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#85 The Low Frequency Content Thread (films, games, music, etc)

Posted by maxmercy on 09 October 2012 - 01:56 AM

This is the first of it's kind objective measurement tool for comparing the bass in movies - it's totally apples-to-apples.  (The measurement methodology AND content below 2.5 Stars is at the bottom of this post.)
No longer do you have to rely on some website's review of the bass in a movie.  Who can decipher what "aplomb" and "bombastic" and "incredibly deep" and "teeth-rattling" and "room-shuddering" really mean, anyway?  Now you don't have to.
The links below will take you to each movie's measurements.  If a link doesn't take you to the right measurement, reload the browser by hitting F5 or just click on the address bar and hit "Enter."  If you find a bad link, post about it and we'll investigate!
Updated December 12, 2015 - Here's a Google docs spreadsheet with the current list.  To sort, goto View-->List.
5-Star Films:

Edge of Tomorrow
Flight of the Phoenix
Hellboy II: The Golden Army

Star Trek
War Horse
4.75-Star Films:
All Is Lost
Captain America - The Winter Soldier
Ender's Game
The Golden Compass
How to Train Your Dragon
The Hurt Locker
The Incredible Hulk
Jupiter Ascending
Kick-Ass 2
Live Free or Die Hard
Lone Survivor
Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol
Olympus Has Fallen
Resident Evil: Apocalypse
The Terror Live
The Three Musketeers (2011)
War of the Worlds

4.5-Star Films:

28 Weeks Later
300: Rise of an Empire
5 Days of War
Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter
After Earth
The Amazing Spider-Man 2
Attack the Block
Battle: Los Angeles
Conan the Barbarian (2011)
Crank: High Voltage
The Dark Knight
The Day After Tomorrow
Exodus: Gods and Kings
The Expendables 3
Finding Nemo
The Grandmaster (CHI)
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix
The Iceman


Jurassic World
The Man with the Iron Fists
The Matrix Revolutions
Ninja Assassin
Oz the Great and Powerful
Percy Jackson and the Olympians: The Lightning Thief
Sherlock Holmes
Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow (DTS)
Solomon Kane
Superman Returns
Thor 2: The Dark World
Underworld Awakening
Walking With Dinosaurs (2013)
X-Men 3
4.25-Star Films:
10,000 B.C.
A Good Day to Die Hard

The Admiral: Roaring Currents
Adventures in Zambezia
The Amazing Spider-Man
Assassin's Bullet
Batman Begins
Black Hawk Down
Bullet to the Head
Captain America: The First Avenger
Casino Royale
Cat Run 2

Clash of the Titans
The Conjuring
The Dark Knight Rises
Dead in Tombstone
Death Race 2
Earth to Echo
Evil Dead
The Exorcism of Emily Rose
The Expendables 2
The Grandmaster (USA)
The Grey
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
Horton Hears a Who
Hot Fuzz
The Incredibles
Jack the Giant Slayer
John Wick
Jurassic Park III
Legend of the Guardians: The Owls of Ga'Hoole
LOTR: The Fellowship of the Ring (BR Ext Ed)

Mad Max: Fury Road
The Maze Runner
Monsters, Inc.
Monsters University
The Mortal Instruments: City of Bones
Need For Speed
Open Range
Pearl Harbor
Piranha 3D
Quantom of Solace
The Raid 2: Berandal
Resident Evil: Afterlife
Rise of the Planet of the Apes
Running Scared
Scott Pilgrim Vs. the World
Seventh Son
Shaun of the Dead
Sin City
Sin City 2
Star Wars: A New Hope
Total Recall
Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen
Tron: Legacy
World War Z
The World's End
X-Men 2
X-Men: Days of Future Past
X-Men: First Class
4-Star Films:
3:10 to Yuma
The Bourne Legacy
The Bourne Ultimatum
Children of Men
Death Race: Inferno
Despicable Me 2
Escape Plan
Fight Club
GI Joe: Retaliation
Iron Man 2
Jack Ryan: Shadow Recruit
Knight and Day
Legends of Oz: Dorothy's Return
LOTR: The Return of the King (BR Ext Ed)
The Machine
Max Payne
Monster House
Ninja: Shadow of a Tear (aka Ninja 2)
Pacific Rim (7.1 DTS-HD MA)
The Railway Man
Real Steel
Resident Evil: Retribution
Star Wars: Attack of the Clones
Star Wars: The Phantom Menace
Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines
Terminator Salvation
Toy Story 2
Toy Story 3
Transformers: Age of Extinction
The Wolverine (7.1 DTS-HD Unleashed Ext Ed)
3.75-Star Films:
3 Days to Kill
Alien Vs. Predator
The Art of Flight
Babylon A.D.
Bee Movie
Captain Phillips
Don Jon
The Fast and the Furious 6
Green Lantern
Guardians of the Galaxy
Happy Feet
Ice Age
Ice Age: Dawn of the Dinosaurs
Insidious Chapter 2
Into the Woods
Iron Man
Jarhead 2
Jurassic Park

Kingsman: The Secret Service
Kung Fu Panda
LOTR: The Fellowship of the Ring (Theatrical BR)
LOTR: The Two Towers (BR Ext Ed)
The Lords of Salem
Machete Kills
The Raid: Redemption
Rambo (2008 Theatrical)
Robocop (2014)
Seal Team Eight
The Simpsons Movie
Star Trek Into Darkness
The Watch
Wrath of the Titans
X-Men Origins: Wolverine
3.5-Star Films:
13 Sins
30 Days of Night
The A-Team
Act of Valor
Alien Abduction
Blue Crush
The Croods
Dr. Seuss' The Lorax
The Equalizer
The Frozen Ground
Fruitvale Station
Godzilla (2014)
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban
The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
The Hunger Games: Catching Fire
The Hunger Games: Mockingjay Part 1
I, Robot
Ice Age: The Meltdown
King Kong (2005)
The Legend of Hercules
The Lego Movie
The Losers
Man of Steel
Man of Tai Chi
The Man With the Iron Fists 2
The Matrix Reloaded
Mission Impossible III
The Monuments Men
Pain and Gain
Paranormal Activity The Marked Ones
Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows
Speed Racer
Star Wars: Return of the Jedi (BR)
Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith (BR)
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2014)
This Is the End
Titan AE (DVD)
Transformers: Dark of the Moon
Underworld: Rise of the Lycans
Zero Dark Thirty
3.25-Star Films:
21 Jump Street
American Sniper
The Art of the Steal

Avengers: Age of Ultron
Batman: Under the Red Hood
Black Sea
The Book Thief
Carrie (2013)
Cowboys & Aliens
The Double

Ex Machina
The Family
Frankenstein's Army
Gangster Squad
The Great Gatsby (2013)
Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince
The Hunger Games
I, Frankenstein
Into the Storm
Iron Man 3
Knights of Badassdom
The Last Days On Mars
Minority Report
Out of the Furnace
Reasonable Doubt
Runner Runner
Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back (BR)
Taken 2
Toy Story
Veronica MarsThe Movie
3-Star Films:
2 Guns
A Touch of Sin
Big Hero 6
Blade Runner
Brick Mansions
The Cabin in the Woods
Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
Die Hard
District 9
The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug
Ice Age: Continental Drift
The International
The Internship
The Lone Ranger
The Lost World: Jurassic Park
Man On Fire
Master & Commander (BR)
Red 2
Resident Evil: Extinction
Ride Along
Saving Private Ryan
Vampire Academy
2.75-Star Films:
28 Days Later
Blood Ties
Cloudy With A Chance of Meatballs 2
Devil's Due
Die Another Day
Don't Be Afraid of the Dark
Dracula Untold
Grudge Match
Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone
How to Train Your Dragon 2
I Am Number Four
The Matrix
Metallica Through the Never
Percy Jackson: Sea of Monsters
Planes: Fire and Rescue
Resident Evil
2.5-Star Films:
The Babadook
Bad Country
Death Race
The Fifth Element
The Natural

Attached Files

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#3804 Push Pull Slot Loaded quad SI HT18s

Posted by maxmercy on 10 August 2014 - 01:30 AM

I may be able to do something like that....I'm building 8 sealed boxes right now.  Hornresp could probably sim it with its newer capabilities.

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#6652 Signal Chain Loopback Measurements

Posted by Ricci on 19 March 2015 - 03:12 PM

Tons of loopbacks.


Note that on a few of the measurements you will see a sharp drop off or spike up near 20kHz. Those are artifacts due to the limitations of the measurements sampling rate and not part of the devices response.


EQ Devices:

Rane PE-17
Attached File  rane pe17 fr.jpg   57.42KB   128 downloads
Symmetrix 551E
Attached File  symetrix 551e fr.jpg   77.03KB   161 downloads
Behringer DCX2496
Attached File  dcx2496 roll off 032612.jpg   73.48KB   160 downloads
Turtle Beach SRM
Attached File  srm 061510.jpg   73.76KB   136 downloads
M-Audio Mobile Pre
Attached File  maudio mobilepre fr 052410.jpg   105.1KB   127 downloads
Presonus Firebox
Attached File  firebox fr.jpg   90.94KB   149 downloads





Peavey PV-14

Attached File  peavey pv14.jpg   56.28KB   184 downloads
Behringer Xenyx 1202
Attached File  xenyx 1202 fr.jpg   57.29KB   126 downloads
Receivers / Processors:
Pioneer VSX-517K SW Out
Attached File  vsx517k sw fr 200hz.jpg   56.36KB   124 downloads
Outlaw Audio Model 950 SW Out
Attached File  outlaw 950 sw 150hz fr.jpg   58.39KB   142 downloads
Onkyo TX-SR806 SW Out
Attached File  806 lf roll off.jpg   74.59KB   115 downloads





Crown CE4000

Attached File  ce4000 fr.jpg   59.18KB   110 downloads
Crest Audio 8002
Attached File  8002 ch 1.jpg   63.48KB   142 downloads
AETechron 7560 / Crown M600 (DC coupled)
Attached File  7560 fr.jpg   56.67KB   115 downloads
Attached File  pl9.0 fr.jpg   57.85KB   175 downloads
Powersoft K10 / Klein Hummel KPA-2400
Attached File  k10 lf roll off.jpg   73.49KB   164 downloads

Attached Files

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#5987 John Wick - Discussion & Poll - CLOSED

Posted by nube on 04 February 2015 - 01:40 AM

John Wick (7.1 TrueHD)


Level        - 3 Stars (109.38dB composite)
Extension - 5 Stars (1Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (28.5dB)

Execution - 4 Stars (by poll)


Overall     - 4.25 Stars

Recommendation - Buy (by poll)


Notes:  Very solid bass.  Nothing demo worthy, but just generally good.  Movie was OK.  Loved the scenes in the hotel and nightclub.





Attached Files

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#4807 Luke's Gjallarhorn/Othorn Discussion

Posted by lukeamdman on 07 November 2014 - 04:21 AM

A few recent SPL videos, and the addition of 21ipal drivers to my Othorns has caused some discussion recently.  I figured I'd stop hijacking threads and start one here.  


To start, some information on the components of my system.




(2) Gjallarhorns (loaded with LMS 5400 Ultras)

(2) Othorns (loaded with B&C 21-IPAL drivers)


L/R Mains:


Dual AE TD18H+ in 9.5cu.ft 25hz ported boxes, SEOS-24 w/BMS 4594ND




AE TD15M in a 4cu.ft 45hz ported box, SEOS-12 w/Denovo DNA-360


(4) Radian 5210 in .60cu.ft angled boxes. Crossovers designed/built by Matt Grant (mtg90)




(2) Crest CC5500 (one bridged to each Ghorn)

SpeakerPower SP2-12000 (powering the Othorns in stereo)

Crest Pro-Lite 7.5 (quad AE TD18H+)

Lab Gruppen IPD 2400 (SEOS-24 w/BMS 4594ND)

Crest CC4000 (center)

Behringer iNuke NU4-6000 (surrounds)


Processor, EQ, and Blu-ray:


Marantz AV7005

MiniDSP 10x10HD

Oppo BDP-93





For measurement equipment, I have a calibrated UMIK-1 from Cross Spectrum Labs, and a SPL Lab USB meter.  


There are 6 circuits dedicated to the amp rack, and a 7th circuit also but that's shared with the room. The SpeakerPower amp is on a dedicated 240v 30A line, the Crest CC5500 amps are each on dedicated 30A 120v lines, and the Crest ProLite 7.5 is on a dedicated 20A 120v line. 


The room is in a basement on a concrete floor that measures roughly 23'x12.5' with 8ft ceilings.  The back wall behind the seating, as well as the right hand side wall are cinder block.  The other two walls have two layers of 5/8" drywall.




Here's how the subs are positioned behind the TV:







Here's the back of the room.  Rear seating is on a riser:





Here's the latest frequency response sweep at the main LP:






Impedance of the 21-IPAL loaded in an Othorn:



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#4562 Sundown Zv4 18d2 Sealed Tests discussion

Posted by Ricci on 18 October 2014 - 05:15 PM

Discussions of or questions about the Sundown Zv4 and its measurements should go here.

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#3990 BOSSOBASS Raptor system 3

Posted by Ricci on 04 September 2014 - 01:10 PM

I don't care Dave. This thread is about your subs anyway. Great looking system BTW.
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#15569 Ricci's Skhorn Subwoofer

Posted by Ricci on 13 January 2017 - 03:45 PM

Yeah a bit more listening. Really like it. Both this and the Othorn do something right that I'm not sure how to quantify.


It's probably the extra speed and slam these designs offer.


I spent months making sure these would be super ultra mega fast and airy sounding. On my first prototypes I actually had too much speed and I found out that the cones were breaking from the G-forces involved in stopping and starting so quickly. In fact one of the early prototypes exploded into a flaming inferno when I fed it 1.21 giga-volts and the air friction inside the cabinet became too great due to the extreme high-speed and airiness. The sound was so tight that the bass notes stopped and started faster than my ear drum could respond to the pressure changes. It was almost like the bass wasn't even there. I'd actually created a bass system that was too tight with too much speed. In fact these new cabs would often need delayed by 3 or 4 seconds so that the HF from the tweeters could keep up.  A lot of this had to do with the arrangement of the panels inside the sub that create the particle vortex processor chamber and high velocity, phase recombining, acoustic injection system.  After a lot of tweaks I finally have it detuned to a point where it isn't weaponized and is safe for domestic use but still maintains every bit of the speed and tightness almost 73% of the time.

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#7735 Stereo Integrity HS-24 Measurements & General Discussion

Posted by Ricci on 15 May 2015 - 02:30 PM

Just laying around by the pool all month, getting fed grapes by a couple of tall Scandinavians. C'mon guys I'm sure you can understand. Priorities...

Plus Nick's driver pulled a gun on me, beat up my neighbors Bose Lifetyle system then called the cops on itself last week. I'm waiting for it to get out of jail so I can wrap things up.

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#5077 Signal Chain Loopback Measurements

Posted by 3ll3d00d on 19 November 2014 - 08:20 PM

I thought I'd get the ball rolling from


It would be great if those with REW would do a simple loopback of their AVR, PEQ, Pre/Pro, amplifiers, etc. and post them is a thread dedicated to signal chain loopback measurements. It's so easy to do, I wonder why everyone doesn't do it. REW is free and you don't need a mic or anything else to do the loopback.


basic process is just to take an output from whichever device you're measuring and then feed that back to your soundcard (taking due care with levels if measuring an amp) then take a measurement in REW. A few things to bear in mind;


* make sure you have an appropriate (soundcard) cal file loaded to counter any purely measurement artefacts (e.g. a hpf on a line in is not that uncommon)

If your measurement covers multiple devices (e.g. perhaps you first loopback over your bd player and then you loopback over your bd player + processor) & you have a measurement for each stage then you can use the "A / B" trace arithmetic function to see the contribution of each individual stage 



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#4815 Subwoofer EQ solutions - the options?

Posted by MemX on 07 November 2014 - 07:44 AM

Hey all,


I apologise in advance for this as it is the laziest post in the worrrrrld...


[/jeremy clarkson]


... but basically, I am struggling to get my head round the different sub EQ options out there, especially how low the options go, so I was hoping I could be set straight, if anyone has the time, energy and inclination! :)


If not, no worries :P lol



Anyway, from what I can see, we have:


- on-amp EQ, e.g. iNuke DSP - seems to work reasonably well, if a little confusing for us non-IT types, but options for extending below 20Hz are limited (but possible via LT or shelf filter, I believe?).  Possible issues with roll-off of amps with this on them.


- on-AVR Audyssey - would seem to be the easiest of all, with the AVR just EQing everything in one Audyssey run, but IIRC it only EQs down to 10Hz and there is no way to shape the profile bar band-wide increases/decreases of the subwoofer level, meaning no house curve etc possible.


- BFD1124 / 2496 - seems quite versatile, perhaps too 'old school' now - but not sure how low it goes? plus it looks a bit tricky and potentially easy to over-EQ with too many filters?


- AntiMode - does this only do cuts, not boosts?  With a 10Hz lower limit for EQ?


- MiniDSP - seems most versatile of the options? (that don't require purchase of an associated bossobass system :D lol)  I am sure I have read it EQs down to 10Hz (with both cuts and boost) but then I have it in my head that I have also seen it goes down to 3Hz, so I am just confused...

[EDIT:  Looks like it goes down to 10Hz but you can set a wide lift/cut that should affect lower down?  See page 28-29, section 3.5 of the manual:

http://www.minidsp.c...Manual v2.1.pdf]


- Bossobassis SEQSS - goes lowest of the EQ options, flat to 3Hz IIRC, with the ability to boost by up to 10? 15? dB across its whole range, but not a standalone purchase option and I can't afford a full system :( lol


- HTPC systems seemingly have little roll off and are flexible on the EQ front, but look a nightmare to setup...



If it was possible to confirm which goes lowest / is most flexible/easy, etc, that would be excellent - I need to purchase something so I can boost the very low end and MiniDSP seems to be the only/best option at the moment in my head!

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#4789 Reaction Audio Measurements & Discussion Thread

Posted by Ricci on 06 November 2014 - 03:41 PM

Discussion of or questions about the Reaction Audio subs or their measurements should go here.  :)

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#4644 BMS 18N862 Sealed Measurements Thread

Posted by Ricci on 26 October 2014 - 07:59 PM

Discussion of or questions on the BMS driver and its measurements should go here.


This is one of the best all around bass drivers I've found yet. It's got enough displacement to legitimately reproduce the low stuff, it is quite efficient and doesn't require much more than a 1kw amp to get most of its performance, its coil will handle that much amp all day long without breaking a sweat. It is rugged and immune to bottoming for the most part, with good overload characteristics, it has very low distortion thanks to the triple shorting rings and it has an excellent top end that can easily be used up into the 450Hz range or wherever you want to cross it over to control your dispersion pattern hand off to your mid driver up top. Did I mention it weighs less than 24lbs?

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#4343 JBL 2242HPL Sealed Test Results

Posted by Ricci on 03 October 2014 - 09:02 PM

The results for this system are now available. Any discussion of the measurements should go here.

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#2074 Gjallarhorn version 2

Posted by Ricci on 05 December 2013 - 09:26 PM

Here is the fold of the improved second version of the GH. The goals or main areas of improvement to be addressed with the new version are...

A cleaner fold pattern with less bends overall, less short 180 degree folds and use more 90 degree bends where possible.(The original Gjallarhorn fold had 9 bends and 5 180 degree bends. The 2nd generation has 7 bends and 4 of them are 180 degree)

Reduce the air friction and "drag" in the enclosure by reducing the amount and sharpness of bends. This should aid in reducing compression and air turbulence at higher output levels.

Increase the throat volume slightly in order to also reduce throat compression and add excursion clearance.

Match closely the response shape and corner of the original.

Reduce mechanical/motor noise and the outer panel vibration especially at the mouth by moving the driver deeper into the enclosure and allow for more bracing around the driver baffle and mounting area. Less cabinet vibration at heavy output.

Switch the driver to a mounting position that places it in a horizontal position in all typical cabinet orientations both lying flat and standing. The old GH places the driver in a vertical position when operating in the standing position which could lead to cone sag over time.

Performance should be virtually identical but if there is any performance difference it would be a slight nod to the new version simply due to a better braced cab around the driver and less bends so a little better air flow through the horn. If anything it would show up at war volume with compression sweeps but I'm just guessing here.The cabinet now has a pair of side hatches for driver access.

Attached is screen capture of the first generation fold and the second generation fold...


Below is the Akabak script for simulating the GH 2 which includes the cone volume and the driver frame and motor in the horn path.






|File > Preferences > Physical system constants:


|Sound velocity c = 344m/s

|Medium density rho = 1.205kg/m3


|Sum > Acoustic power:


|Frequency range = 10Hz to 20kHz

|Points = 533

|Input voltage = 1.0V rms

|Integration = 2Pi-sr

|Integration steps = 1 degree ... 1 degree

|Integration method = Cross




Def_Const |


|Length, area and volume values converted to metres, square metres and cubic metres:


S1  =   115.353e-4;  |Horn segment 1 throat area (sq cm)
S2  =   633.5e-4;  |Horn segment 1 mouth area and horn segment 2 throat area (sq cm)+278cm driver (cm)355.51728
S3  =   387.92568e-4;  |Horn segment 2 mouth area and horn segment 3 throat area (sq cm)end cone
S4  =   416.03208e-4;  |Horn segment 3 mouth area and horn segment 4 throat area (sq cm)
S5  =   589.77552e-4;  |Horn segment 4 mouth area and horn segment 5 throat area (sq cm)
S6  =   418.1544e-4;  |Horn segment 5 mouth area and horn segment 6 throat area (sq cm)
S7  =   420.162e-4;  |Horn segment 6 mouth area and horn segment 7 throat area (sq cm)
S8  =   597.86328e-4;  |Horn segment 7 mouth area and horn segment 8 throat area (sq cm)
S9  =   425.43912e-4;  |Horn segment 8 mouth area and horn segment 9 throat area (sq cm)
S10  =   528.5724e-4;  |Horn segment 9 mouth area and horn segment 10 throat area (sq cm)
S11  =   750.72768e-4;  |Horn segment 10 mouth area and horn segment 11 throat area (sq cm)
S12  =   533.21856e-4;  |Horn segment 11 mouth area and horn segment 12 throat area (sq cm)
S13  =   659.52528e-4;  |Horn segment 12 mouth area and horn segment 13 throat area (sq cm)
S14  =   727.95576e-4;  |Horn segment 13 mouth area and horn segment 14 throat area (sq cm)
S15  =   684.36216e-4;  |Horn segment 14 mouth area and horn segment 15 throat area (sq cm)
S16  =   730.36488e-4;  |Horn segment 15 mouth area and horn segment 16 throat area (sq cm)
S17  =   664.34352e-4;  |Horn segment 16 mouth area and horn segment 17 throat area (sq cm)
S18  =   666.40848e-4;  |Horn segment 17 mouth area and horn segment 18 throat area (sq cm)
S19  =   947.07096e-4;  |Horn segment 18 mouth area and horn segment 19 throat area (sq cm)
S20  =   673.1196e-4;  |Horn segment 19 mouth area and horn segment 20 throat area (sq cm)
S21  =   817.32264e-4;  |Horn segment 20 mouth area and horn segment 21 throat area (sq cm)
S22  =   1160.90904e-4;  |Horn segment 21 mouth area and horn segment 22 throat area (sq cm)
S23  =   824.60736e-4;  |Horn segment 22 mouth area and horn segment 23 throat area (sq cm)
S24  =   960.09168e-4;  |Horn segment 23 mouth area and horn segment 24 throat area (sq cm)
S25  =   1363.84872e-4;  |Horn segment 24 mouth area and horn segment 25 throat area (sq cm)
S26  =   968.86776e-4;  |Horn segment 25 mouth area and horn segment 26 throat area (sq cm)
S27  =   1092.93744e-4;  |Horn segment 26 mouth area and horn segment 27 throat area (sq cm)
S28  =  1629.82704e-4;  |Horn segment 27 mouth area and horn segment 28 throat area (sq cm)
S29  =   1209.26352e-4;  |Horn segment 28 mouth area and horn segment 29 throat area (sq cm)
S30  =   1211.32848e-4;  |Horn segment 29 mouth area and horn segment 30 throat area (sq cm)
S31  =   1347.90264e-4;  |Horn segment 30 mouth area and horn segment 31 throat area (sq cm)
S32  =   1274.76864e-4;  |Horn segment 31 mouth area and horn segment 32 throat area (sq cm)
S33  =   1365.79896e-4;  |Horn segment 32 mouth area and horn segment 33 throat area (sq cm)
S34  =   1334.42304e-4;  |Horn segment 33 mouth area and horn segment 34 throat area (sq cm)
S35  =   1629.82704e-4;  |Horn segment 34 mouth area and horn segment 35 throat area (sq cm)
S36  =   2465.39016e-4;  |Horn segment 35 mouth area and horn segment 36 throat area (sq cm)
S37  =   1867.81368e-4;  |Horn segment 36 mouth area and horn segment 37 throat area (sq cm)
S38  =   1882.21104e-4;  |Horn segment 37 mouth area and horn segment 38 throat area (sq cm)
S39  =   1457e-4;  |Horn segment 38 mouth area and horn segment 39 throat area (sq cm)-716cm driver 2172.56736
S40  =   2115e-4;  |Horn segment 39 mouth area and horn segment 40 throat area (sq cm)-716cm driver 2830.716
S41  =   2088.1908e-4;  |Horn segment 40 mouth area and horn segment 41 throat area (sq cm)end motor
S42  =   2076.1452e-4;  |Horn segment 41 mouth area and horn segment 42 throat area (sq cm)
S43  =   2416.74888e-4;  |Horn segment 42 mouth area and horn segment 43 throat area (sq cm)
S44  =   2432.17872e-4;  |Horn segment 43 mouth area and horn segment 44 throat area (sq cm)
S45  =   3562.97376e-4;  |Horn segment 44 mouth area (sq cm)



L12 =     23.777e-2;  |Horn segment 1 axial length (cm)
L23 =     19.048e-2;  |Horn segment 2 axial length (cm)
L34 =     16.533e-2;  |Horn segment 3 axial length (cm)
L45 =    2.8535e-2;  |Horn segment 4 axial length (cm)
L56 =    2.8535e-2;  |Horn segment 5 axial length (cm)
L67 =     1.2e-2;  |Horn segment 6 axial length (cm)
L78 =     2.89e-2;  |Horn segment 7 axial length (cm)
L89 =    2.89e-2;  |Horn segment 8 axial length (cm)
L910 =   60.598e-2;  |Horn segment 9 axial length (cm)
L1011 =   3.6305e-2;  |Horn segment 10 axial length (cm)
L1112 =  3.6305e-2;  |Horn segment 11 axial length (cm)
L1213 =    74.186e-2;  |Horn segment 12 axial length (cm)
L1314 =   2.43e-2;  |Horn segment 13 axial length (cm)
L1415 =   2.003e-2;  |Horn segment 14 axial length (cm)
L1516 =   2.058e-2;  |Horn segment 15 axial length (cm)
L1617 =  2.564e-2;  |Horn segment 16 axial length (cm)
L1718 =  1.2e-2;  |Horn segment 17 axial length (cm)
L1819 =   4.579e-2;  |Horn segment 18 axial length (cm)
L1920 =  4.579e-2;  |Horn segment 19 axial length (cm)
L2021 =  84.736e-2;  |Horn segment 20 axial length (cm)
L2122 =  5.614e-2;  |Horn segment 21 axial length (cm)
L2223 =  5.614e-2;  |Horn segment 22 axial length (cm)
L2324 =  79.590e-2;  |Horn segment 23 axial length (cm)
L2425 =  6.595e-2;  |Horn segment 24 axial length (cm)
L2526 =  6.595e-2;  |Horn segment 25 axial length (cm)
L2627 =  72.908e-2;  |Horn segment 26 axial length (cm)
L2728 = 7.7865e-2;  |Horn segment 27 axial length (cm)
L2829 =  7.7865e-2;  |Horn segment 28 axial length (cm)
L2930 = 1.2e-2;  |Horn segment 29 axial length (cm)
L3031 = 4.658e-2;  |Horn segment 30 axial length (cm)
L3132 = 3.570e-2;  |Horn segment 31 axial length (cm)
L3233 = 4.071e-2;  |Horn segment 32 axial length (cm)
L3334 = 3.942e-2;  |Horn segment 33 axial length (cm)
L3435 = 24.498e-2;  |Horn segment 34 axial length (cm)
L3536 = 11.79e-2;  |Horn segment 35 axial length (cm)
L3637 = 11.79e-2;  |Horn segment 36 axial length (cm)
L3738 = 1.2e-2;  |Horn segment 37 axial length (cm)
L3839 = 7.039e-2;  |Horn segment 38 axial length (cm)
L3940 = 5.276e-2;  |Horn segment 39 axial length (cm)
L4041 = 10.539e-2;  |Horn segment 40 axial length (cm)
L4142 = 4.256e-2;  |Horn segment 41 axial length (cm)
L4243 = 32.943e-2;  |Horn segment 42 axial length (cm)
L4344 =  0.678e-2;  |Horn segment 43 axial length (cm)
L4445 =  10.311e-2;  |Horn segment 44 axial length (cm)



|Parameter Conversions:

Sd  = 1194.6e-4;  |Diaphragm area (sq cm)




|Network node numbers for this tapped horn system:


|               0-Voltage-1

|                         |

|           -Chamber-5-Driver---

|          |                    |





Def_Driver 'Driver'






  fs=20.50Hz  |Mmd = 482.71g not recognised by AkAbak, fs calculated and used instead






System 'System'


  Driver Def='Driver''Driver'



  Waveguide 'Segment 1'






  Waveguide 'Segment 2'






  Waveguide 'Segment 3'






Waveguide 'Segment 4'






  Waveguide 'Segment 5'






  Waveguide 'Segment 6'






  Waveguide 'Segment 7'






  Waveguide 'Segment 8'






  Waveguide 'Segment 9'






  Waveguide 'Segment 10'






  Waveguide 'Segment 11'






  Waveguide 'Segment 12'






  Waveguide 'Segment 13'






  Waveguide 'Segment 14'






  Waveguide 'Segment 15'






  Waveguide 'Segment 16'






  Waveguide 'Segment 17'






  Waveguide 'Segment 18'






  Waveguide 'Segment 19'






  Waveguide 'Segment 20'






  Waveguide 'Segment 21'





  Waveguide 'Segment 22'






  Waveguide 'Segment 23'






  Waveguide 'Segment 24'






  Waveguide 'Segment 25'






  Waveguide 'Segment 26'




  Waveguide 'Segment 27'





  Waveguide 'Segment 28'





  Waveguide 'Segment 29'




Waveguide 'Segment 30'




Waveguide 'Segment 31'




Waveguide 'Segment 32'




Waveguide 'Segment 33'




Waveguide 'Segment 34'




Waveguide 'Segment 35'



Waveguide 'Segment 36'



Waveguide 'Segment 37'



Waveguide 'Segment 38'



Waveguide 'Segment 39'



Waveguide 'Segment 40'



Waveguide 'Segment 41'



Waveguide 'Segment 42'



Waveguide 'Segment 43'



Waveguide 'Segment 44'



 Radiator 'Horn mouth'



Attached Files

  • ragefury, LTD02, RobertMr and 3 others like this

#1974 Upcoming Testing Possibilities?

Posted by Infrasonic on 09 November 2013 - 04:48 PM

 Yes, a lot less


It won't use the variable resistive coil as that is not developed as a product yet but its a 3" coil, copper over the poll, larger magnet.

 Ahhhrrooo? Not variable coil? So is it not LMS tech anymore?


I'm cornfused. :P


Lol, guess I'll just wait til you get to play with it.

  • RobertMr, Braifaraglisp, Martinet and 4 others like this

#16200 Ricci's Skhorn Subwoofer

Posted by Ricci on 25 March 2017 - 01:46 PM

Yesterday was the day. Spent about 12hrs testing the Ipal loaded version in every configuration with the SP6000 amp and the K20. It's capable and after the equivalent of 6 full tests back to back, I can say it won't be easy to blow one. It's going to take a while to get through all of the information in detail.
  • Infrasonic, lilmike, Ukko Kari and 4 others like this

#15206 Ricci's Skhorn Subwoofer

Posted by Ricci on 11 November 2016 - 10:24 PM

Here's the design I'm going to be using to replace my Othorn. It's been "almost" done for a long time now but I finally made an effort to wrap it up to the point that it is ready to build. Originally I was going to go with another TH design I was calling the Palehorn to replace the Othorn but I wasn't quite happy with it. I stumbled on this type of cab a few years ago while doing a billion simulations of different cabinet designs. You can read some of that in the M.A.U.L. thread. I originally planned to try this design first since it was smaller and cheaper to produce but circumstances led to the bigger more complicated M.A.U.L. getting done first. Since this style of 6th order bandpass / horn cab worked quite well and on target with the bigger design, I used what was learned there to make a few tweaks to this and finally wrap it up.  


I'll add a lot more info later, but here are some pics to start with.


If anyone feels froggy and wants to have a go at building one of these let me know and I'll send the plans.



Attached File  SKHORN ISO.jpg   82.94KB   19 downloads

Attached File  SKHORN ISO BACK.jpg   76.46KB   21 downloads

Attached File  SKHORN ISO TOP REMOVED.jpg   109.67KB   17 downloads

Attached File  SKHORN ISO HATCHES.jpg   83.36KB   21 downloads

Attached File  SKHORN ISO FRONT REMOVED.jpg   108.68KB   20 downloads

Attached File  SKHORN ISO 2.jpg   113.92KB   25 downloads

Attached File  SKHORN ISO 3.jpg   118.87KB   23 downloads

Attached File  Skhorn work.jpg   95.36KB   21 downloads

Attached File  Skhorn middle tuning.jpg   95.38KB   24 downloads

Attached File  SKHORN sim RESPONSE.jpg   73.95KB   21 downloads

Attached File  SKHORN sim excursion.jpg   67.82KB   23 downloads



Simplified design layout. Add bracing, drivers, hatches, hardware to taste.

Attached File  SKHORN basic layout.jpg   108.76KB   19 downloads

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#14100 ZOD Audio M.A.U.L. Test Results and Discussion

Posted by Ricci on 24 July 2016 - 05:59 PM

Ok it's story time.


About 3-4 years ago I was rocking my pair Gjallarhorn's and feeling pretty good about it, but other guys were starting to build GH's for themselves or do similar style TH's, so I started to feel like I wasn't the coolest kid on the block anymore, which is unacceptable. Also my inner nerd starting saying crazy stuff like "Shit's weak" and "You're done here, tweeters bro". About that time I started thinking hey... I've learned a bit and I think I can push the envelope a bit more and make a few improvements. I started off where any typical bass head would, I need more output, I need it to go a little deeper too while we're at it. Also can I make the response a little smoother and improve the distortion performance? The usual stuff. Try to kick the old designs ass across the board.


So here was the original goals I started out working with.


1.)  Keep same cabinet size / shape. It had to fit into the same location/system as the current GH cabs.This entails the cab being tucked back into a corner with either a large desk or a large rack unit on a 3rd side and a large set of main speakers sitting on top. What this means is that all output must radiate from a single 45x24" side of the cab. The other cabinet walls are butted up very close to boundaries. There is no room for vents, PR's or drivers on any of these other enclosure faces.


2.) Increase headroom over the GH in the deep bass primarily but everywhere below 100Hz if possible.


3.) Improve distortion performance and response smoothness over the 60-120Hz octave.


4.) Increase long term reliability and ruggedness.


Ok so how do you get more performance out of the same size cab? You increase driver displacement capability, efficiency and power handling. Rather quickly I determined that no single driver was going to offer that much over the 5400. Any of the drivers that had a notable displacement advantage on the 5400 either had less thermal power handling, much higher distortion or simply did not have enough motor and/ or lacked the correct suspension to work in a TH or FLH of that size. Well then...Let's increase the driver count that way smaller drivers become viable. This allows the total VD of the drivers to be increased a lot more as well as allowing multiple voice coils to spread the power across. Win Win! And there are more options for drivers that might have the right set of attributes to work in a cab that size with the desired extension. Months of modeling followed. I probably have 300 discarded simulations in HR just looking for combinations that would work right in a FLH or TH cab that size. Double 15", triple 12", quad 10", double 18", quad 12", 6x10", you name it. I eventually identified some combinations that looked nasty in HR sim land. At this point the gears switched to designing a real cab that matched the simulation and fit into the space available. This part was tough and weeded out a few more contenders. Eventually I dismissed FLH as not having enough cab volume to effectively get low enough with enough sensitivity. I also gave up on doing an opposed driver, force canceling TH design as it greatly complicated the folding, wasted cab space internally and just didn't work well. Remember this was not a 35Hz tuned TH, but a whole octave lower so the path length is LONG. Eventually I developed a couple of TH cab designs that were build-able. Not pretty by any means but they could work. The favorite TH ended up having 6 10" drivers. It folded up the best, had a ton of motors to absorb heat and the drivers were less deep so the hatches were smaller. The bracing worked out better too. This design looked somewhat similar in folding to the GH version 2. At this point I started up Akabak and did the detailed script which included the drivers loading into different points along the horn path. The results were not good. The response changed some but the big concern was that the drivers behaved much different from each other. The excursion profiles vs frequency were different and it became quite uncontrolled on the drivers furthest from the throat. This simulation showed greatly reduced output before the drivers met xmech due to this and other issues. The design was scrapped. You may be thinking, well no duh, just design the throat and mouth of the horn to load all of the drivers the same. I tried, there's just not enough cab space to work with. Why not try 2 smaller symmetric horns joined into one cab? Tried it too. All of the extra folds use a LOT of extra wood increasing weight, cost and more importantly eating the internal volume. The big issue is trying to fit 2 15's or 18's with big ass motors requires double the mouth area or chamber area just to clear the motors and allow hatches,when the path is split into individual horns.


Back to the drawing board. At this point I started over completely and started looking at any and all options for making bass from a 45x45x24 cab. I looked at sealed with multiple drivers and as much SD as possible, looked at vented options, TH, FLH, back vented horn, 4th order BP, 6th order BP and 8th order BP. The limitation with the vented and sealed cabs goes back to the fact that all output must come from the single enclosure face. Sealed systems using a bunch of drivers look good but the sensitivity was still lower than a higher order system and there's a realistic upper limit on how much amplifier can be supplied. The vented systems looked better but still were limited by the amount of driver SD and vent area that could be placed on the front panel. Both sealed and vented were perfectly viable and much easier to design than the TH or FLH systems I'd already simulated but the sensitivity was lower. The horn systems looked a bit more powerful overall.  Also I liked the idea of putting the drivers inside the cab to protect them and to squelch mechanical noises and distortion from the drivers. I then looked at 4th order bandpasses which were quickly ruled out due to not having enough bandwidth. I then started looking at 6th order bandpasses which looked much better and seemed able to sit somewhere in between a TH and a regular vented cab. A little more gain can be had than from a vented sub up at the top of the 6th orders bandwidth but it can be kept smoother than a typical TH or undersized FLH. I then looked at 8th order bandpasses and here things seemed to become promising. You can get even more bandwidth and even more gain than with a 6th order or you can trade the extra bandwidth for even more gain. I developed a few 8th order simulations that looked very promising. I then set about trying to design them into a build-able cab. It quickly became apparent that this was a logistical nightmare. I tried round vents, slot vents, PR's instead of vents and all manner of combinations of chambers and vent types. The problem with 8th orders is that the vent sizes need to be very large to prevent overloading and with 3 of them this eats a ton of space in the cab. Additionally the vents and chamber sizes are extremely sensitive to each other. If something is off the performance can be affected in a large way. I simply couldn't get a workable design put together in the cabinet size and shape I had and the possible issues of having the performance be shifted off mark by vent/PR compression and the tuning being slightly off.


At this point I had exhausted 8th order, TH and FLH designs to my satisfaction, so I went back to 6th order as the next best thing that could actually be built somewhat practically. After a bunch more time spent simulating I came up with a 6th order system that looked good to me. By this point I was pretty firmly set on the drivers I wanted to use. At the beginning I was wanting to use either dual 21-Ipal's or dual 5400's. The 5400's were vaporware by then so I switched to focusing on the 21-Ipal's. These had the best efficiency, power handling and the amount of motor force needed to load a huge amount of SD into an undersized cab. After I began to finalize on a 6th order type system I continued to simulate a lot of variations on the drivers and compliment used and found that 4 of the 21-Ipal's actually looked even better, with double the total displacement capability, thermal handling, and increased mid-band sensitivity in the same size cab. Of course this is even more ridiculous than using 2 21's in the cab so of course I decided it now had to have 4 drivers. I then started working on designing the cab to match the HR sim. At this point I was still using an actual vent for the upper frequency chamber and I began running into trouble with the vent geometry inside of the small chamber. It began to look a bit odd and had some geometries that looked like it could end up affected the air flow and vent tuning. I wasn't feeling good about it. I remembered the way a slot loaded by a driver behaved back from simulating sealed and vented systems with drivers loaded into slots, from back when studying those system types for this design. (One work around I had for fitting more SD than would fit on only the front panel was slot loading the drivers.) I changed the design to slot loaded drivers for the upper frequency range, which looked a bit better and was much cleaner to design into the cab. At that point it was only logical to simulate the system with a slot with a negative taper and also the opposite having a positive horn like expansion, versus with the drivers simply slot loaded. The positive expansion was an improvement over a straight slot and could be adjusted quite a bit to modify the response, so this was the final decision. That is how I ended up using a 6th order system with a vented low frequency section and a short horn loaded upper end section.


As usual with my designs that must fit a certain set of space limits and other limiting critieria, there were some compromises that had to be made.  I started modifying the latest cab design again and attempting to reach a final cab design to build. The goal was always to use opposed drivers to help cancel vibrations. Since I was now using 4 21" drivers. This places very real limitations on their placement and mounting configuration. For one, the drivers have to be able to be accessed for mounting and replacement. For two, the motors have to clear each other and for three you have to be able to brace near the drivers effectively. Also I was planning to use venting of around 730cm area and a very long length so that must be cleared as well. The simplest approach was to place the drivers in a series loading into the short horn path. Now remember way back when I was trying to do a TH design with a series driver loading into the throat? I knew that since the very large drivers were loading into different points in the short horn they would react differently. I figured in this case the horn path is extremely short like a 6th or 7th of the length of the TH and also the drivers are only loading the horn from one section rather than 2 as in the TH. Logically I assumed the effects would be greatly diminished in importance in this case so I soldiered on. I settled on a basic layout with the central chamber being the large vented one containing the port and the drivers and the drivers being arranged firing outwards towards either side in 2 separate short horns. I did this arrangement versus the opposite in order to have one single large vent which should be superior to multiple smaller ones and it also conserves cab volume of the vented section and keeps the number of bracing components down. I decided to use a 12" Ceme-tube for a port at this point since I also had the idea that I could put an extra hatch behind the port and use the ability for the Ceme-Tube to stack to be able to adjust port tuning. I would be able to have the deep 16Hz area tuning and also remove the last section and get a tuning a little higher to really get extreme output going above 25Hz. Also if the tuning came in offset too far from where it needed to be I could cut back the plastic tubing to adjust it if need be. Another consideration is the thin plastic tube takes up less internal volume than an equivalent wood constructed slot port. I ended up with 8 hatches for driver access and 1 for adjusting the vent. I also began tweaking the upper end driver horn and loading by using the little tricks and features I like to put into the horns I'd built and designed over the years. I ended up with a final cab design and a simulated response of it that looked downright great to me. This finalization of the cab 3d model and the prints was somewhere around this same time of year in 2015 I think. 


 I was contacted by a cab builder not long after, who had built a number of Othorns for people and who was willing to help build any new cabs I might need for a reasonable cost. I thought it was worth a shot since it would likely take a very long time for me to build them myself. Their work looked good and the quoted price was reasonable. At this point I was thinking of having them do the Palehorn cabs and that is what we discussed. I soon decided I'd rather go for the M.A.U.L. cabs since they were bigger and more complicated. Also depending on how this cab turned out it would affect whether I'd even pursue the Palehorn design anymore. The next part needs some detailed explanation so I'll cover it in another post.

  • Infrasonic, lukeamdman, chrapladm and 4 others like this

#1051 The Data-Bass Member Equipment List

Posted by Ricci on 27 April 2013 - 02:51 PM

I thought it would be fun for everyone to list their equipment and maybe post a few pics here so others can see what each of us is rocking out on. 


Here is my 2 main systems that get used. I am not going to bother listing everything else... :wacko:


Ricci HT / Room is roughly 9x14x26 carpeted on cement slab with 3 brick walls, a fireplace, an opening to a hallway and french doors. Untreated as of yet...



Samsung 75" LED UN75J6300


Onkyo PR-SC886P (Intermittent HDMI issue again / 3rd time on the search for something.)

Emotiva XPA-5 / Main speakers

Powersoft K20-DSP+AESOP's (x2) (240v line) / Subs



Klipsch CF-4's (L/R)

Klipsch KV-4 (CC)

Klipsch CF-4's (SL/SR)

(8x) RF T3S1-19's in 4 dual opposed sealed cabs of about 4.5cu ft per driver. Wired to 2ohms each cab and 2 cabs wired in series to a K20-Dsp amplifier. Amplifiers running bridged into 4ohms nominal per 4 drivers.



Ricci's Band Space PA

Behringer QX2442USB

Presonus Firestudio 2626

Presonus Digimax F/S

Behringer DCX2496 (x2)

Mackie m1400i (HF)

Behringer Inuke 6000 (Mid)

Crest 8002 x2 (LF)



JBL 2360B horn lenses with 2446H CD's

JBL 4675C cabs loaded with AE TD15M-4ohm Apollo drivers wired in series

Pair of M.A.U.L. subwoofers

  • Infrasonic, RobertMr, Braifaraglisp and 4 others like this