection.. some really cool pieces, going back a couple of years..

 

http://soundworkscollection.com

 

This is true for some of the titles so far (I assume you mean WOTW). I mistakenly listed the 'sound mixer' instead of the 're-recording mixer' early on and will update those title blocks as I get the time (it's a LOT of work posting these and updating them is almost as much work). On top of it all, photobucket has completely changed its site and I have the beta version which has been glitchy as hell. Archiving is one of several long term details I'm looking at.

 

Just as Max has been thrashing a path through uncharted territory, it requires some do-overs along the way.

 

I'm aware that there are dozens of people involved in the sound of a film, but when there are more than 1 designer or mixer, I look at the films they've worked on in those respective capacities and prioritize. Yes, it will leave some folks out in the cold, but my aim is to concentrate on the top names with the aim of possibly detecting a sonic signature rather than just a track record.

 

It would be great if someone could do a sound department notes paragraph that I could add to the data for each movie by dropping the text into a template. I'll just say that it won't be me because I have my hands full with the data required for the format as it is.

[Bossobass Dave]

WOTT and ALVH are updated.

[nube]

Inspiring project, guys. I enjoy the mostly objective scoring of each movie, especially the methodology.

 

The only real thing I have to add is that I think this should become a feature of the DataBass site, and be integrated into the site for posterity's sake. I figure it could be formatted much like Josh's measurements and systems pages. It's more work to update a thread than it is to upload and manage a single page for each movie's measurements and ratings. Plus, with the data you're getting on the levels, JSS, a quick comparison could be made just like the measurements of drivers/systems. I can imagine this would drive a LOT of traffic to the site, though perhaps that's not a good thing (see also: AVS MWB "debates").

 

As to the bin size and FFT time, perhaps the best of all worlds is to score & graph based on the existing settings (1,1) and then give the opportunity to add points to the subjective rating with different SL settings (say: 4,0.25) to prop up those soundtracks that get shortchanged on the existing ones.

 

That feels sorta icky to me, though, for a variety of reasons. The first is that I don't think the best bass movies have a lot of transients. Restated, I think we don't feel/hear transients as palpably as we do the sustained effects and, subjectively, the effects most associated with the top guns are sustained. The second is that adding to the subjective rating based on objective data feels unscientific, though I guess I see a bit of that going on in the subjective ratings category already. Third, if you were to add to the subjective rating with (4,0.25) results, would you also be able to subtract from others that look less good with these settings?

 

There's more, but I am not sure there's an acceptable compromise here. I feel like a couple of trial runs on movies you feel have been shortchanged, along with your scoring rubric for the (4,0.25) settings, might be necessary to end the debate. However, that's a lot of extra time and effort.

 

Lastly, a comment about the scores so far. TIH is propped up throughout this as being the closest thing to MWB perfection after WOTW. However, when looking at the actual scoring, it appears that 9 is essentially as good, objectively. It missed the levels and dynamics thresholds for 5star by a mere .1 in each category. Just a minor point of contention, but objectively speaking, is TIH better than 9?

 

Edit: I guess, due to the objective ratings thresholds, 9 actually missed those two categories' 5star ratings by .2 each. Not sure that matters to the point I was making, but there it is.

[HuskerOmaha]

I got all excited reading through this after nube sent me over here. I was ready to get my Speclab on until I went to Bosso's site to download.

 

I have Windows 7 64 BIT.

 

EDIT: Nevermind, appears it may still work after I googled for a solution and got reassured by others.

 

Dave-update your site to say it works on 64 bit. I bet there are thousands like me that stopped right there.

 

EDIT 2: Still reading. Probably my favorite thread on any forum. Ever.

[maxmercy]

Guys,

 

I have a little one sick at home tonight, so I will try to get some stuff done this weekend. I think doing PvA at 2Hz and 1/2sec FFT is the best compromise between giving the transients their just due and keeping the strength of the long effects.

 

Any objections? I'll run through the first few movies I did (the ones that set up the scoring system) to see how the scoring goes.

 

Also will work on a tutorial that includes how to compensate for roll off for scene caps. For those interested, you will need soho54's audio test DVD available on AVS, as well as SpecLab and Room EQ Wizard from HTShack.

 

After that tutorial is done, and we settle on FFT settings, a tutorial on how to do PvA graphs will be done.

 

I got Prometheus today from the 'Flix.......

 

JSS

[mojave]

For the past several years I have analyzed the bass content in movies using JRiver Media Center and various VST plugins. This several advantages:

• You know the exact dBFS level of the audio at any given spot
  
• You can easily see the bass in any channel or the combined bass using bass management
  
• You can see if bass management results in greater than 0 dBFS since you can monitor this digitally before the final output
  
• There is no rolloff that needs to be accounted for
  
• You get the exact same results on any system
  

There are also some disadvantages:

• The VST plugins with a high FFT block size don't include a spectrum analyzer. However you can very accurately show maximum and average output. I have verified with soho54's test DVD.
  
• The VST plugins with a spectrum analyzer only go to 10 Hz. I have inquired with the developer of one program and since the plugin is also used for live audio, they didn't wan to go with larger FFT's or lower frequencies
  
• The VST spectrum analyzers only show 10 seconds at a time.
  

Since Speclab allows it to receive audio data from other programs (Options > Audio Settings > AD/DA server) I have inquired if JRiver would be interested in writing an output plugin to work with Speclab. Matt at JRiver has shown interest and I am trying to get some more info from Wolf at the Speclab Yahoo Group.

 

If this works out, one could playback a movie in JRiver and output directly to Speclab without any cables/soundcard/receiver being in the signal chain. This would make scene caps easier and more consistent. With the addition of the dtsdecoderdll.dll file from an Arcsoft trial version, JRiver can decode all audio formats. You can also quickly switch audio streams for comparison purposes.

 

Is there any interest in this method or suggestions?

[Bossobass Dave]

I got all excited reading through this after nube sent me over here. I was ready to get my Speclab on until I went to Bosso's site to download.

 

I have Windows 7 64 BIT.

 

EDIT: Nevermind, appears it may still work after I googled for a solution and got reassured by others.

 

Dave-update your site to say it works on 64 bit. I bet there are thousands like me that stopped right there.

 

EDIT 2: Still reading. Probably my favorite thread on any forum. Ever.

 

The results others have had who have W7 64 bit have been iffy at best. Since I don't use W except to measure, I'm not familiar enough with their glitchy OS (don't know how you W guys stand it) to field the e-mails, so I just say it may not work, which is true thus far.

 

If you can give me a link to a workaround, specific to W7/64Bit/SpecLab, I'll gladly add that to the site.

 

There are some things you may have to tweak to get the graphs just right, so if you do set it up, ping me with a sample graph and I can tell you what to tweak, if necessary.

 

Yes, I would love the help!!!

 

I have a template, so I will need:

 

Screen caps. (Generally, 3 caps/film, 4 or 5 if the film is loaded with scenes, 5 maximum.

A pic of the beginning of the scene and end of the scene.

Time stamp of the beginning & end of the scene.

Film cover art pic.

Sound designer info.

Re-recording mixer info.

Max's PvA graph.

Max's ratings.

 

For title block info, I use:

 

IMDb. Just google the film title with IMDB after it and the link should be at the top of page 1. The site will have the film photo, just drag it onto your desktop. Then, under it will be a link to "see full cast & crew" which will take you to a list of everyone involved. Scroll down to "Sound Department". Find the sound designer, click on his/her name and list other films they've done the SD for. Go back to sound department and look for re-recording mixer, click on the name and find films they've mixed as well.

 

E-mail Max's stuff, the SCs, pics and title block info to me and I'll drop them into the template and post them. PNG, PDF or JPEG is fine for the SCs and pics.

 

If I have the film or if I rent the film, I have it nailed, but there are a lot of titles I don't own and don't want to rent or just don't have the time to get to, so help would be awesome for those titles (which will eventually be any I haven't done that Max has already PvA graphed and rated).

[maxmercy]

For the past several years I have analyzed the bass content in movies using JRiver Media Center and various VST plugins. This several advantages:

• You know the exact dBFS level of the audio at any given spot
  
• You can easily see the bass in any channel or the combined bass using bass management
  
• You can see if bass management results in greater than 0 dBFS since you can monitor this digitally before the final output
  
• There is no rolloff that needs to be accounted for
  
• You get the exact same results on any system
  

There are also some disadvantages:

• The VST plugins with a high FFT block size don't include a spectrum analyzer. However you can very accurately show maximum and average output. I have verified with soho54's test DVD.
  
• The VST plugins with a spectrum analyzer only go to 10 Hz. I have inquired with the developer of one program and since the plugin is also used for live audio, they didn't wan to go with larger FFT's or lower frequencies
  
• The VST spectrum analyzers only show 10 seconds at a time.
  

Since Speclab allows it to receive audio data from other programs (Options > Audio Settings > AD/DA server) I have inquired if JRiver would be interested in writing an output plugin to work with Speclab. Matt at JRiver has shown interest and I am trying to get some more info from Wolf at the Speclab Yahoo Group.

 

If this works out, one could playback a movie in JRiver and output directly to Speclab without any cables/soundcard/receiver being in the signal chain. This would make scene caps easier and more consistent. With the addition of the dtsdecoderdll.dll file from an Arcsoft trial version, JRiver can decode all audio formats. You can also quickly switch audio streams for comparison purposes.

 

Is there any interest in this method or suggestions?

 

Yes. But, how does JRMC get the data in the first place? I do not have a BD drive on my POS laptop that runs XP. It would be great if SpecLab could get as direct a feed as possible. But an A/D conversion has to happen due to the possibility of 0dBFS+ with bass management, one that has analog headroom to account for 0dBFS + 10dB (theoretical max).

 

What I am trying to say is: do you rip the discs then run them in JRMC?

 

Bosso, I will update the index as I get time. Will do that and work on tutorials this weekend.

 

Got HTTYD today from the 'Flix. Will check it out.

 

Ricci, once solid FFT bin widths are determined, any chance we would be able to integrate this data permanently into data-bass.com like the driver ratings, with quick comparos a click away?

 

Thanks for the enthusiasm to contribute to this thread. We just have to all be able to generate the same graphs so all will be apples-apples. I'm glad we only got less than 30 films in before we decided to question the bin width......

 

Tonight I'll actually be watching films, so no new data, although I have Speed Racer and SuckerPunch graphed. Both are very low in level with the 1Hz bin width. Not sure if this is due to 'home mixes' or not, but they are both very tame.

 

JSS

 

[Bossobass Dave]

Hey guys,

 

Had to share this with y'all; MIB 3. Sheeeesh. Don't bring your subwoofers to this one. I had to check if mine were on.

 

Reference level at the LP, subs (+/-) 3dB 4-100 Hz:

 

 

 

Introducing; the Bass Thumbs Down Award:

 

 

 

[mojave]

Yes. But, how does JRMC get the data in the first place? I do not have a BD drive on my POS laptop that runs XP. It would be great if SpecLab could get as direct a feed as possible. But an A/D conversion has to happen due to the possibility of 0dBFS+ with bass management, one that has analog headroom to account for 0dBFS + 10dB (theoretical max).

 

What I am trying to say is: do you rip the discs then run them in JRMC?

You do need a Blu-ray player. Internal ones are around $50 and external are less than $100. You don't have to rip the movie. You can just insert disc and start to play. You do also need software running like anyDVD to remove encryption. Unlike a receiver, JRMC leaves the LFE channel at -10 dB and allows you to increase gain at the subwoofer amp. This preserves headroom and also allows for bass management without 0dBFS+. If it does exceed 0dBfs, then there is clip protection built in and you would see this in the graphs.