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  5. Ricci and others................. I just saw a big price drop on the 2269H. It is definitely more attractive at this price. https://reconingspeakers.com/product/jbl-2269h-18-lf-8-ohm-boxed/
  6. ErnieM

    Eminence NSW6021-6

    Was recommended Glue-All as a fix...let gravity run the glue down between the back of the surround and frame while rotating the driver vertically. Think I'll mount two face to face for easier balancing. Not going to lie... I'm pretty pissed that they go through quality control like that. I know covid has effected things but what's the point of extended excursion when it's ticking at you before xmax. Maybe the price point is a little low for that kind of attention to detail. I don't know. For the record: Two drivers are silent. One was almost silent(nearly passable). One was very noisy, Two replacements are noisy. Out of 6 drivers I would reject 3 outright. 4 if I was picky.
  7. Ricci

    Vortex & Kraken

    Here's my random thoughts. Shorting sleeve is mentioned but the 1kHz Le rating is way up there at over 2X the Re. Also the shape of the impedance curves shown indicate a very sharp increase in impedance vs freq above the minimum imp above resonance. Indicates a lot of inductance also. Heavy 5" coil and a huge motor with lots of steel. They have not posted the Zma data for download yet, which would allow it to be analyzed with Bolserst's semi inductance excel program to back out the semi Le specs for modeling. Shipping weight is listed at 115lbs. I suspect these drivers are in the 90-100lb range. Two or 3 times as heavy as the pro 21's. Can't see anyone using the Vortex 21 for pro audio work with that kinda weight. Drivers that heavy are a PITA to deal with especially in multiples. Imagine a double 21... Both drivers seem to be nearly identical. They model almost exactly the same except that the Vortex has slightly higher efficiency and upper bass due to the lighter mms. Most of that is probably just from switching surround types and perhaps the cone or dust-cap. The rest of the spec comparison and specs lead me to believe that the motor, frame, coil and spiders are identical. It's possible that the roll surround is much better behaved at high excursion than the traditional pro type (less noise more linear). If not I don't see a reason to pick the Kraken other than if you want that type of look. The Vortex is higher sensitivity and efficiency with apparently the same amount of excursion and it's a tiny amount lighter. Judging from the cutaway pics it looks like the top plate is about 15mm and the coil is about a 45mm wind height. Coil overhang would give 15mm overhag with no adder. 1/3rd gap adder would put it at 20mm one way which is close to the claimed spec. The coil would leave the gap at 30mm one way. Unless there is a lot of fringe field and overshoot the maximum excursion is done there and also sound horrendously distorted by that point. Of course I'm speculating based on an un-detailed drawing but this should be close. Spiders don't appear to be mirrored. There is mention of a warning system to prevent damage. I believe this is the ring shown under the bottom spider sticking up above the top plate. Looks like the bottom spider will contact this a few mm before the bottom triple joint would contact the top plate. This will probably sound very bad but not be immediately damaging. It looks like the bottom spider triple joint would contact the top plate around 30-32mm in. I'm guessing the spider will contact the ring around 27 or 28mm incursion based on that. Since the coil would leave the gap completely at 30mm I don't think it will be easy to push these drivers that far anyway. Spec wise I think these look good. They have a low Qts and high efficiency. EQ is used on everything these days and the goal is usually more bass from less space. The pricing also looks good especially in multiples. My biggest gripe would really be the 100lb weight followed by the question mark of how bad the inductance is.
  8. Should work fine with 4 8ohm drivers.
  9. Let us know how it goes. On both accounts.
  10. Ricci

    AE Techron

    I did. The old 7560's which I believe were the same as the Crown M600 and a couple of other re-badges. It's been a long time but it was something like 1500w burst into 4 ohm and 1000w for a very long time and would do it at 20Hz. Doesn't seem like much these days. These aren't really amplifiers intended for "music" signals. These are industrial grade equipment for labs, measurements, running motors, MRI's, etc. HEAVY loads. They do audio just fine but are WAY overkill for bumping some music. Kinda like taking a Mack tri-axle dump truck to pick up 100lbs of mulch. I love how they rate their amps and provide all of the engineering specs. Compare their data sheets to those for Behringer or Yamaha amps. This is how gear used to be spec'd. I wish it still was. Amps really should be rated in terms of voltage and current capability into various loads at different frequencies IMHO. A 7810 or 7796 is a monster power source even if some 20lb amps produce more power on paper. The ratings are MUCH different. Yes they are heavy as hell. They have to be. You'll never get this type of ruggedness and sustained power output out of a 20lb amp. If I was filthy rich I'd have a stack of these installed on 3 phase to run the subs, just because.
  11. Same. I was looking at a pair of 18IPAL's or a single 21IPAL and came across these. Stilling havent decided but 18's and 4ohms would be easier to power. Just looks like the accordion surround verse foam. One weighs more than the other(foam) which causes a lower Fs. Nothing special like the NSW.
  12. peniku8

    Vortex & Kraken

    Yea, which would be more expensive than a 21DS115 here. US imports are crazy expensive in Europe.
  13. klipsch

    Vortex & Kraken

    There's the even cheaper route as well https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-pss555-8-21-pro-subwoofer-with-45”-voice-coil-8-ohm--295-050
  14. peniku8

    Vortex & Kraken

    Seen this a few days ago, but it didn't quite impress me. Especially since it'll be more expensive for me than a 21IPAL and well.. ferrite magnets are unattractive to me.
  15. ErnieM

    Vortex & Kraken

    Vortex is 2/3rds the price of the NSW6021, weighs 105lbs vs. 48lbs, inductance is higher, the fabric suspension looks a little shallow for 21mm xmax, 5" vs 6" coil. Not a good trade off imo. The Kraken makes more sense with the foam surround for HT/Car or installs.
  16. What would anyones thoughts be on running 4 of these drivers from a SAE pcm20 amplifier? Thanks
  17. Interesting the difference looks to be the surround; vortex = cloth, Kraken=foam. Foam should perform better (more linear) but early foam surrounds decayed and it should be kept out of the sun. I am a bit surprised they are ferrite as the magnet will be heavy.
  18. klipsch

    Vortex & Kraken

    Guess I should have linked the Kraken as well https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-hts545he-4-kraken-21-high-excursion-subwoofer-with-5-voice-coil-4-ohm--295-054 Thiele-Small Parameters Resonant Frequency (Fs)26.3 Hz DC Resistance (Re)3.8 ohms Voice Coil Inductance (Le)8.5 mH Mechanical Q (Qms)7.9 Electromagnetic Q (Qes)0.29 Total Q (Qts)0.28 Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas)6.32 ft.³ Mechanical Compliance of Suspension (Cms)0.054 mm/N BL Product (BL)38.3 Tm Diaphragm Mass Inc. Airload (Mms)676g Maximum Linear Excursion (Xmax)21 mm Surface Area of Cone (Sd)1525 cm² Materials of Construction Cone MaterialTreated Paper Surround MaterialFoam Voice Coil Wire MaterialCopper Voice Coil FormerFiberglass Basket / Frame MaterialCast Aluminum Magnet MaterialFerrite
  19. Quickly searched for "Vortex" and only found two hits here that were not related: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-pss545he-4--vortex-21-pro-subwoofer-with-5-voice-coil-4-ohm--295-052 Looking forward to some hands-on impressions and measurements - seems like a decent price and spec Thiele-Small Parameters Resonant Frequency (Fs)28.8 Hz DC Resistance (Re)3.8 ohms Voice Coil Inductance (Le)8.2 mH Mechanical Q (Qms)7.28 Electromagnetic Q (Qes)0.28 Total Q (Qts)0.27 Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas)7.49 ft.³ Mechanical Compliance of Suspension (Cms)0.06 mm/N BL Product (BL)35.5 Tm Diaphragm Mass Inc. Airload (Mms)511.2g Maximum Linear Excursion (Xmax)21 mm Surface Area of Cone (Sd)1590 cm² Materials of Construction Cone MaterialTreated Paper Surround MaterialCloth Voice Coil FormerFiberglass Basket / Frame MaterialCast Aluminum Magnet MaterialFerrite
  20. peniku8

    AE Techron

    Afaik Ricci had two of their older models, which were identical to some Crown amp. I think you can combine multiple of those newer amps to gain even greater power. But it‘s pretty apparent that they‘re not designed with moving around in mind
  21. kipman725

    AE Techron

    The power outputs are greater than the most powerful audio amplifiers and they claim to be able to sustain such power output continuously rather than been power supply limited to lower than rated power as high power audio amps are: They are also able to be run in series and or parallel for even greater power output. Other interesting features are voltage or current control mode (with smooth transition between modes) and the very high switching frequency compared to audio amps.
  22. chrapladm

    AE Techron

    What looks impressive about these models other than their weight? Was there a price given on the site or no?
  23. ErnieM

    AE Techron

    I'm sure it would perform very well...I would expect that from a 84lb switcher! Need to get one to Ricci to see it could squeeze more out of the T19's.
  24. I've decided to order one of the cvr d-3002's to see whats up with them. I don't have the equipment to bench test but I can do some a/b listening tests vs my K10. Ill report back
  25. Thank you for clarifying that for me, I will keep on doing what I am doing. SME, thanks again for your input. Phase alignment has been one of the biggest rabbit holes I've fought with over the last few years but I feel I've finally got a reasonably repeatable process that is giving me good results. peniku8, yeah I know know its not ideal but with this covid thing im trying not rack up too much dept for new sound gear. If/when things get back to normal Ill figure out something proper. I dont let anyone touch my gear so not worried about the random factor playing in. I did order one of those cvr amps, ill let you guys know what I think. Doing some bush camping in a couple weeks and taking some gear with me so will be able to ring it out a bit.
  26. kipman725

    AE Techron

    I have on occasion heard rumors of people using these for subs but never confirmed. Specs (and presumably prices) of current models seem impressive: https://aetechron.com/IND-RESEARCH-8500.shtml Also I found this older model which claims to have crown designed amps but offers 5000W @ 0.1% THD into 1 ohm which would be more powerful than the MA5002VZ etc. http://www.aetechron.com/pdf/7700Manual.pdf Any experience with these or other non audio marketed amps?
  27. This would be an interesting design. If you can try to use at least a 6" port for each driver. (180cm2 area). Dual opposing the driver will keep cabinet vibration down from the reciprocating driver mass.
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